Suggestions For Fine Italic Nib (With A Width Less Than 1Mm)

[sakayume]

As the topic title says, I'm looking for a pen with an italic nib (not a stub! it will be used for writing italic) with a width less than 1mm. I usually write italic in my notebook with an x-height of about 3mm (8mm line spacing means that any larger looks very odd if I don't skip lines) and recently, perusing Benson's The First Writing Book has me convinced that my current nib, a Prera CM, is much too fat for the x-height I use. Hence, are there any factory italic nibs that come in narrower widths? I'm aware of Aurora, but it seems like that one would be similar in width to the Prera CM. The 1.1 nibs of Lamy etc are wider than Prera's CM, so they're not in consideration at all. I'm not really interested in a custom ground nib at the moment as it seems like it would be an expensive proposition for something I don't write regularly.

 

I also have an old Platignum lettering set I appropriated from my mother, who in turn seems to have had it from a brother, but some of the nib collars have cracked and the squeeze filler doesn't seem to take up much ink. I've thought about using dip pens, but I'd rather not if there are other options as a fountain pen is much more convenient as I don't write long passages at a time, and decent calligraphy supplies are hard to come by here.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Noihvo]

It seems to me that you have two choices:

1. Italix Pens have nibs that out of the box (their Fine Italic) are advertised as 0.65 mm wide, and it is a well known and appreciated brand.
2. If you only write for short sessions, rarely and/or irregularly, I think dip pens are not a bad way to go. Besides, it is probably the only way to get the really sharp nibs.

At this day and age, no item is hard to come buy; it is just a question of what you are willing to pay. That is especially the case for our friends Down Under, sadly.

[GeneralSynopsis]

The Manuscript fine is nominally 0.85 mm and the x-fine 0.6mm, though the latter does not seem to be supplied with any of the Classic or Dodec sets, it can be ordered from Cult Pens. Most of the Classic and Dodec sets I see do seem to have the fine.

[sakayume]

It seems to me that you have two choices:

1. Italix Pens have nibs that out of the box (their Fine Italic) are advertised as 0.65 mm wide, and it is a well known and appreciated brand.
2. If you only write for short sessions, rarely and/or irregularly, I think dip pens are not a bad way to go. Besides, it is probably the only way to get the really sharp nibs.

At this day and age, no item is hard to come buy; it is just a question of what you are willing to pay. That is especially the case for our friends Down Under, sadly.

 

Thanks. I guess that's part of my problem, I don't mind buying an expensive item but I don't want to buy an overpriced item, and I'd rather not pay lots of postage for a small item like a dip pen nib. If I can cobble together enough other items I'll order the Brause italic nibs I've been eyeing. But so far I've had trouble getting the ink flowing with straight edged dip pen nibs.

 

The Manuscript fine is nominally 0.85 mm and the x-fine 0.6mm, though the latter does not seem to be supplied with any of the Classic or Dodec sets, it can be ordered from Cult Pens. Most of the Classic and Dodec sets I see do seem to have the fine.

 

 

Thanks for the suggestion. You've reminded me I actually have a couple of Manuscript calligraphy sets from ages ago, which I'd totally forgotten about as I couldn't get the included converter to take up ink. I'll have to dig them up and see if there's a fine or even an extra fine in the sets.

[sakayume]

I found and inked one of my Manuscript pens with the fine italic nib, but it's wider than the Prera CM. However, the Platignum fine is perfect, notwithstanding the cracked collar, as is the #5 dip nib. For the moment, it seems I'm back to the good old Platignum, even though it's on its last legs.

Prera on the left, Platignum fine on the right, and the same x-height.

 

Edited March 28, 2016 by candide

[grainweevil]

There is a Pilot Plumix with a fine italic nib around 0.7mm (and even an extra fine, iirc), but dunno whether you could get hold of one where you are.

[sakayume]

There is a Pilot Plumix with a fine italic nib around 0.7mm (and even an extra fine, iirc), but dunno whether you could get hold of one where you are.

 

 

Thanks for the suggestion, the Pilot Plumix sounds perfect as I'd be able to swap the nib into the Prera. I'll have to see if I can find any for sale on the internet with reasonable postage costs.

[brunico]

There is a Pilot Plumix with a fine italic nib around 0.7mm (and even an extra fine, iirc), but dunno whether you could get hold of one where you are.

 

The Prera CM is the same as the standard Plumix nib, which is an M. Pilot, however, says this is 0.58mm and the F a 0.44mm. There's also an EF Plumix as well as the B and BB, but they're hard to source.

 

Candide, don't pay any attention to measurements, as there are several different things people could be measuring, and no one ever says what. Even if someone has accurately measured the width of their downstroke, their measurement will be completely useless unless you know they're holding the pen at the same angle as you.

 

The Plumix F is noticeably finer than the M, and that's probably as precise as I can say. There's a "fein" on German Amazon.

