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Kaigelu 316 - A Little Disappointing

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#1 AndyKeir

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 09:07

I've had a very good run with inexpensive Chinese pens such as Jinhao, Baoer and Wing Sung. I have a couple of dozen such pens and every one has been a winner ... working perfectly from the day they arrived.

I suppose that run had to come to an end sometime and today it did with my newly arrived Kaigelu 316 ... which ironically is a slightly more expensive Chinese cheap pen.

 

The pen looks great ... I love the look and feel of it and wasted no time inking it up with some Pelikan 4001 Turquoise.

The pen wrote very nicely for about a paragraph ... and then dropped a large blob of ink on the page. Looking at the nib I could see another large drop forming but managed to grab a paper towel before it dripped onto the page.

 

Back at my desk I held the pen vertically, nib down, over the open bottle of Pelikan Turquoise and watched as over a period of less than a minute the entire contents of the converter dripped off the nib and back into the bottle.

 

My first reaction was to give the pen a good flush. I did this then repeated the drip test using water rather than ink. Same result ... water gushing out, a full converter emptying in a minute or so.

 

I turned my attention to the converter suspecting an air leak. Dismantled, inspected, silicon greased it, etc. all to no avail.

Next step was to remove the nib and feed.

The nib and feed on these pens are a friction fit so I gripped the section in one hand and the nib in the other using some gripping material and gave a pull. With hardly any effort the nib and feed came out ... complete with the entire feed collar!

The feed collar should be fixed (glued) but on inspection I can see that there might have once been a few molecules of glue waved in the general vicinity.

Using the gripping material I managed to pull the nib and feed out of the collar. Everything looks fine.

 

I suspect that when the converter is screwed into the pen it is pushing the entire feed, nib and collar out of place, possibly resulting in a poor seal/air leak. So my next move will be to glue the feed collar firmly in place with some epoxy.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens. Hopefully I can fix it as currently it is my only unusable pen :(

 

<edited to fix the inevitable typos>


Edited by AndyKeir, 17 February 2016 - 09:11.

Andy sang as he watched and waited 'til his billy boiled ...

(With apologies to Andrew Barton "Banjo" Paterson)


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#2 Frank66

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 10:18

Hi,  I had similar problems with ink leakage with both my Kaigelu 316s. Like you said, the ink converter is screw type, and one needs to make sure that it is securely held on top of the nipple of the nib unit. That may difficult to do, especially since the nib unit of this pen is usually unglued and easily detached from inside the barrel. My problems were partially solved once I made sure I attached / screwed the converter to the nib unit more securely.

 

IMHO, you can use epoxy if you may want to secure the nib unit in place irretrievably, but if you want to be able to retrieve it in the future you may want to try some clear nail polish. Ink may still leak out from other pathways though.  Better than anything else, what worked for me was using a new 250 Bock nib unit (EF nib, stainless steel, two tone nib) and a Beaufort Ink Converter from BeaufortInk, which is the Bock representative in the UK (no affiliation, just a happy customer). I have had no issues with ink leakage with this new converter and nib unit combo.  This was a cheap pen modification (less than $20) and it immensely upgraded  the writing experience with my Kaigelu 316, let alone solving the ink leakage problem.  You may want to take a look at this relevant FPN thread on this topic: http://www.fountainp...-ink-converter/   I hope this was useful.  Regards,

 

Photios


Edited by Frank66, 17 February 2016 - 18:19.

- Kaigelu 316 Modification (250 #6 Bock Nib / Beaufort Ink Converter)
- Titanium Bock Nib - Kaigelu 316 - Beaufort Ink

- Bock Rollerball Nib In Jinhao 886 Pen - Beaufort Ink Converter

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#3 richardandtracy

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 10:49

This is a problem I have had twice. The convertor doesn't seal to the end of the c/c spigot.

 

I cured it by smearing some silicone grease on the convertor threads.

Do check, though, that the nib unit housing is not cracked. The plastic can crack and produce the same symptoms. Look for this as a crack radially into the c/c spigot.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.



#4 AndyKeir

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 20:16

Thanks to both of you for your informative replies ... much appreciated.

 

Photios,

Yes, I had second thoughts about using epoxy. I wouldn't have thought about using clear nail varnish. I tend to be a bit cautious of volatile solvents with any sort of plastic but if you've used it without a problem I'll do the same.

