Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies


Registration on the Fountain Pen Network

Dearest Visitor of the little Fountain Pen Nut house on the digital prairie,

Due to the enormous influx of spammers, it is no longer possible to handle valditions in the traditional way. For registrations we therefore kindly and respectfully request you to send an email with your request to our especially created email address. This email address is register at fountainpennetwork dot com. Please include your desired user name, and after validation we will send you a return email containing the validation key, normally wiithin a week.

Thank you very much in advance!
The FPN Admin Team






Photo

Sailor Music Vs Lamy 1.1, 1.5, 1.9 Nibs

sailor lamy music stub nibs

35 replies to this topic

#1 A4Skyhawk

A4Skyhawk

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 16 March 2016 - 20:07

I currently have a Lamy Safari and the Lamy 1.1, 1.5, and 1.9 mm stub nibs.  I am interested in trying out the 1911 large

Sailor with music nib and was looking for a photo comparison of writing samples vs that of the Lamy nibs but did not find any

searching the web.

If anyone has these nibs, could you please post a pic showing the line variation of the Sailor music nib vs the Lamy

stubs (all 3 if you have them) - if possible, with the same ink and paper (I know - picky, picky, picky).  I am especially

interested in seeing how the line widths of the music nibs compare with the line widths of the Lamy's nibs.

TIA,

Bill


Edited by A4Skyhawk, 16 March 2016 - 20:08.


Sponsored Content

#2 KaB

KaB

    Tsukiyonist

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,277 posts
  • Location:Antwerp, Belgium
  • Flag:

Posted 16 March 2016 - 23:40

Can't help you but I'm very curious to see this comparison too.

fpn_kab_tsuki_yo_most_boring_212x150.gif  Current rotation: home: Lamy Al-star 1.5, GvFC Moss Green; Lamy Vista 1.1, Diamine Oxblood; Sheaffer Touchdown 0.6, Sailor Kin-Mokusei

Case: Visconti HS EF, Sailor Kin-Mokusei; Estie 2314M, R&K Alt-Goldgrün; Lamy Studio 1.1, Diamine Ochre 


#3 majolo

majolo

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 230 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 18 March 2016 - 00:34

I can't compare them either, but just want to say I'm also interested to know.



#4 pepsiplease69

pepsiplease69

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 992 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 18 March 2016 - 02:05

Sorry I don't have any pictures, but what I can say is the following:

 

The broad strokes on the Sailor music nib would probably be more comparable to the 1.5 italic lamy nib.

 

The cross stroke on a sailor music nib, as is, are not very fine, so it doesn't give you a lot of line variation.

 

I believe the Lamy 1.5 nib will give you more line variation than the sailor music nib.

 

I've gotten my sailor music nib sharpened by Masuyama, so, even if I do a writing sample between a Lamy 1.5 and a sailor music, it won't reflect what a stock sailor nib performs like.



#5 A4Skyhawk

A4Skyhawk

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 18 March 2016 - 02:23

Thanks for the reply.  I intend to use the Sailor/Music for writing on legal spacing.  My Lamy/1.5 nib actually measures 1.63 mm w/ calipers.  As is, it definitely writes broader than what I would like, but does make a fine horiz. line.  Eventually, I will gain the courage to take some material off to reduce it to 1.5 mm, though.

However, your modified Music nib might be what I'm after.  If possible, could you show a writing sample?  Alone or side-by-side with a Lamy/1.5?  Might you have a measurement of the width of the Music?

TIA,

Bill   


Edited by A4Skyhawk, 18 March 2016 - 02:24.


#6 tinta

tinta

    otthon vagyok

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,891 posts
  • Location:in the "boonies",...North of the Big Smoke
  • Flag:

Posted 18 March 2016 - 02:50

I can only vouch for two of the nibs the original poster mentioned: the Lamy 1.1 & the smaller but similar 14K Sailor Music nib.  

