Real Hero Doctor Jumbos

[k3eax]

James, I understand your point; that being both the "true" J/D and the "regular' that is misrepresented as the J/D may both be packaged in identical blister-packs. This then presents the prospective purchaser with a problem.

[Jamesbeat]

I'm not sure if it is misrepresentation or just that the two pens are made in different factories.

I seem to remember reading something about there being two Hero factories, each producing a different version, but both called the Doctor.

 

Whatever the truth is, we know which one we prefer.

Here is another photo which may help people spot a good one:

http://i66.tinypic.com/2dh692d.jpg

 

This is the method I used when I bought mine; take a look at the distance between the mouth of the posted cap and the clutch ring.

Although the pens are very similar in length when posted, the distance from the mouth of the cap to the clutch ring on a posted pen is different, because it depends on the length of the hood.

 

It's hard to judge the length of the hood from a photo, but the amount of visible barrel between the posted cap and the clutch ring is much easier to judge.

 

Most sellers post photos of the pen with the cap posted, so this is another tool for spotting the desirable model.

 

Edited to add:

Please pay no attention to finish of the cap on the 'bad' pen - it is not standard because I modified it on my lathe.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Jamesbeat

[k3eax]

The pen on the left, with its obviously greater ink capacity, is the only one that in my opinion should be called Doctor. James, a photo taken from above the tops would be of interest as it would show the difference in the conical tips.

 

I believe that the Chinese vendors/suppliers have come to realize that adding the words Doctor/Jumbo to a standard 616 is effective in luring purchasers. This what I would expect from a country where some of whose nationals sell tainted baby formula, steal trade secrets, etc.

[Jamesbeat]

Here are the cap ends.

The good pen (top) has a wider cap and a larger tassie.

 

The low quality pen (bottom) has a narrower cap overall, and this cap does not fit the good pen.

 

The cap on the good pen is also better constructed, and has a slot for a screwdriver up inside the plastic inner cap for assembly/disassembly.

 

http://i67.tinypic.com/29uvfbl.jpg

 

Interestingly, something I just noticed is that the good pen has multi-start threads (feels like quadruple-lead) on the barrel, whereas the lower quality one is a regular single start thread.

 

I don't think the Doctor naming problem comes from the vendors, like I said, the lower quality pen also came in Doctor packaging.

They are just selling it by the name that appears on the blister pack, and I don't believe they have nefarious intentions.

 

 

I think the standard 616 is a smaller pen, and the Doctor (aka Jumbo) designation means the larger version, whether good or bad.

 

Whether the lower quality Doctor is a fake, or simply made by Hero but at a different facility is still a mystery.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Jamesbeat

[k3eax]

James, thanks for taking the time to respond and share the photo that clearly shows the difference in the caps' tips. I'm sure that many will access your photos in the future for reference... good job!

 

I remain convinced that the error in describing the pen as Doctor was deliberate; perhaps by the manufacturer intent on deceiving.

 

"Doctor" is a descriptive term used by Asian pen manufacturers to describe a pen of greater ink capacity, not merely seize.

Edited March 7, 2016 by k3eax

[Jamesbeat]

You're most welcome.

 

Note that it's not just a difference in the tips of the caps, the good pen has a more substantial cap overall, and the body of the pen is also noticeably wider.

 

The cap from the bad pen is too narrow to fit the good pen.

[Jamesbeat]

A couple more in case people want to use them for reference.

Note the difference in width of the bodies, and the substantially different filling mechanisms.

 

The filler on the good pen works very well, and you don't need to remove the metal piece and squeeze the bare sac to get a good fill like you have to on the bad pen.

 

The bad pen does fill ok when the above technique is used.

The bad pen has more tipping material than the good one, and is actually a very nice smooth writer, so it's not all bad news.

