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Line Variation

italic stub

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#1 adamselene

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 07:11

I started this fountain pen thing about seven years ago. I had decided I would not worry about Stubbs and italics as things are complicated enough already. Boy do I regret that now.

 

What what are the brands of the pens that offer Stubbs and italics?

 

Cheers,

 

Adam 

 



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#2 Drone

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 08:25

I started this fountain pen thing about seven years ago. I had decided I would not worry about Stubbs and italics as things are complicated enough already. Boy do I regret that now.

 

What what are the brands of the pens that offer Stubbs and italics?

 

Cheers,

 

Adam 

 

 

Hi Adam,

 

There are many modern manufacturers offering stub/italic nibs. Too many for me to simply list off the top of my head. Perhaps you can narrow the list down by telling us what you are looking for in nib size/width & price, etc.

That said...

Many pens that use a standard #6 modern nib (fits a 6mm diameter feed), can take a replacement Jowo brand nib. Goulet Pens sells individual replacement #6 Jowo nibs in all colors and finishes (now including black), including the 1.1mm and 1.5mm stubs. I have several of the Goulet stub nibs, they have all been great writers right out-of-the-box:

http://www.gouletpen...ment-nibs/c/294

If you just want to try out some #6 stubs, buy a compatible yet inexpensive pen to go along with the nibs. The Noodler's Ahab and Konrad pens will take a standard #6 nib, so will the inexpensive Jinhao 159, both are available from Goulet Pens.

 

Browse through the page linked-to above to see many replacement nib options for various pen manufacturers. Many replacement nib offerings include stub/italic sizes. Those replacement nib sizes are usually also available on the pens when you buy them new.
 

Lamy offers replacement nibs for their lower-end pens (e.g., Safari/Vista, Al-Star) that cover 1.1mm through 1.5 mm stubs. The Lamy replacement stub nibs are only available in chrome tone, not black. Lamy nibs may need some smoothing right out-of-the-box. To make an extra buck, many resellers do not sell the Lamy stub nibs on new pens, only separately. But some do sell the stubs on the pens, so look around first. The same goes for the Lamy converters, like the Z24 converter that fits the Safari/Vista & Al-Star pens. Some dealers sell the converters separately, some sell them in the pen. Be careful when buying a Safari. Fake Safari's have been showing up lately on the likes of Ebay. Buy from a reputable Lamy dealer.

 

xFoutainpens sells pens and replacement nibs of all sorts, many have stub nib options (even the low price pens like the Mnemosine line). They have many types/brands of replacement nibs with stub options. The Knox nibs they carry have stub sizes that range from 1.1mm through 1.9mm (Wow!) Here's a link:

 

http://www.xfountainpens.com/

 

Middle tier pen manufacturers that offer stub nibs include, TWSBI, Monteverde, Conklin, Rosetta, Italix, and many others.

 

And the list goes on, and on...

 

Good Luck, David



#3 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 16:17

You don't mention where you are, so we can't direct you to the right nibmeisters.

 

You didn't say what pens you have?

 

Most modern pens being nails or semi-nails make great stubs and CI's. I have a Canadian factory '36 BB nib on a '38 Parker Vac. Also to my vast surprise a maxi-semi-flex Australian Sheafer Snorkel with a factory BB stub. All my '50's German pens are stubbs; semi-flex. Those who made semi-flex nibs like Soenecken, MB, Geha, Osmia, Pelikan, or Kaweco had stubbish nibs to start with.

 

I'd suggest sending off pens in alternating pairs, there is no reason, IMO to have both stub and Cursive Italic through the F-M-B-BB range as I see it as a waste.

Alternate from F to BB. I'd suggest F as stub in the nib is so narrow it won't catch the paper like a CI might, M as CI, B stub and BB as CI. Though if you have two B's a stub and a CI would be nice.

 

Why waste money buying new pens when you might already have pens with the proper widths to make them stub and CI.Very many people have found the fat blobby nib of the modern pen to be real boring, so have gone for some character with stubs and CI.

 

For CI make sure you give your nibmeister a picture of at what angle you hold it, 45-40 or even 35 degrees in the pit of the web of your thumb. Some long or heavy pens rest better there. 