I will also look into the Bock nib unit solution ... thanks for that. Unfortunately the shipping cost of overseas goodies to Australia can be a bit severe however I have family in the UK who can probably assist.

 

Richard,

Thanks for your advice. I have examined the nib collar and there are no cracks.

I fitted the supplied converter onto the spigot while I had the nib assembly out of the section and it is clearly a fairly loose fit. It is as thought the outside diameter of the spigot is too small or the inside diameter of the converter mouth is too large.

I tried a standard international cartridge on the spigot and it was far more secure.

I might order a couple of replacement Kaigelu converters as perhaps mine is bad.

 

I know that this pen takes a threaded converter however I might experiment with a cartridge ... which does seem to fit quite securely despite not being threaded.

 

<edited for better clarity>


Edited by AndyKeir, 17 February 2016 - 20:23.

Andy sang as he watched and waited 'til his billy boiled ...

(With apologies to Andrew Barton "Banjo" Paterson)


#5 inkeverywhere

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 08:38

I have had the same problem with my 316 but only with Pilot Iroshizuku ink. I have used Lamy, Pelikan 4001, Diamine and Aurora inks in the pen without any problem.

I inked it with the Iroshizuku and had the same experience, a diary page covered in a very pleasant shade of blue.



Greg

"may our fingers remain ink stained"


#6 Frank66

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 08:50

Hi Andy,

 

My impression has been too, that the ink leakage may be caused because of a potential misfit in the diameter of the converter and the spigot connecting together. 

 

Would tying a tread of waxed dental floss or plumber's tape or both, or an elastic thin thread or orthodontic band around the nipple of the spigot along with silicone grease, would that prevent the ink leakage you think?  Please take my advice with all precaution, I am just trying to help best way I can; ink leakage can be frustrating if fear of it resides in one's mind while using a pen.

 

As you said, if using a standard international cartridge might be a better option, then go for it by all means,  Best of luck.

 

Regards,

 

Photios.


Edited by Frank66, 18 February 2016 - 08:50.

- Kaigelu 316 Modification (250 #6 Bock Nib / Beaufort Ink Converter)
- Titanium Bock Nib - Kaigelu 316 - Beaufort Ink

- Bock Rollerball Nib In Jinhao 886 Pen - Beaufort Ink Converter

- No affiliation with pen industry, just a pen hobbyist.


#7 AndyKeir

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 08:55

... I have used Lamy, Pelikan 4001, Diamine and Aurora inks in the pen without any problem ...

 

Yes Greg. I was surprised I had the problem with Pelikan 4001 which is a drier, thicker ink.

If it gushes with Pelikan it would be like a tap with a wetter ink! :)


Andy sang as he watched and waited 'til his billy boiled ...

(With apologies to Andrew Barton "Banjo" Paterson)


#8 AndyKeir

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 09:02

... Would tying a tread of waxed dental floss or plumber's tape or both, or an elastic thin thread or orthodontic band around the nipple of the spigot along with silicone grease, would that prevent the ink leakage you think? ...

 

Thanks Photios.

 

I have done a bit of work on the pen today but I haven't really made any progress.

I have stuck the nib collar in place with some clear nail varnish but I haven't tested it yet.

 

I'm also a bit unsure of how near the feed needs to be from the tip of the nib.

I've put it back exactly where it was when I received the pen but it really looks a bit too far back to me ... too much space between the end of the feed and the nib tip.

 

I'm liking the sound of the Bock nib unit solution more and more! :)


Andy sang as he watched and waited 'til his billy boiled ...

(With apologies to Andrew Barton "Banjo" Paterson)


#9 richardandtracy

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 09:04

I don't think a replacement Kaigelu convertor will solve your problem, because Kaigelu seem to make them all the same size. Try the silicone grease or as Frank66 suggested, a soft wax.

 

I have recently come across a problem. I fitted a convertor on a Chairman's kit pen spigot, and it wouldn't then fit back on the supposedly same size spigot in my Onoto. There are spigots & spigots... The best option would be a new Schmidt K5 convertor or the equivalent from Beaufort Inks. I can confirm that one fits without the need for grease.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.



#10 AndyKeir

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 09:17

I don't think a replacement Kaigelu convertor will solve your problem, because Kaigelu seem to make them all the same size. Try the silicone grease or as Frank66 suggested, a soft wax.

