New Guy - Figuring Things Out!

[TheRealMikeDr]

Hello All!

 

Just got my third pen yesterday and wanted to record my thoughts as I work through what works best for me. Truth be told I'm starting to realize there may be no single solution and one may really need a few good pens to handle various situations.

 

That said - Below are the three pens I currently have (left to right):

 

Sheaffer 100 - Bought on a whim at my local OfficeMax - this is what got the whole thing started!

Lamy Safari - my wife gave me this as a present for my birthday a few weeks ago.

Baoer 100 - Bought this on Amazon for fun as an add-on for other items I was purchasing.

 

 

 

The Sheaffer has a medium nib and puts out a lot of ink - which looks good on heavy paper (see below) but feathers on anything cheap. It weighs 28 grams (with some ink in it) and feels great in my hand. I like the classic looks too!

The Lamy weighs only 18 grams and is a bit too modern looking for me but it writes well on cheap paper although the fine nib is still a bit too much for me.

The Baoer 100 weighs 29 grams and puts out a line that's a bit too fine for me - although it could certainly have it's use on cheap paper too.

 

Above is a sample on a Black n' Red paper which is pretty heavy. The Sheaffer puts down a very nice line on this. Both the Sheaffer and Lamy are too wide for my handwriting but really not too much. The Baoer is too fine - I want a bit more ink than that.

 

 

The above is a sample on a basic notepad. The Sheaffer feathers and is too wet while the Safari and Baoer write fine.

 

I realize ink plays a part here too - both the Lamy and the Baoer have Noodlers ink in them and the Sheaffer has the ink it shipped with. I'm going to try it with some Noodlers black when the cartridge runs out.

 

To summarize - I like the weight of the Sheaffer and the Baoer. I like the classic looks too (with the cap on) and the Sheaffer nib looks great. The Baoer has a funky shark mouth but thus far it seems to work surprisingly well - no dry starts and not too scratchy.

 

 

Well then - I've learned that I like a pen with a bit of heft, and I would prefer a nib that puts down a line pretty much in between the one that the Baoer puts down and the line put down by the Lamy or the Shaeffer which are pretty similar. If I was going to budget up to say $300 on such a beast what should I be looking at? And actually I wouldn't be opposed to getting something under $100 as a trial run before springing for something nicer - just to make sure it's in my wheelhouse - that seems to be half the fun. Thanks for your feedback and thoughts!!

[jar]

Put a little money aside to get to a place where you can fondle lots of pens, a pen show or meeting. There are both shows and clubs up your way. There is a whole host of possibilities. Some basic thoughts, in Japanese pens you are likely looking for a medium nib right now. In European pens probably a fine. Don't get turned off by modern steel nibs; one of the smoothest out of the box nibs I've come across lately was a Caran d'Ache Ecridor.

 

Understand that with experience tastes will change. Tomorrow you may feel a need to scratch that BB itch.

[tonybelding]

I'll second what Jar said about preferences changing over time. For example. . . It's not uncommon to be impressed with heavier pens at first, then then gravitate toward very lightweight ones as they gain more experience with fountain pens.

 

Also, if you have long experience using ballpoints, it may take you a while to learn the lighter touch and usually lower angle of incidence that works best with fountain pens. (It certainly took me a while to fully adapt!)

 

As for pen recommendations. . . Wow! There's an entire world of fountain pens out there (and it only gets better if you consider vintage pens!), and everybody has their favorites. Instead of making a sales pitch for my favorite, I think I'll just hit you with a short list of pens that I consider noteworthy in today's scene:

 

• Pilot Vanishing Point
• TWSBI Vac 700
• Gate City Belmont
• Lamy 2000
• Pelikan M205
• Hero 200A
• Baoer 388
• Karas Kustoms Fountain-K (or Ink!)
• anything from Bexley or Edison

 

$300 is actually pretty high up on the fountain pen scale. None of the pens I listed are that high unless you get the Belmont or Bexley with a gold nib (which is really just an affectation), or have a custom pen made by Edison. Of course you can go way over $300 on a pen, but then you're getting into "bling" rather than a more functional writing instrument.

 

Got to admit, I've been tempted to drop nearly $400 on an Aurora Talentum, or $350+ on a Waterman L'Etalon (now out of production, but you can still find them). They are exquisitely made, very solid, very attractive pens. But. . . When it comes to how they write, they're not magical.

 

If you want ze magicks, then you have to go for a stub nib or a flex nib. That's not so much a matter of money. It's a matter of seeking them out. (The Baoer 388 that I listed above actually has a bit of flex, and you can find those pens online now for $4, which is crazy.)

