Flex Manufacturing

[Inky.Fingers]

Spring gold anneals like normal gold. To anneal, heat the metal to 1200°F for 10 to 15 minutes in an oven or kiln, or bring to a cherry red color for 30 seconds with a torch. Follow this with a quench. This insures that the alloy will respond to age hardening and develop its characteristic durability. You may apply a fire coat to protect against oxidation. To age- harden, heat the metal for one hour in a furnace at 700° F (370° C). Air cool

the metal before pickling. This process is reversible and any heat treated item can be re-softened or re-heat treated after annealing.

[Meltemi]

But would we be able to apply such treatment to a new 14k nib? I am sure we would need to secure the slit somehow. Would it keep its shape after such treatment?

[Frank66]

Spring gold anneals like normal gold. To anneal, heat the metal to 1200°F for 10 to 15 minutes in an oven or kiln, or bring to a cherry red color for 30 seconds with a torch. Follow this with a quench. This insures that the alloy will respond to age hardening and develop its characteristic durability. You may apply a fire coat to protect against oxidation. To age- harden, heat the metal for one hour in a furnace at 700° F (370° C). Air cool

the metal before pickling. This process is reversible and any heat treated item can be re-softened or re-heat treated after annealing.

Thanks InkyFingers, you reminded me when I used to do the annealing and pickling of gold castings way back when I was at school Thanks for reminding me how it is done.

 

But would we be able to apply such treatment to a new 14k nib? I am sure we would need to secure the slit somehow. Would it keep its shape after such treatment?

Meltemi, the heat treatment can be done before nib slitting, In my good old days, heat treatment was done with the gold items encased in casting investment.

[AAAndrew]

In steel pens, they temper the pens first, to get the right about of stiffness or flexibility, and then grind and then slit almost at the end. (a quick dip in the low oven for color, a polish, coating and final polish and it's ready for boxing)

[Frank66]

Vintage gold nibs are a different technology from today's nibs and much of that technology is no longer known. What is known is that a gold nib requires precise working to provide the proper flexibility -- annealing, tempering, and working. Much of this technology requires experience in the handling of the material and very few nibsmiths are around to tell the tale or train replacements.

 

Absent reinventing the proper technology, well, ... very few gold nibs with flex will be made. Now steel dip pen nibs with flex -- that is a much different matter.

 

Enjoy,

 

Randal, the truth is that companies have a strong interest to strive to come up with factory-made, branded, affordable flexible nibs for their fountain pens. That is how the companies have come up for nibs for higher-end pens like Pelikan 1000, the Pilot Falcon, the Bock Titanium nibs, and last but not least the much affordable Noodller's Ahab.

 

In the past more manual labor was more affordable to produce the flexible nibs of the vintage pens we see today. This is probably not the case nowadays, at least in more developed countries, since pen manufacturing is more automated and machine oriented, so the only chance for a pen owner to add flex to a nib is to send it to a nibmeister for added customization.

[Meltemi]

Look at this! Someone remodeled the nib and feed and got a Pilot 74 to write like a wet noodle!

 

Edit: The player does not work, hence the link to the video. For those who are not really into watching videos, here is a small description:

 

This you-tuber turned a Pilot 74 with the standard medium nib into a wet noodle nib! He also modified the feed and the result is just wonderful!

Edited May 14, 2016 by Meltemi

[AAAndrew]

Yeah, I get it, gold and everything, but gold was only brought into the pen equation for one reason, corrosion. If we could solve that and have a nib with the elasticity and strength of a steel nib, you'd have a winner. Also a cheaper nib. They're mass producing steel nibs even today for a few bucks a pop. Couldn't you create a less-corrodable nib, with a tipping for smoothness, but with the elasticity of steel? Why force gold to do what it's not really that good at, bending and springing back into shape?

[Inky.Fingers]

Gold is the bling bling in my wife's eyes. A big fat gold nib gets me too. Why do you think I am hording all the large dip pens?

 

There is truth in all you said, but the bling bling comes first for many of us. Besides, when needs flex when ones able write as well as you do. Go broad, and never look back on the flexies with a penmanship skill as yours.

 

But I am still hoarding those big fat golden flexies.

Edited May 14, 2016 by #InkyFingers

[Frank66]

.There is an interesting discussion currently about this topic also in this subforum https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/308303-adding-flex-to-a-14k-nib-again/page-3

Edited May 16, 2016 by Frank66

[Frank66]

But I would never start a company from scratch. Due to the proffesion of a family member, there are various tools (Even a machine that rolls gold) in my reach. If I find the process I will make some adjustments. It is not my intention to start a company of such size or a company at all.