 

I have recently come across a problem. I fitted a convertor on a Chairman's kit pen spigot, and it wouldn't then fit back on the supposedly same size spigot in my Onoto. There are spigots & spigots... The best option would be a new Schmidt K5 convertor or the equivalent from Beaufort Inks. I can confirm that one fits without the need for grease.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

Thanks Richard.

 

I agree about the replacement Kaigelu converters. I've given my converter a very thorough check with a loupe and can see any problems with it. If anything, I think the problem might lie with the spigot as the machining isn't exactly brilliant.

 

Getting a Scmidt converter from Beaufort might be a good solution but given the postage cost for up to 100gm from the UK, I think I might be inclined to try the replacement Bock nib unit solution from Beaufort along with a couple of their matching converters.

 

I do have a Schmidt K5 here ... but it's used in another pen and I would be reluctant to try it on the 316 in case it damages it and I end up with the same problem that you had with the Onoto.


Andy sang as he watched and waited 'til his billy boiled ...

(With apologies to Andrew Barton "Banjo" Paterson)


#11 richardandtracy

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 09:18

This post may also be of interest: http://www.fountainp...rter/?p=3566363

I compared the Beaufort Inks supplied Bock 'Chairman's Kit Pen Nib Unit' housing with the K316 nib unit housing and found them to be identical except in spigot diameter, and strangely enough the K316 c/c seals perfectly against that larger spigot, while the Beaufort c/c seals perfectly against the K316 spigot.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.



#12 dcwaites

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 21:31

Oilz ain't oilz and spigots ain't spigots. 

While I only have one K316, and haven't had any problems with it, I have used silicone grease on the threads of the converter since I first got it.

 

However, for reasons unknown to me, I have four Rotring Skynn fountain pens, which are supposed to take international cartridges/converters. Two won't take converters, (well, they will, but they fall out again) and I can only use new cartridges in them. The other two are perfectly fine. 


Edited by dcwaites, 18 February 2016 - 21:33.

fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif

 

 

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#13 Flounder

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 22:20

 

Thanks Photios.

 

I have done a bit of work on the pen today but I haven't really made any progress.

I have stuck the nib collar in place with some clear nail varnish but I haven't tested it yet.

 

I'm also a bit unsure of how near the feed needs to be from the tip of the nib.

I've put it back exactly where it was when I received the pen but it really looks a bit too far back to me ... too much space between the end of the feed and the nib tip.

 

I'm liking the sound of the Bock nib unit solution more and more! :)

 

Hi, have a look at the photos in this thread. The feed to sleeve set IMO should be 'fully inserted into the sleeve'. The nib to feed set as photographed works well.

 

http://fpgeeks.com/f...ll=1#post120235

 

I have two K316s, one had the "insufficient glue, sleeve driven out by scewing in the converter" issue. It also had a sleeve that sits slightly proud of the section lip. The second one's sleeve is secure in the section, and is flush with the section (as photographed). Made me wonder if they changed parts used during production.


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#14 AndyKeir

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 22:36

 

... Hi, have a look at the photos in this thread ...

 

Ahhh ... excellent. Many thanks.

 

On mine the feed seems to be fully inserted however as received the nib extended much further out past the end of the feed.

I think the nib should go several millimetres further in so that the shoulders of the feed are very close to the edges of the nib as shown the photograph so I'll certainly try that.

 

I also wondered about the channel in the feed aligning with the cutouts in the nipple. As received mine were not aligned. I've tried it with them channel aligned and at 90 degrees and it made no difference to the gushing problem.


Andy sang as he watched and waited 'til his billy boiled ...

(With apologies to Andrew Barton "Banjo" Paterson)


#15 richardandtracy

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 08:16

Well, I actually had a return of the 'drip-drip-drip' yesterday in the pen I took apart to take the photos of. Having no silicone grease with me, I resorted to a tiny snake of blu-tac in the c/c threads, rather like plumbers ptfe (though the space is too small for that).

 

It worked.

 

Regards,

 

Richard



#16 the_gasman

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 20:40

After reading this thread and the related one about fitting a Bock 250 nib unit I decided to buy a Kaigelu 316 as the heaviness and size appealed to me. I decided on the Tiger Eye pattern and it arrived today.

 

I am disappointed that I am not disappointed as I had been hoping to have to replace the nib unit. However, the nib (a medium, that seems quite fine to me) has no leaks or blobs and writes in a beautifully wet, smooth line. Drat, I wanted it to misbehave so that I could tinker! To compound my disappointment at not being disappointed, when writing with the nib upside-down it still writes with a generous, smooth line, but now with a fine/extra fine line.