[shawndp]

Mike - you look like you have a weight preferemce towards metal pens, so maybe consider something like the Parson's Essential - it is one of the nicest under $100 writers out there and comes in more nib choices than you can ever decide on. I don't think I have read a bad review on one ever. It;s around GBP 35 (from Mr.Pen ) and he ships pretty quickly. I am in the process of ordering one this weekend... All the best!

[ENewton]

I also recommend that you attend a show or meeting where you can try a variety of pens.

 

One experience you might enjoy is a pen with a gold nib, which would tend to be softer than your current pens and so would offer you yet another, different writing experience. You would need to be careful not to apply pressure when writing, which some people accustomed to ballpoints find a difficult adjustment to make, but you sound like an attentive person who would respect the instrument. For less than $300, you could get a nice Waterman pen from the 1980s or 1990's. My favorite is the Man 100. (Note that if you go this route and start looking at vintage Waterman pens, you will discover some really beautiful older ones made of hard rubber or celluloid. However, those would not have the heft you prefer.)

[Buzz_130]

I think you are off to a great start already figuring out what you like in a fountain pen. Most of us spent too long chasing the flavor of the month or the best idea from FPN. When you (finally) accept that you have your own tastes for balance, weight, width, nib size, feedback, and style, this acceptance is a very liberating moment.

 

Jar is giving you some great advice. Wherever you can, find a place to see, hold, and write with fountain pens you find interesting. That will quickly separate the ones that just aren't going to work from the ones you might want to spend some of your hard-earned money on. For example, people will often recommend the Pilot VP, but this is a pen that you definitely must hold first. With the clip on the top where your index finger may rest, heavy weight, and wide grip, some many not like it (even though it will come in at 1/2 your budget). The same with the Lamy 2000. The L2K is an outstanding pen that has fundamentally remained the same since the 60s. But the metal section, heavy weight, thick grip, and the cap retaining tabs may or may not work for you.

 

A Japanese medium nib would likely meet your needs, but most of the Japanese pens are extremely light. A Western medium would also likely be close.

 

I also recommend buying some samples of ink. If you want to tame your Sheaffer, then get a dry ink like Pelikan 4001. You could even try an iron gall for that poor legal pad. Writing on most poor paper requires a few specialized tools. If you want to improve your Boaer, then you should consider a wetter ink like Diamine. For a great deal less than your budget, you could find the ink that matches up with your nibs and your paper.

 

Buzz

[drafty]

I echo all of the above and...you're going to make a good reviewer. I look forward to reading those.

[Runnin_Ute]

I was like you once. At least in terms of pen weight. My first 3 pens were in the 15 to 25 gram range. Number 4 was 30 grams. Didn't take to long to figure out that was the top of my range.

 

I have discovered that 15 to 25 is best for me and I gravitate to th 15 to 20 gram range mostly. You will figure out your sweet spot too. It may surprise you when you do.

[ac12]

As other have said, I suggest you wait a bit before dropping $$$ on a heavy pen.

Take some time to REALLY figure out what you want FIRST.

 

For weight of the pen. I can write with a somewhat heavy pen 25-30g, for about a page, after that, the weight of the pen starts to get tiring. My preferred weight is about 15g, but no heavier than 20g. With a lighter pen I can write for up to 3 hours, without getting tired.

 

For nibs, I prefer an old US Parker F = Lamy XF. But for some of my papers and inks, I have to go up to to a wider old US Parker M = Lamy F. This is because the slightly less smooth paper feels scratchy under the F nib, and the fine F nib makes some inks look faded and washed out. What I am saying is that nib selection is affected by several variables, and you may end up like me, using more than one nib size.

 

The good thing about your Safari is that you can easily swap nibs, to experiment and find what nib size works for YOU, your paper and your ink. You might try a Lamy EF nib on the Safari and see if that is more to your liking.

Edited February 13, 2016 by ac12

[TheRealMikeDr]

Put a little money aside to get to a place where you can fondle lots of pens, a pen show or meeting. There are both shows and clubs up your way. There is a whole host of possibilities. Some basic thoughts, in Japanese pens you are likely looking for a medium nib right now. In European pens probably a fine. Don't get turned off by modern steel nibs; one of the smoothest out of the box nibs I've come across lately was a Caran d'Ache Ecridor.

 

Understand that with experience tastes will change. Tomorrow you may feel a need to scratch that BB itch.

 

 

Thanks! I see a Pen show in Columbus in November that I may be able to attend. I'll just have to figure out a way to get my wife to sign off on it...