 

I have a CI that feels sometimes like it should have been ground for 40 degrees rather than being held at 45 degrees after the big index knuckle. It is a heavier pen, a Lamy persona with the worlds most boring nail OB, that was made CI, that would feel better at 40 degrees at the start of the web of the thumb than just behind the big index knuckle at 45 degrees.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 21 February 2016 - 16:40.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#4 LizB

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 12:59

Hi, did you get a stub or italic?

 

I have a Lamy 1.1mm nib (in a Safari) and a 1.5mm (Al-Star) and they are both huge fun to use. I have a TWSBI 1.5mm too but that tends to be a bit dry and I've never got as much satisfaction from it.

 

As Drone says, you can also stick a #6 nib in one of many pens - I have a Bock 1.1mm in a Jinhao x750 that I love. The Noodler's Ahab original flex nib will also give a nice line variation to every day writing too.

 

If you just want to have a try, the Lamy Safari route is probably the easiest and cheapest.

 

Edit - see pic - apols, the 1.1mm is an Al-star and the 1.5mm is a Lamy Vista. You can see the Bock 1.1 looks finer and crisper than the Lamy 1.1

 

25838940552_2d1680bf9c_z.jpg

Line variation by Liz, on Flickr


Edited by LizB, 21 March 2016 - 13:15.


#5 Mastiff

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 14:32

I've tried standard stubs from Omas and Visconti, and have been disappointed with both. Perhaps my standards were too high as I was accustomed to Binderised and Mottishawed nibs. To that end, I also recommend having an existing nib modified by a nibmeister. I've also tried customised stubs of various widths, and pretty much settled on 0.6-0.7mm as I found them to be most suitable for daily/business writing, whilst maintaining adequate line variation. I personally found CI to be unsuitable for practical writing.



#6 pepsiplease69

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 16:16

Hi, did you get a stub or italic?

 

I have a Lamy 1.1mm nib (in a Safari) and a 1.5mm (Al-Star) and they are both huge fun to use. I have a TWSBI 1.5mm too but that tends to be a bit dry and I've never got as much satisfaction from it.

 

As Drone says, you can also stick a #6 nib in one of many pens - I have a Bock 1.1mm in a Jinhao x750 that I love. The Noodler's Ahab original flex nib will also give a nice line variation to every day writing too.

 

If you just want to have a try, the Lamy Safari route is probably the easiest and cheapest.

 

Edit - see pic - apols, the 1.1mm is an Al-star and the 1.5mm is a Lamy Vista. You can see the Bock 1.1 looks finer and crisper than the Lamy 1.1

 

 

 

 

 

I've been trying to find some of these Bock italic nibs and not having any luck. Where did you buy your bock 1.1 nibs? Are there any 1.5's (or 1.9's) available from the same place?

 

Thanks in advance.



#7 LizB

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 16:47

I got mine from Beaufort Inks in the UK http://www.beauforti...k/bocknibs.html - they usually have 1.1, 1.5 and 1.9 calligraphy nibs (as well as the usual round nibs)



#8 pepsiplease69

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 19:18

I got mine from Beaufort Inks in the UK http://www.beauforti...k/bocknibs.html - they usually have 1.1, 1.5 and 1.9 calligraphy nibs (as well as the usual round nibs)

 

Thanks for that, I'll check it out.



#9 IpsoLaxoPenoFlip

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 19:52

Liz - Thanks for the wonderful photo. What a great set of comaprisons.



#10 Frank66

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 10:36

 I've also tried customised stubs of various widths, and pretty much settled on 0.6-0.7mm as I found them to be most suitable for daily/business writing, whilst maintaining adequate line variation.

 

Let me add that, without being an authority or anything in fountain pens, I share the same exact opinions as stated in Mastiff's excellent remarks.  Regards, Photios


- Kaigelu 316 Modification (250 #6 Bock Nib / Beaufort Ink Converter)
- Titanium Bock Nib - Kaigelu 316 - Beaufort Ink

- Bock Rollerball Nib In Jinhao 886 Pen - Beaufort Ink Converter

- No affiliation with pen industry, just a pen hobbyist.


#11 ac12

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 02:35

&nbsp;

I started this fountain pen thing about seven years ago. I had decided I would not worry about Stubbs and italics as things are complicated enough already. Boy do I regret that now.
 
What what are the brands of the pens that offer Stubbs and italics?
 
Cheers,
 
Adam 
 

&nbsp;

Nothing to regret. A stub or CI is just a different nib, that gives a certain effect.