 

Update:

I have found something very interesting! It is not gold at all! A company has created a memory alloy used in glass frames that is extremely flexible and springs back into shape. The alloy is called "Trilaston" and as it suggests it is highly elastic. At the following video, pay attention at the frame of the glasses. That alloy is stress, shock and corrosion resistant without containing nickel (Which does not really matter at nibs since they do not come in contact with skin). The frame of the glasses in the following video is greatly chubbier than that of nibs yet it is highly elastic! I am very happy with what I found.

 

That alloy is copper-aluminum based and was developed by Aspex Eyewear. It is used in "easytwist" frames. The following video is a demonstration/promo. Take a look.

 

I have made this post also to Adding Flex To A 14K Nib, Again thread https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/308303-adding-flex-to-a-14k-nib-again/page-3 where a discussion about flex nibs is currently raging there too, but my intention was to present this same information here too, I apologize I did not have the time to do so earlier.

 

I agree. Nitinol wrought nickel-titanium alloy (55% Ni-45% titanium) was introduced for orthodontiic purposes back in the early 1970's. The same alloy is also used by endodontists (dentists specialized in root canals) for endodontic files with memory shape. What that means is that a thin wire made from this alloy can be bent elastically and return to its original shape, whereas a wire made of stainless steel would remain permanently deformed. I know all this because I have used them, as I am a dentist. The same alloy was also used for eyeglasses frames.

 

Ni-Ti alloys present high resiliency, which might be a desirable property when used for a flex nib up to a certain point. Alas, according to my experience using these alloys in dentistry, they are too superelastic to be used as nibs, as they may turn out to be way too flexible than required for a flexy nib. Perhaps a different alloy formulation might be needed.

 

There is also the wrought beta-titanium alloy with molybdenum, its mechanical properties fall between stainless steel and Ni-Ti alloys, that is also used for orthodontic wires.

 

There also cast Titanium alloys, like the Ti-6Al-4V alloy, which is the alloy used for quite a few dental implants and implant components, which I guess might be close to the material used by Bock for the Bock titanium nibs, which are semi-flexible nibs. Of course the compositiion of these nibs is a company secret, but these alloys can be difficult to polish, and in some reviews I hear some people using the Bock Titanium nibs complaining about a perceptible amount of scratchiness when using these nibs. To be fair, I have not personally used these nibs but hopefully I am ordering one soon from Beaufort ink UK, and once I have a personal opinion about this, I will post back.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Frank66

[nikhil seenivas]

Look at this! Someone remodeled the nib and feed and got a Pilot 74 to write like a wet noodle!

 

Edit: The player does not work, hence the link to the video. For those who are not really into watching videos, here is a small description:

 

This you-tuber turned a Pilot 74 with the standard medium nib into a wet noodle nib! He also modified the feed and the result is just wonderful!

did some digging,

http://blog.livedoor.jp/nekopen23/archives/28806576.html

if anyone knows japanese that would be helpful. google translate isnt good enough and instructions aren"t given

[Detman101]

On 4/15/2016 at 8:42 AM, Downeastpenz said:

We send space craft out of our solar system into interstellar space, we can make a cheap flexible nib. Ya think??? This isn't rocket science.

Unfortunately, it's America.
Unless some CEO at the top can get a new yacht every year from it...it's not a priority.

[Detman101]

Just look at the "Secretary of DeFlex" nib and the ones that Ralph Reyes makes...
These guys charge +140$ for a steel Jowo nib unit that costs less than 20$, because they cut 4 slits on it.

Jowo should wake up and start doing this on their own since they already make nibs anyway!!
They would charge waaaaay less (maybe up to 30) and they would sell like pancakes!!

What we need is a company that uses standard Jowo nib units (like Namisu or Edison) to drop them a note that people want this. The manufacturers only listen to what their distributors and retail companies tell them. The little end-users like us don't have a say...unfortunately.

[OCArt]

Detman101, I can't easily read your text, maybe it's because I'm not using dark mode??

4 hours ago, Detman101 said:

Just look at the "Secretary of DeFlex" nib and the ones that Ralph Reyes makes...
These guys charge +140$ for a steel Jowo nib unit that costs less than 20$, because they cut 4 slits on it.

Jowo should wake up and start doing this on their own since they already make nibs anyway!!
They would charge waaaaay less (maybe up to 30) and they would sell like pancakes!!

What we need is a company that uses standard Jowo nib units (like Namisu or Edison) to drop them a note that people want this. The manufacturers only listen to what their distributors and retail companies tell them. The little end-users like us don't have a say...unfortunately.

 

[sansenri]

41 minutes ago, Detman101 said:

Just look at the "Secretary of DeFlex" nib and the ones that Ralph Reyes makes...
These guys charge +140$ for a steel Jowo nib unit that costs less than 20$, because they cut 4 slits on it.