 

 

Mike - you look like you have a weight preferemce towards metal pens, so maybe consider something like the Parson's Essential - it is one of the nicest under $100 writers out there and comes in more nib choices than you can ever decide on. I don't think I have read a bad review on one ever. It;s around GBP 35 (from Mr.Pen ) and he ships pretty quickly. I am in the process of ordering one this weekend... All the best!

 

 

Thanks - that looks like fun! I like the idea of ordering a pen direct from across the pond. The Burgundy pen looks very nice. The nib sizes are a bit overwhelming though - maybe you can post writing samples when you get yours to help out in that regard!

 

 

I think you are off to a great start already figuring out what you like in a fountain pen. Most of us spent too long chasing the flavor of the month or the best idea from FPN. When you (finally) accept that you have your own tastes for balance, weight, width, nib size, feedback, and style, this acceptance is a very liberating moment.

 

Jar is giving you some great advice. Wherever you can, find a place to see, hold, and write with fountain pens you find interesting. That will quickly separate the ones that just aren't going to work from the ones you might want to spend some of your hard-earned money on. For example, people will often recommend the Pilot VP, but this is a pen that you definitely must hold first. With the clip on the top where your index finger may rest, heavy weight, and wide grip, some many not like it (even though it will come in at 1/2 your budget). The same with the Lamy 2000. The L2K is an outstanding pen that has fundamentally remained the same since the 60s. But the metal section, heavy weight, thick grip, and the cap retaining tabs may or may not work for you.

 

A Japanese medium nib would likely meet your needs, but most of the Japanese pens are extremely light. A Western medium would also likely be close.

 

I also recommend buying some samples of ink. If you want to tame your Sheaffer, then get a dry ink like Pelikan 4001. You could even try an iron gall for that poor legal pad. Writing on most poor paper requires a few specialized tools. If you want to improve your Boaer, then you should consider a wetter ink like Diamine. For a great deal less than your budget, you could find the ink that matches up with your nibs and your paper.

 

Buzz

 

 

Thanks for the ink advice. I just ordered some Diamine and Pelikan samples from Goulet.

 

 

As other have said, I suggest you wait a bit before dropping $$$ on a heavy pen.

Take some time to REALLY figure out what you want FIRST.

 

For weight of the pen. I can write with a somewhat heavy pen 25-30g, for about a page, after that, the weight of the pen starts to get tiring. My preferred weight is about 15g, but no heavier than 20g. With a lighter pen I can write for up to 3 hours, without getting tired.

 

For nibs, I prefer an old US Parker F = Lamy XF. But for some of my papers and inks, I have to go up to to a wider old US Parker M = Lamy F. This is because the slightly less smooth paper feels scratchy under the F nib, and the fine F nib makes some inks look faded and washed out. What I am saying is that nib selection is affected by several variables, and you may end up like me, using more than one nib size.

 

The good thing about your Safari is that you can easily swap nibs, to experiment and find what nib size works for YOU, your paper and your ink. You might try a Lamy EF nib on the Safari and see if that is more to your liking.

 

Actually now that I look back at the writing I did when I first got the Lamy Safari I can see a big difference in the way it wrote (less ink - a finer line) with the Lamy ink vs the Noodlers Liberty's Elysium ink it now has in it. I'll have to try a EF nib on it to see how it behaves. I'll try some Pelikan ink it it as well to see the difference. Frankly I can see ending up with several different pens with several different nibs each using different types of ink.

[Wolverine1]

Mike- I see that you in Ohio. How far are you from Ann Arbor, MI? Because we are having a meeting of the Ann Arbor Pen Posse either on March 20th or on March 27th. Could you attend the meeting? There will be at least10 to 15 people there, with a dizzying variety of pens. You could come and try out the various pens. You will get to handle a wide variety. So, check out the Clubs/Meetings sub-forum, and read about the next meeting. Also there is a post about one of our previous meetings with tons of pictures.

[gordyt]

Mike I recently picked up a Pilot Custom 823 for less than $300. It is a superb pen with a vacuum filling system like the TWSBI Vac 700, so it has a generous ink capacity. It is a little larger and heavier (but not too large or too heavy) and has an amazingly-smooth gold nib. I do not think you can go wrong with one of these.

 

Edited to add that I got mine with a medium nib. But remember Japanese nibs tend to run a little finer than there Western counterparts.

Edited February 14, 2016 by gordyt

[ac12]

 

 

Actually now that I look back at the writing I did when I first got the Lamy Safari I can see a big difference in the way it wrote (less ink - a finer line) with the Lamy ink vs the Noodlers Liberty's Elysium ink it now has in it. I'll have to try a EF nib on it to see how it behaves. I'll try some Pelikan ink it it as well to see the difference. Frankly I can see ending up with several different pens with several different nibs each using different types of ink.