I personally use a regular ball nib most of the time and 'occasionally' will pull out a CI nib. For me a stub or CI nib has a time and place to be used, and for me, it is NOT on a daily use pen. This position may also be because my narrowest CI nib is a 1.1mm nib. However others do use a stub as their daily pen.

As has been said, if you have a Lamy Safari, just get a Lamy 1.1 italic nib (about $15) and you are off and running. I use the Lamy 1.1 nib on my Lamy joy, nice combination. The Lamy nib is much easier for a user to change than pulling the nib and feed out of a standard fountain pen, then having to put the feed and new nib back in.

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#12 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 22:45

What is 0.6 or 0.7 in width?....F or M? Sadly I am out of date....and don't see my self taking the time to get up to date.

I do know a 1.5 = BB because I have one. I also have other BB's that are not numbers.

I do have a BBBB that is too wide to use for anything but headlines of a piece of paper....so would think a 1.9 to be real wide....BBB?


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#13 ac12

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 03:19

For stub/CI nibs:
The stub B nib of my Pilot 78G measures about 1.1mm wide. I think the BB ~ 1.5mm
The Sheaffer calligraphy pen that I have; F ~ 1.1mm, M ~ 1.5mm, B ~ 1.9mm

Comparison to a regular nib:
For my Lamy, standard ball nib; XF ~ 0.64mm, F ~ 0.7mm, M ~ 0.8mm.
For my old US Parker nibs; XF ~ 0.46-0.58mm, F ~ 0.51-0.79mm, M ~ 0.71-0.82mm
Not that these are the measured width of the tipping, which does not take into account the profile/shape of the tip. IOW a tip is more like a sphere or oblong, rather than a cylinder. Well except for some of my old Parker nibs, which do have cylindrical or block shaped tipping.

Edited by ac12, 26 March 2016 - 03:26.

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#14 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 21:00

Thanks AC


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#15 brunico

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 22:27

Pilot measures the BB as 1.0mm and the B as 0.7mm. It's anyone's guess what these are measures of and whether they're accurate, and I've never bothered to try and work it out, though it's possible they're the widths of an italic downstroke.

 

For an italic writer, knowing the maximum width isn't particularly illustrative, as the maximum width is most obvious only in a few strokes, such as in k and x: downstrokes and cross-strokes will be about 70% of the maximum width. For people who hold their pen unconventionally - for example, parallel with the writing line - the maximum width will give a clearer picture.



#16 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 12:16

For stubs I like :cloud9: vintage German semi-flex nibs which are stubs in Soennecken, MB, Pelikan, Geha, Osmia and Kaweco....not in Lamy.....and the stubbish semi & maxi-semi-flex obliques are grand. :notworthy1:

I recommend against buying any other obliques other than those of that era and place.

 

Nail or regular flex oblique are only for those who naturally cant the pen in their grip due to left eye dominance. There is no or next to no line variation to be had with a nail or the regular flex. There is lots to be had with semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex of the German pens of the '30-65 era.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#17 kapanak

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 03:25

I have an early 90's Sonnet bold left-foot oblique 18K gold nib, factory made, that writes wonderfully, and while it has very little flex, it is springy, and gives great line variation. I wouldn't use it as a daily writer though.



#18 ac12

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 23:44

&nbsp;

Pilot measures the BB as 1.0mm and the B as 0.7mm. It's anyone's guess what these are measures of and whether they're accurate, and I've never bothered to try and work it out, though it's possible they're the widths of an italic downstroke.
 
For an italic writer, knowing the maximum width isn't particularly illustrative, as the maximum width is most obvious only in a few strokes, such as in k and x: downstrokes and cross-strokes will be about 70% of the maximum width. For people who hold their pen unconventionally - for example, parallel with the writing line - the maximum width will give a clearer picture.

&nbsp;

I just put a caliper on the nib of an itlic nib or the tip of a ball tip nib, and measure how wide it is.

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#19 ac12

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 23:50

&nbsp;

Correction after checking my notes:

For the Sheaffer calligraphy pens that I have; F = 0.99-1.02mm, M = 1.55-1.65mm, B = 2.08mm. So approx F ~ 1.0, M ~ 1.6, B ~ 2.1mm
A little more spread than what I had previously.

I need to compare this to my Vector calligraphy pens.

&nbsp;

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