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To Waterman Carène Owners

ink blots waterman carene carene

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72 replies to this topic

#21 RMN

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 14:01

Yep. If that's ink, then you must have stored the pen in a large ink bottle.

 

in my opinion this is corrosion.

 

I don't know Goiania, but my guess is, that it's a warm and humid environment. This might explain the corrosion.

 

 

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#22 TSherbs

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 14:18

I would suspect corrosion from an external cause.



#23 Ghost Plane

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 16:02

Warm and humid isn't sufficient. Mine are 2 blocks from the beach in Florida where the salt gets to everything and still intact. Plus I had mine around everything from JP-8 to assorted solvents. Now granted mine lived in my uniform, a case, or a ziplock baggie much of the time I was in the hangar or deployed. Nor did desert tours have much effect other than the usual UV fade.

 

I confess to being flummoxed, but I'm not a metallurgist.



#24 marcelo

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 19:31

not expert here, but I'm seeing corrosion. Has this been stored in a leather pen case, (tanning solutions), or airtight with celluloids? 
from what I know, Waterman ink would not do this. Because I see green corrosion at the edge of the body, not just trim, I doubt it's a defect of the trim.
I'm sure it can be restored, but if it's returned to the same environment that caused it the issue will return.


Hi pen2paper.

Yes, it's been stored in a leather case, but sitting on a felt, that covers the inside of the case.

Edited by marcelo, 19 March 2016 - 19:50.


#25 marcelo

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 19:34

Yep. If that's ink, then you must have stored the pen in a large ink bottle.
 
in my opinion this is corrosion.
 
I don't know Goiania, but my guess is, that it's a warm and humid environment. This might explain the corrosion.
 
 
D.ick


Hi D.ick!

Not more humid than a place where it rains regularly for a good part of the year, but dry as a desert for 4, 5 months.

#26 pen2paper

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 01:26

To be conversationally helpful, since we're among those who appreciate Carene, but understanding my thoughts are not expert..

You have some options.

.

Your dates suggest 7+ or so years of good service? with the marks developing. You may opt to enjoy it as is, if its function still pleases you.

 

Alternately, you could opt to have the furniture trim restored at some labor, cost. However if you don't alter the environment that caused the issue, possibly contained in damp with chemical leach fumes from leather tanning, the marks will likely return at cost loss of restoration.

 

I'll stop there, hoping those with more exacting solutions chime in.



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#27 pajaro

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 01:41

I would start searching in ebay and in the classifieds for parts, cap, barrel, whatever you need.  I got a black barrel and a black cap that way and just added a section to make up a pen.  Black is probably easier to find than that sand color, though.  Dutchpen in the classifieds, pen parts might have something.  You might find a part here and there.  Perhaps you might eventually find a cap and barrel of a different color and make a change.  


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#28 Ghost Plane

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 14:17

Sand was a limited edition color, so there will be less of those. But there ARE a fair amount of used pens come up regularly since they are so indestructible on the whole. Frankly, I'd keep using it, but then I love my good pens wrinkles, gray hair and all.  :wub:



#29 pajaro

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 18:51

Looking at your pen I think GP has the right idea.  Keep using the pen and just think of the spots as a customization.  Leopard spots, something like that.  Camouflage on a desert isle.


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They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes and a touch of Old Glory too . . .


#30 marcelo

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 14:25

Looking at your pen I think GP has the right idea.  Keep using the pen and just think of the spots as a customization.  Leopard spots, something like that.  Camouflage on a desert isle.

 

I agree, pajaro.  :)



#31 marcelo

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 14:25

Sand was a limited edition color, so there will be less of those. But there ARE a fair amount of used pens come up regularly since they are so indestructible on the whole. Frankly, I'd keep using it, but then I love my good pens wrinkles, gray hair and all.  :wub:

Thank you, Ghost Plane. Makes sense to me.  ;)


Edited by marcelo, 21 March 2016 - 14:30.


#32 marcelo

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 14:29

To be conversationally helpful, since we're among those who appreciate Carene, but understanding my thoughts are not expert..

You have some options.

.

Your dates suggest 7+ or so years of good service? with the marks developing. You may opt to enjoy it as is, if its function still pleases you.

 

Alternately, you could opt to have the furniture trim restored at some labor, cost. However if you don't alter the environment that caused the issue, possibly contained in damp with chemical leach fumes from leather tanning, the marks will likely return at cost loss of restoration.

 

I'll stop there, hoping those with more exacting solutions chime in.

Hi pen2paper.

 

You have been so kind, helpful. Thanks!

 

But let me understand, does leather cause this kind of issue? I assume by what you have posted above and before that it is not an uncommon consequence of a pen being in contact with leather, even though the case being covered inside by a kind of felt.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.  :rolleyes:

 

 

Marcelo


Edited by marcelo, 21 March 2016 - 14:30.


#33 RMN

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 15:43

It is known that the lining of boxes, glue, and the chemicals used to cure leather give off fumes that may damage pens.

 

Not every pen has this in the same degree.