 

 

Ah yes, you have discovered ink wetness and how it affect the ink line. The Noodler's Liberty's Elysium is a pretty wet ink, and flows well, sometimes too well. And thus it will give you a wider ink line. Pelikan ink is a dry ink, so it will give you a narrower ink line.

[TheRealMikeDr]

Mike I recently picked up a Pilot Custom 823 for less than $300. It is a superb pen with a vacuum filling system like the TWSBI Vac 700, so it has a generous ink capacity. It is a little larger and heavier (but not too large or too heavy) and has an amazingly-smooth gold nib. I do not think you can go wrong with one of these.

 

Edited to add that I got mine with a medium nib. But remember Japanese nibs tend to run a little finer than there Western counterparts.

 

 

Thanks - I found a nice review of the 823 (from someone fairly local to me actually) and it looks very nice. It's on the list of those to research!

 

   

 

Ah yes, you have discovered ink wetness and how it affect the ink line. The Noodler's Liberty's Elysium is a pretty wet ink, and flows well, sometimes too well. And thus it will give you a wider ink line. Pelikan ink is a dry ink, so it will give you a narrower ink line.

 

Aye - I actually thought the Safari wrote very well with the Lamy blue ink however I want something a little darker and Lamy has limited color selections. I've got several Pelikan samples on the way to play with. I'm going to try the Liberty's Elysium in the Baoer - it may be a winning combo for me.

[TheRealMikeDr]

Mike- I see that you in Ohio. How far are you from Ann Arbor, MI? Because we are having a meeting of the Ann Arbor Pen Posse either on March 20th or on March 27th. Could you attend the meeting? There will be at least10 to 15 people there, with a dizzying variety of pens. You could come and try out the various pens. You will get to handle a wide variety. So, check out the Clubs/Meetings sub-forum, and read about the next meeting. Also there is a post about one of our previous meetings with tons of pictures.

 

Hi!

 

Thanks for the invite - Ann Arbor is roughly 2.75 hours from me (I was out there last summer for a few days on a business trip) but I don't know that I could swing the trip next month.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I hate it when someone says 'Flex' nibs....in that term is much too broad. Flex IMO = superflex nibs.

 

Too often a 'noobie' sees only the word Flex, when semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex is talked about....and think they are superflex.

Semi/Maxi-semi-flex are like 'true' regular flex, they have a 3X tine a light down stroke spread as a max tine spread. (trying to spread the tines more = bent nib) The three of them are in a tine spread range set; what varies is how much pressure is needed to spread the tines 3X.

 

You will find out with in the first minute spreading the tines of the true regular flex 3X is a lot of hard work...and shouldn't be done often any way, or you can fatigue/bend your nib.

Just press the nib once or twice to see what sort of pressure is needed to spread the tines 3X....don't do that to a modern pen out side the Pelikan steel nibbed 200. You need to learn what true regular flex feels like so when you run into vintage and semi-vintage pens, you can press the nib to your thumb and say 'eureka'.

 

"True" Regular flex....is semi-vintage and vintage. '90's and back. It is a springy nib that gives a good ride. In most pen companies went away from that because of the constant repair costs from the Ham Fisted Ball Point Barbarians bending nibs...they went over to just making nails and semi-nails.

In it comes on the modern pen and is not a nail, many think it as regular flex, when it is not.It is a semi-nail. The modern Pelikans out side the steel Pelikan 200's nib did that. The steel 200's nib remained true regular flex. The '90-80's 400/600/800's were nice true regular flex. The modern 400/600 is a semi-nail and the 800 is now a nail.

 

A nail has @ no tine spread, semi-nail if really mashed has @ 2 X tine spread. True Regular flex has @ 3 X tine spread.

 

Many folks use to semi-nails the first time they run into a 'true' regular flex, they think it is semi-flex it is 'so springy/soft' and what not. It Is Not!

You need eventually an F and M in true regular flex. And M is a much maligned nib ...in folks go skinny or fat with their next nibs. It is a prejudice one picks up here on this com. F&M are good nibs for shading inks in true regular flex, depending on the ink and paper. Often Semi-flex is too wet because of the ease of tine spread compared to regular flex.

 

If you have a 'true' regular flex, and mash it so you get a 3 X tine spread over a light down stroke, a semi-flex takes half that pressure.

Maxi-semi-flex half of that or needs only 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a true regular flex to 3X.

 

Superflex has a tine flex from 4-5-6 or even in rare cases 7X a light down stroke.