    

Out of the box,  the untipped Lamy 1.1 nib showed a lot more line-width-variation than the Sailor factory Music nib.   The Lamy 1.1 seemed surprisingly stub-like for an inexpensive stainless nib.   The Sailor Ms nib tried hard to be like a big stub, but did not succeed as a versatile daily writer.  

 

Before sending my Sailor 1911S pens (each fitted with a 14K Ms nib) for regrinding, I tried first to write with each Music nib,  just as it came out of the box.  I was hoping to find a winner among them, a factory nib I could keep.

Compared to an expertly ground stub or cursive italic, the Sailor Ms nib seemed without character.   While this style of nib may be very good at writing musical notation, I don't think it is really intended for writing Western script. 

 

However, the Sailor Ms makes an excellent starting point for nib customization.  There's a big chunk of tipping material available on these traditional two-tine nibs.   Every edged Sailor nib I own by Mr Mottishaw or Mr. Masuyama has started out as a 14K Ms nib.  At present I have five such nibs in my stable,  from 0.6 mm to 1.1 mm.      I'm very pleased with them all.

 

The overall shape & width of the tipping is very similar on both Sailor nib series (14K & 21K); the body sizes of the nibs of course differ.   More than likely,  the writing characteristics of the 21K Ms nib would be similar to the 14K Ms.  Perhaps the 21K nib would be a little less stiff.

 

My 0.02 CAD.   Other folks experience may differ. 

Cheers.


Edited by tinta, 18 March 2016 - 19:26.

*Sailor 1911S, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *1911S blue "Colours", 14c. H-B "M" BLS (PB) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Pro-Gear Slim Spec. Ed. "Fire",14c. (factory) "H-B" *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm stubs (PB) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. stub (PB) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub

#7 A4Skyhawk

A4Skyhawk

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 18 March 2016 - 03:23

Thanks for all that info.  I was expecting that the Sailor Music would be bigger than the Lamy 1.1.

Sure would like to see a comparo of your 5 modded Sailors against the Lamy 1.1 if you have the time.

TIA,

Bill 



#8 pepsiplease69

pepsiplease69

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 992 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 18 March 2016 - 16:01

Thanks for the reply.  I intend to use the Sailor/Music for writing on legal spacing.  My Lamy/1.5 nib actually measures 1.63 mm w/ calipers.  As is, it definitely writes broader than what I would like, but does make a fine horiz. line.  Eventually, I will gain the courage to take some material off to reduce it to 1.5 mm, though.

However, your modified Music nib might be what I'm after.  If possible, could you show a writing sample?  Alone or side-by-side with a Lamy/1.5?  Might you have a measurement of the width of the Music?

TIA,

Bill   

 

 

I'll try to post a writing sample this weekend. I might also be able to find a notebook where I wrote with the un-modified sailor nib before I had it ground down.

 

Just as a general rule of thumb I try to stick with the 7mm ruling size for 1.5 italic nibs (these could be Kaweco, Lamy, Goulet, Franklin Christoph, any 1.5). When using a 1.9 nib I step up to the 8mm ruling size, but I try to keep a margin there, if the flow is too wet, I know I might need to adjust by selecting a larger ruling size since the nib will write broader. Some might say that's too cramped, but here's what my writing looks like.

 

fpn_1434072127__medieval_layout_scaled.j

 

I can't remember which nib is this one, but I'm writing on a 7mm ruled Miquelruis notebook so it has to be a 1.5 nib of some sort.



#9 A4Skyhawk

A4Skyhawk

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 18 March 2016 - 16:34

Excellent!  Thanks for your followup.  When you write as neatly as you do, it doesn't looked cramped. 

I'm new to this hobby.  Started out just wanting to improve my handwriting.  Found the Palmer method, then landed on legal ruling (8.73 mm) as a comfortable fit for my hand.  Still experimenting.

Like your "jig".  Can't count the number of times that I made a jig to get something made/done.  Sometimes, got as much satisfaction making the jig as I did from the finished project.  I've found jigs in my cellar that I now don't remember what I used it for - lol.