 

 

http://i66.tinypic.com/2cmordh.jpg

 

 

http://i64.tinypic.com/x28npg.jpg

 

 

http://i66.tinypic.com/10xsh91.jpg

Edited March 7, 2016 by Jamesbeat

[J_MM]

I have 3 doctors that came in 3 individual packages 2 years ago from yespens. They should have a length of 42mm but they are just short of 40mm. Maybe doctor is not

synonymous with the jumbo version.

[Jamesbeat]

I doubt a difference of 2mm is indicative of whether or not the pen is genuine, it's probably more to do with how hard the cap was pushed on when it was measured.

 

I can't recall exactly what the size difference is between the regular and the jumbo, but I'm pretty sure it was more than 2mm.

 

Do your pens match either of the pens I posted photos of?

[J_MM]

Yes, they have the short section.

[Jamesbeat]

In that case, you have the good ones.

All of the other ones (jumbo or regular 616) have the proportionally-longer hood.

[Flounder]

I have 3 doctors that came in 3 individual packages 2 years ago from yespens. They should have a length of 42mm but they are just short of 40mm. Maybe doctor is not

synonymous with the jumbo version.

 

 

I doubt a difference of 2mm is indicative of whether or not the pen is genuine, it's probably more to do with how hard the cap was pushed on when it was measured.

 

I can't recall exactly what the size difference is between the regular and the jumbo, but I'm pretty sure it was more than 2mm.

 

Do your pens match either of the pens I posted photos of?

 

I'm with James on this, and the inner cap will also have an influence on overall length of the pen capped. 2 out of 3 of my 1st batch of 616s had inner caps that wouldn't let the cap clutch reach the rings on the section!

[DustyR]

I'm sorry I don't have time to post pictures, but there is a third version as well (I have all three, unfortunately... ;-). It has the short front section shell like the authentic Hero Jumbo/Doctors, but a pointier nib, cheaper looking feed, the smaller cap jewel and a poorer-fitting clip. The best way I've found to tell the "good" ones from the fake/lesser-quality examples is the inner cap: The good Hero J/D inner cap is thick-walled and looks to be made of fiber-reinforced plastic. In both the lesser pens the inner cap is a thin, cheap-looking pliable cup with protruding fins that position it inside the cap. You can unscrew the top jewels and remove the inner cap to see the difference, or just shine a flashlight down the cap. Side-by-side the difference is unmistakable. I bought a 10-pack of the authentic pens from ebay seller "jewelrymathematics" a couple of months ago.

[DustyR]

Update: One more data point (maybe - it's from a sample of 2... ;-) :

 

I inked up one of the genuine Heroes and one of the almost-identical "lesser" pens and let them each sit two days. The genuine Jumbo Doctor started right up, the other pen requires several strokes, tapping, etc, and even then ran spotty for several lines.

[J_MM]

Update: Just got one from

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/291644428503?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=590677934938&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

It is a fake. Longer section, shorter ink sac and no screw in the cap.

 

But it sure feels like decent quality. I have not inked it up yet.

[edteach]

New to the forum, I have bought a Hero 616 from ebay, just wanted to say this seller is pushing fakes. I got my pen and it does write OK. Has a bit of scratch not bad and the filler system is horrible. I can not get much ink in the unit by pressing the bar. Have to take it off and use like an eye dropper. It cost me 1.36 and when I complained that it was a fake he refunded me. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/252029491192?_trksid=p2057872.m2748.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

I ordered a three pack from Mentag who is said to be the formar YesPen. From his reviews on pen sites he is selling the real deal. They were a bit more 7.50 for three delivered. Which is still cheap.

[Jobesmirage]

Mentag, Laonan, and Jewelerymathematics are the only sellers that I have found reliable from China for Hero pens

[EbonitePen]

Excellent information, much appreciated.

[TSherbs]

Mentag, Laonan, and Jewelerymathematics are the only sellers that I have found reliable from China for Hero pens

 

Who is Laonan? I checked ebay, but found nothing....

[DeanKW]

 

Who is Laonan? I checked ebay, but found nothing....

I believe he is referring to ebay user, "laonan123".

 

http://www.ebay.com/usr/laonan123