Jowo should wake up and start doing this on their own since they already make nibs anyway!!
They would charge waaaaay less (maybe up to 30) and they would sell like pancakes!!

What we need is a company that uses standard Jowo nib units (like Namisu or Edison) to drop them a note that people want this. The manufacturers only listen to what their distributors and retail companies tell them. The little end-users like us don't have a say...unfortunately.

you need to remove format (use Tx icon)

 

I believe Jowo sells a flex gold nib for less than $140... check fpnibs

 

 

[Detman101]

35 minutes ago, sansenri said:

you need to remove format (use Tx icon)

 

I believe Jowo sells a flex gold nib for less than $140... check fpnibs

 

 

Thank you. I went back and edited the post, selected all the text and hit the "Tx" button.
I don't see any change on my side because I'm in dark mode...but hopefully it reflected positively on your side?

I will check out FPNibs. Wait...they're the outfit in south america, correct?
I know of them...I cannot afford their products, but they are quality.
If they have a gold flex nib for less than $140 i am going to be a very sad individual. I just spent $240 on a Franklin Christoph 14k nib and had it modified for flex and needlepoint...only to find out it doesn't work for me at all.
The nib bends at the center instead of at the tines so the flex is minimal at best...more of a soft bounce.
My $20 FPR steel ultraflex nib performs better than it....i'm so gutted.
I can't let my wife find out...she will kill me for wasting the money...so I have the nib sitting in a pen appearing to be used...when I will never use it at all.

[sansenri]

1 hour ago, Detman101 said:

Thank you. I went back and edited the post, selected all the text and hit the "Tx" button.
I don't see any change on my side because I'm in dark mode...but hopefully it reflected positively on your side?

I will check out FPNibs. Wait...they're the outfit in south america, correct?
I know of them...I cannot afford their products, but they are quality.
If they have a gold flex nib for less than $140 i am going to be a very sad individual. I just spent $240 on a Franklin Christoph 14k nib and had it modified for flex and needlepoint...only to find out it doesn't work for me at all.
The nib bends at the center instead of at the tines so the flex is minimal at best...more of a soft bounce.
My $20 FPR steel ultraflex nib performs better than it....i'm so gutted.
I can't let my wife find out...she will kill me for wasting the money...so I have the nib sitting in a pen appearing to be used...when I will never use it at all.

works for me

have you written your text in another editor and then copied and pasted?

in that case, copy and paste in notepad first (that gets rid of any formatting) then copy and paste in your post

no, the guys are in Spain, they are not cheap, but their gold nibs are below the $140 mark if I recall, although close.

They used to have a Jowo semiflex 18k nib, does not seem to be on their site now.

 

 

[Karmachanic]

2 hours ago, Detman101 said:

These guys charge +140$ for a steel Jowo nib unit that costs less than 20$,

 

Six cuts for the Secretary de Flex. Then there's the skill to be able to do this beautifully and consistently, as well as the necessary equipment to do so, along with other business overheads.

 

If it was easy more people would be doing it.

 

An FPNibs 14k semi-flex with grind and ebonite feed will cost around $250 plus shipping.

[Detman101]

5 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

 

Six cuts for the Secretary de Flex. Then there's the skill to be able to do this beautifully and consistently, as well as the necessary equipment to do so, along with other business overheads.

 

If it was easy more people would be doing it.

 

An FPNibs 14k semi-flex with grind and ebonite feed will cost around $250 plus shipping.

Ahhh...ok, only 10 dollars more expensive than what I wasted on the F-C nib and nib work.
😔

[A Smug Dill]

On 3/4/2021 at 5:37 AM, Detman101 said:

Unless some CEO at the top can get a new yacht every year from it...it's not a priority.

 

Don't leave it to those (as in CEOs and investors) who don't have the same passion for that subset of a minority of a niche interest in fountain pens, if you don't think helping appealing to their passion for position and/or material trappings is the right win-win approach to getting what you want.

 

On 3/4/2021 at 5:51 AM, Detman101 said:

What we need is a company that uses standard Jowo nib units (like Namisu or Edison) to drop them a note that people want this. The manufacturers only listen to what their distributors and retail companies tell them. The little end-users like us don't have a say...unfortunately.

 

So stop being only a little end-user, start your own company and be that CEO, if you're convinced there is a broader market for what you want, enough “little end-users” willing to part with money and hand it over while thanking you for putting something on the market while you financially profit from their custom. If you're right, you'll get rich (and probably famous, too, at least within these circles), and if you're wrong, you'll lose your shirt and far more than the $240; but, either way, you won't live with the doubt or regret that you didn't get what you want for lack of trying.