#10 pen2paper

pen2paper

    arty o the irst art

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,966 posts

Posted 18 March 2016 - 18:29

What a surprising comparison!

I've always thought the 14K music nib must, (having test driven a Mottishawed cursive italic VP several times), be superior to the humble Safari steel 1.5, or 1.1 I use everyday.

 

Thanks for the notebook shot. What is the very nice black ink please?



emoticon-animal-007.gif~Hi! fountain pen enthusiast here~


#11 tinta

tinta

    otthon vagyok

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,891 posts
  • Location:in the "boonies",...North of the Big Smoke
  • Flag:

Posted 18 March 2016 - 19:47

You may find this table helpful when comparing nib widths:   http://www.nibs.com/...ngSizespage.htm

Lamy is not represented here, but you'll still get a good picture of some of the nibs out there.

 

Writing quality will of course vary from nib to nib, whether the nib is used out of the box, is "optimized", or modified (reground). 

Optimization is explained here: http://www.nibs.com/...ptimization.htm

A number of reliable pen sellers offer this type of service, sometimes under different names.

:)


Edited by tinta, 18 March 2016 - 19:48.

*Sailor 1911S, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *1911S blue "Colours", 14c. H-B "M" BLS (PB) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Pro-Gear Slim Spec. Ed. "Fire",14c. (factory) "H-B" *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm stubs (PB) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. stub (PB) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub

#12 pepsiplease69

pepsiplease69

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 992 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 18 March 2016 - 19:52

Excellent!  Thanks for your followup.  When you write as neatly as you do, it doesn't looked cramped. 

I'm new to this hobby.  Started out just wanting to improve my handwriting.  Found the Palmer method, then landed on legal ruling (8.73 mm) as a comfortable fit for my hand.  Still experimenting.

Like your "jig".  Can't count the number of times that I made a jig to get something made/done.  Sometimes, got as much satisfaction making the jig as I did from the finished project.  I've found jigs in my cellar that I now don't remember what I used it for - lol.

 

 

Okay so I looked back at the posts I made to the "Medieval Text Layout" topic which I started.

 

The nib I used here is a Pelikan M205 italic steel nib with the same treatment from Masuyama (sharpening) as I had gotten done on my Sailor music nibs.

 

Here's a link to that topic if you're interested in the fibonacci gauge which I wrote about there.

 

http://www.fountainp...yout/?p=3382801

 

 

 

What a surprising comparison!

I've always thought the 14K music nib must, (having test driven a Mottishawed cursive italic VP several times), be superior to the humble Safari steel 1.5, or 1.1 I use everyday.

 

Thanks for the notebook shot. What is the very nice black ink please?

 

 

I believe the ink I used here is Aurora Black, although I need to go back and confirm that.



#13 pen2paper

pen2paper

    arty o the irst art

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,966 posts

Posted 18 March 2016 - 21:11

 

 

...

 

 

I believe the ink I used here is Aurora Black, although I need to go back and confirm that.

Please do as time allows.

 

If Aurora, then I only have to refill at my own ink station. Aurora is my favorite black.  



emoticon-animal-007.gif~Hi! fountain pen enthusiast here~


#14 Lamyrada

Lamyrada

    Super Witch

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 580 posts
  • Location:California, Florida
  • Flag:

Posted 18 March 2016 - 22:54

I know I am off topic, but I always thought Music nibs were the widest,  all going around 1,9MM like my Lamy Safari. I realize now, "music", referring to the two tines, has nothing to do with the width of the nib and there are music nibs of lower sizes. I hope I am right on this statement. I am learning along. BTW. I find the lamy nibs to be great.

 

Here is my 1.9mm Lamy  alongside a F-C music nib. Not a sailor, but similar width.Lamy%20vs%20Music%20Nib_1070_zpsncjq5tii


Edited by Lamyrada, 19 March 2016 - 00:06.


#15 A4Skyhawk

A4Skyhawk

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 19 March 2016 - 02:40

 

 

Okay so I looked back at the posts I made to the "Medieval Text Layout" topic which I started.