 

 

But the fact that it is both on that end piece as on the trim of the cap is a give-away that this is caused by environment, not by ink.

 

It will diminish the resale value of the pen, but not it's usability. To write with, it will stay the same pen you always enjoyed. It has got it's spots, like I see forming on my hands, gradually. :)

 

 

Enjoy your pen

 

 

D.ick


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KEEP SAFE, KEEP INSIDE, KEEP A DISTANCE.

 

Freedom exists by virtue of self limitation.

 

 

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#34 graystranger

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 16:51


But let me understand, does leather cause this kind of issue? I assume by what you have posted above and before that it is not an uncommon consequence of a pen being in contact with leather, even though the case being covered inside by a kind of felt.

 

 

There are a number of different leathers, depending on how they are tanned. Chrome tanned leather is very very common and used a lot. The residual acids in this leather will corrode brass, aluminum, and probably other metals over time. That is the reason that old military issue leather items have green corrosion around the brass rivets, snaps and other fittings. I know that vegetable tanned leather does not do this. If the leather storage case was made by a reputable manufacturer (like Aston) I doubt that this would occur. But, if not, corrosion from leather is possible, and I think it could penetrate felt.

 

I think a quality metal polish could be used on this. It looks like it is a surface condition that may polish away. I'd try a silver polish first, just briefly, and see what it does. To be same, wash off the surface with some soapy water then dry the pen well. Personally, I'd try a jeweler's cloth first. They are not expensive and are used for all kinds of expensive jewelry.

 

I have had my GT trimmed Amber Shimmer Carene for many years and it has shown nothing like this at all.


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#35 TSherbs

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 18:01

I love the wealth of information that other users bring to this site.



#36 marcelo

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 19:43

I love the wealth of information that other users bring to this site.

True.  :thumbup:



#37 marcelo

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 20:40

 

There are a number of different leathers, depending on how they are tanned. Chrome tanned leather is very very common and used a lot. The residual acids in this leather will corrode brass, aluminum, and probably other metals over time. That is the reason that old military issue leather items have green corrosion around the brass rivets, snaps and other fittings. I know that vegetable tanned leather does not do this. If the leather storage case was made by a reputable manufacturer (like Aston) I doubt that this would occur. But, if not, corrosion from leather is possible, and I think it could penetrate felt.

 

I think a quality metal polish could be used on this. It looks like it is a surface condition that may polish away. I'd try a silver polish first, just briefly, and see what it does. To be same, wash off the surface with some soapy water then dry the pen well. Personally, I'd try a jeweler's cloth first. They are not expensive and are used for all kinds of expensive jewelry.

 

I have had my GT trimmed Amber Shimmer Carene for many years and it has shown nothing like this at all.

 

Thank you for the reply and insights!


Edited by marcelo, 21 March 2016 - 22:26.


#38 Force

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 16:11

This is mild corrosion compared to a pair of Carene Sea Garden pens (FP & RB) I purchased before my FPN membership commenced. Both pens had deep corrosion on cap clips, cap bands and the tassies. They had been kept in a Waterman leather pouch all their lives, which had deformed to their profiles, which itself must have been kept in a damp environment. I wish that I had taken photographs but then time was of the essence and the set were returned to the ebay seller the very same day they arrived. They never appeared on ebay again to my knowledge.

 

The corrosion on your pen looks to be sulphurous which does happen on silver and silver plated products.

 

My wife has a L'Etalon BP which she keeps in a leather pouch. I clean it regularly to ensure that it does not deteriorate. But then again it is kept in a fairly dry environment.



#39 RMN

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 21:35

This is mild corrosion compared to a pair of Carene Sea Garden pens (FP & RB) I purchased before my FPN membership commenced. Both pens had deep corrosion on cap clips, cap bands and the tassies. They had been kept in a Waterman leather pouch all their lives, which had deformed to their profiles, which itself must have been kept in a damp environment. I wish that I had taken photographs but then time was of the essence and the set were returned to the ebay seller the very same day they arrived. They never appeared on ebay again to my knowledge.

 

The corrosion on your pen looks to be sulphurous which does happen on silver and silver plated products.

 

My wife has a L'Etalon BP which she keeps in a leather pouch. I clean it regularly to ensure that it does not deteriorate. But then again it is kept in a fairly dry environment.

 

 

Hi Force, long time no see... Missed you...

 

 

Would you know if leather could have sulfur in it? Or could that have been from a rubber sack from another pen kept in the same etui?

 

 

D.ick


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KEEP SAFE, KEEP INSIDE, KEEP A DISTANCE.

 

Freedom exists by virtue of self limitation.

 

 

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#40 marcelo

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 22:14

not expert here, but I'm seeing corrosion. Has this been stored in a leather pen case, (tanning solutions), or airtight with celluloids? 

from what I know, Waterman ink would not do this. Because I see green corrosion at the edge of the body, not just trim, I doubt it's a defect of the trim.

I'm sure it can be restored, but if it's returned to the same environment that caused it the issue will return.

 

Your help and insights are truly appreciated, pen2paper. Thanks!







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