[grainweevil]

The 0.7mm measurement was based on a sample of writing with Herbin Bleu Myosotis on Midori MD paper from my own Plumix fine at the widest point I could find using vernier callipers. But I'll just save time and go with "noticeably finer" next time.

[brunico]

The 0.7mm measurement was based on a sample of writing with Herbin Bleu Myosotis on Midori MD paper from my own Plumix fine at the widest point I could find using vernier callipers. But I'll just save time and go with "noticeably finer" next time.

 

You're sure those callipers are properly calibrated?

 

Just going by Pilot's own measurements in this photo. I should have made clearer that I wasn't aiming my measurements comment at you. It was just a general observation. I've seen people in angst over whether to get 0.6mm or 0.65mm - they may have amazing eyesight, but I suspect they have no idea what a millimetre is - and I've seen a nib measured twice what someone else has measured it. Some people measure somewhere on the nib rather than the line itself.

 

If 0.7mm is the F at the widest point, then a typical italic downstroke (and cross-stroke) will be near enough 0.44mm wide (with the pen held at 45 degrees). Maybe that's what Pilot is measuring? After all, their BB is close to a 1.5mm nib, but Pilot measure it as 1.0mm.

Edited March 28, 2016 by brunico

[LizB]

This is all really useful info - thanks guys. I have a Pluminix (the little ones) with a M nib which is fantastic nib in a really cheap rubbish pen. I'm really tempted by the Italix fine nib pens, they look good too. I don't want another great nib in a rubbish pen.

[grainweevil]

Having got on my high horse, I'm now going to fall get off it again with some embarrassment.

 

Moved to look again at my writing sample I remembered I am now an owner of a shiny Belomo 12x loupe, and did the job with rather more care.* Alas, at least a tenth of a millimetre has seemingly been lost to Age, and I revise my 0.7mm measurement to somewhere between 0.5 and 0.6. My 'pologies. I have to remind myself that the Mk1 eyeball is not what it was. So in short, to sum up, it's noticeably finer.

 

*If you're tempted to try this at home, take time to fully appreciate the fun you're having juggling your notebook, light source, callipers, and loupe. Plan ahead and invite friends round for the amusing entertainment it provides...

[Randal6393]

Hi, candide,

 

Glad you enjoy the Platignum so well. That was my first pen set, over 35 years ago. Still one of the best IMHO. EBay routinely carries offers for Platignum nibs and sets, New Old Stock. So maybe a turn or two on eBay ...

 

As far as using 1.1 mm nibs, think you are underrating the beauty of the hand. I routinely write italic at 2 mm with 1.1 nibs. No problems with legibility, beauty, or ease of writing. Of course, a fair amount of practice went into learning to do that.

 

Enjoy,

[ac12]

Nemosine has a 0.6 and 0.8mm nib. I don't know how well they write.

[TSherbs]

Nemosine has a 0.6 and 0.8mm nib. I don't know how well they write.

These, in my experience, are rather stubby (not sharp-edged or thin on the cross-stroke).

[shea2812]

This is all really useful info - thanks guys. I have a Pluminix (the little ones) with a M nib which is fantastic nib in a really cheap rubbish pen. I'm really tempted by the Italix fine nib pens, they look good too. I don't want another great nib in a rubbish pen.

 

Before Pilot made them Plumixes and Pluminixes they fit those nibs in Pilot Calligraphy. Materials used for the bodies are far superior to current Plumix I believe. But sadly they are no more being made. I have a few in F and one each of M, B and BB. The section and feed cannot quite handle the BB that requires more inkflow. Use my M and B in Metro body. They are great. If the F is acceptable then the best way to use as a carry about FP is to house that nice F italic stub in a Metro or MR.

[brunico]

Before Pilot made them Plumixes and Pluminixes they fit those nibs in Pilot Calligraphy. Materials used for the bodies are far superior to current Plumix I believe. But sadly they are no more being made.

 

It's the same material as the Penmanship, which is still being made. Just to caution that many sellers still advertise the stock photo of this old Plumix version but only have the squidlike version in stock.

[sakayume]

Thanks for all the suggestions! Grainweevil, thanks for your efforts with your vernier callipers and loupe. And Brunico, thank you for pointing me towards amazon.de. I'd had a look at amazon.uk, but hadn't thought to also check the German site.

 

Randal6393, I began my italic journey with the Platignum too. I'm watching ebay for a replacement set, and also looking at the Osmiroids.

[GeneralSynopsis]

Measuring the line widths produced by the Manuscript nibs on bristol board I get F (nominally 0.85) gives ~0.75x~0.25mm (thick, thin strokes), XF (nominally 0,6) ~0.6x~0.2, Drawing and Music nib (really a soft fine italic) ~0.6x~0.25mm

Edited March 28, 2016 by GeneralSynopsis

[sakayume]

I had a look at the Manuscript pens in the art store today (they didn't have any extra fines though, unsurprisingly) and the current fine nibs look narrower than the one I inked at home, strangely. I definitely got thick strokes wider than 0.75mm.