 

Damn! Damn! Damn! Andy and Richard, you lucky so-and-sos -- you just get all the fun. I wouldn't have bought this pen if I had known that it would behave perfectly right out of the box! I haven't got anything to grumble about as I use it. It's just not fair!

 

Well, I'm not going to be deterred -- I'll probably have a go at pulling the nib and feed when the current load of ink has run dry. I can't be left out of the pleasure of nib swaps.

 

Cheers,

David.



#17 dcwaites

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 23:53

Mine, too, writes perfectly. The only change I have made was to get one of Richards seasonal finials, so it now feels perfect in the hand.


fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif

 

 

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#18 Frank66

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 07:13

Hi, I think AndyKeir has a legitimate complaint with the ink leakage he encounters in his pen. My impression is that he just tries to fix this problem, he does to try to generalize that all Kaigelu 316 pens are leaky or anything, we all know this is a superb pen, otherwise we wouldn't be talking here.

 

Andy, I agree with you that the main problem lies with the fact that the nib section in your pen is not firrnly attached to the grip section. Among the main reasons this can happen is (1) if one tries to tighten the converter too tightly into the pen, or (2) if one tries to dislodge the nib/nib unit from the pen (as happened in my case) and (3) the pen came out of the factory with limited amount of glue between the two parts.

 

As we all know by now, the Kaigelu 316 nib section is cylindrical and is held inside the grip section by friction grip only; it is not screw-retained as it does not possess external threads. On the other hand, the cartridge converter (c/c) is screw-type.

 

So, you are right when you say, "when the converter is screwed into the pen, it is pushing the entire feed, nib and collar out of place". Then, when one tries to unscrew the converter in order to get the nib unit and collar back in place, unscrewing the converter may result in poor contact with the nipple of the feed inside the pen grip, and this exactly where ink leakage comes from, at least in my mind. See Fig 1 below:

IMG_0537_zpsoyevutey.jpg

Fig 1. This is my ivory colored Kaigelu 316 with the spare Kaigelu nib (please forgive my furtitious attempts to grind the nib into a "flexible stub"). Note that when you tighten the converter, the nib unit is expelled out.

 

 

Now I would suggest to attach the nib and grip sections together with a small amount of super glue, shellac or transparent nail polish so it is not easily displaced by the converter. However, if you decide not to do so (as I have because I like to exchange nib units), then here is my suggestion:

 

Try to screw the converter into the grip section with one hand, while applying pressure with the fingers of the other hand so that the nib unit is not expelled/pushed forward by the pressure applied by the inserting converter. You may wear examination gloves, if you like, so that you do not get your hands inked up by the nib and feed. Make sure you do not tighten the converter too much, I suggest stop tightening slightly after the first resistance is felt. Or try to glue the nib unit to the grip section so it is not pushed out every time the converter is tightened into the pen.

 

 

 

Suffice it to say, that in my endeavours for a replacement nib for the caramel-toned / orange Kaigelu 316 pen, I have not have any issues with ink leakage using the 250 Bock nib unit and the Beaufort Ink cartridge converter.  See relevant thread here: http://www.fountainp...ink-converter/

 

IMG_0480_zpssgjv3ctj.jpg

Fig 2. Original Kaigelu 316 pen modified with EF Bock stainless steel two-tone nib and a BeaufortInk ink converter.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Photios


Edited by Frank66, 20 February 2016 - 07:34.

- Kaigelu 316 Modification (250 #6 Bock Nib / Beaufort Ink Converter)
- Titanium Bock Nib - Kaigelu 316 - Beaufort Ink

- Bock Rollerball Nib In Jinhao 886 Pen - Beaufort Ink Converter

- No affiliation with pen industry, just a pen hobbyist.


#19 amk

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 13:15

Great thread. I've had the same issue and solved it with a bit of silicone grease, but I might go for the nail polish route for a more permanent fix.


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#20 Flounder

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 18:34

It is a shame Kaigelu chose to leave the cartridge nipple unsupported. While the screw-in converter sounds like a nice idea, both of mine were rather poorly made. I never use mine, prefer to refill Monteverde magnum size cartridges. I wouldn't mind buying a squeeze converter for the 316.


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