 

The nib I used here is a Pelikan M205 italic steel nib with the same treatment from Masuyama (sharpening) as I had gotten done on my Sailor music nibs.

 

Here's a link to that topic if you're interested in the fibonacci gauge which I wrote about there.

 

http://www.fountainp...yout/?p=3382801

Clever - who needs a calculator.  Something else to make my writing more presentable!

Bill

P.S. - Can you please describe what Mr. Masuyama did to your Sailor Music nibs?  Does "sharpening" make it an italic, or CI, or stub?


Edited by A4Skyhawk, 19 March 2016 - 03:19.


#16 tinta

tinta

    otthon vagyok

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,891 posts
  • Location:in the "boonies",...North of the Big Smoke
  • Flag:

Posted 19 March 2016 - 16:44

 

 

Here is my 1.9mm Lamy  alongside a F-C music nib. Not a sailor, but similar width.Lamy%20vs%20Music%20Nib_1070_zpsncjq5tii

The Sailor Music nib is only 1.15 mm. wide (from the factory).  There is a really big jump in width from the Sailor Ms to the JoWo (F-C) 1.9 three tine Music nib. 

For curiosity's sake I bought an F-C Music nib when they first became available,  but I have since passed it on. 

I found it laying down too thick (wide) of a line.  OK for printing large size letters but not very convenient for cursive hand. :(


*Sailor 1911S, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *1911S blue "Colours", 14c. H-B "M" BLS (PB) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Pro-Gear Slim Spec. Ed. "Fire",14c. (factory) "H-B" *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm stubs (PB) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. stub (PB) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub

#17 Sandy1

Sandy1

    Minty

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,902 posts
  • Location:Voodoo Convent

Posted 19 March 2016 - 17:25

Hi,

 

Originals are 30x60mm.

 

> Sailor 1911M + MS nib - from my comparo of Sailor Jentle Sky High to Pilot kon-peki :

894b6834.jpg

 

> Non-Nudist Pink Safari + 1.1 - from my IR of Aurora Blue :

c279df14.jpg

 

 

 

 

In addition to the scans above, those Topics include NIB-ism samples, more written samples, and the same atrocious handwriting.

 

It seems the two-tine Sailor MS nib has a great amount of tipping material, so under the hand of a master craftsman can be reshaped and tuned to a greater extent than most Broad nibs and three-tine MS nibs.

 

Bye,

S1


Edited by Sandy1, 19 March 2016 - 17:31.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#18 Berelleza

Berelleza

    Master of Zero

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 757 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Flag:

Posted 19 March 2016 - 18:01

Yes, "Tinta" that is precisely my point. These two pens are not for regular writing and that is why I declined using the F-C in favor of the Lamy. For the price, I can live with a Lamy for my calligraphy practice. No big difference and one is paying for the enclosure and looks .

I use the 1.9 Lamy for my calligraphy prectice because I don't have to care about how I treat it and if I loose it or brake it; is easily replaceable and affordable. I am attentively following this subject since I would like to be able int he future to have a nice looking music nib pen for everyday, or well, most days... from the samples and explanations found here, looks like the Pilot 74 is my ticket for the future. Hum! Great information here. "Similar widths" referred to comparing both of them side by side.

Edited by Berelleza, 19 March 2016 - 18:10.


#19 A4Skyhawk

A4Skyhawk

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 19 March 2016 - 18:50

You may find this table helpful when comparing nib widths:   http://www.nibs.com/...ngSizespage.htm

Lamy is not represented here, but you'll still get a good picture of some of the nibs out there.

 

Thank you for that excellent reference. 

Bill



#20 tartuffo

tartuffo

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 227 posts
  • Location:Montréal

Posted 20 March 2016 - 04:02

SDt15te.jpgUVjb6TY.jpg


Edited by tartuffo, 20 March 2016 - 04:28.




Reply to this topic



  



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: sailor, lamy, music, stub, nibs



Sponsored Content




|