 

Superflex...this 'guide' is much too rough to exact....but as a guide for a 'noobie' , in Superflex has much too much variation when one has enough or seen enough of them.Mauricio a real expert don't care for my guide, in it's just a 'go west' guide map with out the rivers.

Easy Full Flex, 1/8th the pressure to spread it's tines than a true regular flex.

Wet Noodle, 1/16th the pressure.

Weak Kneed Wet Noodle....even less. I don't have one of these.

 

I get by with a 1/2, 1/2, 1/2, 1/2 & 1/2 pressure difference from true regular flex up to a wet noodle.

 

I must have 10-12 true regular flex, 26 semi-flex, 15 or so maxi-semi-flex, some 5 or 6 plus a hand full of nibs of Easy full flex and 3 Super flex. Super flex is too much work for me....I am too lazy to have spent the time learning to draw the letters. Yes, superflex demands hard work before you can 'start' mastering it.

I have unfortunately more than the basic 4-5 nails EF, F, M, B and three or four semi-nails too.

What you can do to your nails later is to make them into Stubs and Cursive Italic nibs...to put some free character into your writing. So owning a nail is not the end of the world.

 

 

For real flex go to dip pens, there too there are many levels of flex. A Soennecken is a wet noodle. A Hunt 99-100-101 makes a wet noodle look uncooked.

That is where you should eventually go and first if you decide you must have a "Flex pen" :wallbash:As I said I don't like the term 'Flex'. I do like superflex though.

Dip pen nibs are much cheaper, and when you bust one...no big deal...you have not ruined a unreplaceable superflex nib.

 

I always suggest working one's way up the flex ladder....regular flex, semi-flex, easy full flex super flex before hitting the wet noodle. Most folks being trained by TV into instant gratification, jump into the deep end of the pool...wanting a 'wet noodle super flex' pen before their Hand is light enough for one.

Many find it is hard work and go home to butter smooth nails.

 

I was like most 'noobies', Ham Fisted. I lucked into my first semi-flex, a Pelikan 140. As soon as I pressed the nib against my thumb nail, I knew what all the fuss was all about. I was still a bit ham fisted. It took me some three months to lighten my Hand up to be ready for the next stage. I was 'only' slightly ham fisted, good enough for the maxi-semi-flex. Some months later my Hand was light enough for my first Superflex nib, luckily an Easy Full Flex.

 

Remember LA was not built in a day, so take your time.

 

I think a good mix for a 'noobie' is nail in EF and B, and semi-vintage M&F before going up to semi-flex.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Bo Bo Olson

[BobR]

Since you're just starting, there's no reason not to invest about $15 in a Pilot Metropolitan, F or M nib. It will give you a different feel than your current pens, which have stiff nibs. The Metropolitan's nib has some softness or spring to it, which I prefer (I flatter myself to think it makes my handwriting look better). Either way it would be a worthwhile investment and you'll end up with a great pen.

[TheRealMikeDr]

Since you're just starting, there's no reason not to invest about $15 in a Pilot Metropolitan, F or M nib. It will give you a different feel than your current pens, which have stiff nibs. The Metropolitan's nib has some softness or spring to it, which I prefer (I flatter myself to think it makes my handwriting look better). Either way it would be a worthwhile investment and you'll end up with a great pen.

 

 

Good idea!

[TheRealMikeDr]

UPDATE!!

 

Got my Pilot Metropolitan in today (with a fine nib) - very pleased with it so far. I put some Noodlers Heart-of-Darkness in it and it writes like a champ. Maybe a tad too wet for me but not too bad. It's starts *immediatly* and doesn't seem as fussy as the Baoer with regards to having it in the sweet spot in order to write. In fact it seems to write from just about any angle! I like the form too - it's thicker than the Sheaffer and Baoer and has a little heft to it. In short I like the direction I'm headed with this pen.

 

Question - would a Custom 74 or 823 with a fine nib put down a similar line? I'm guessing a fine nib from Pilot will be similar with regards to size - across the product line.

 

Also - booking business trips to Vegas and Chicago so I'm hopeful I'll be able to sneak out to a real pen shop (assuming they have one - I'm guessing Chicago has to have one!) to test out some nicer models. But truth be told I like the Metropolitan and will be happy to use it for a while!

 

Edit - I should note that the squeeze converter seems a bit odd - I prefer having a window to see how much ink is left. I'll have to pick up a con-50 in short order.

Edited February 18, 2016 by TheRealMikeDr

[jar]

UPDATE!!

 

Got my Pilot Metropolitan in today (with a fine nib) - very pleased with it so far. I put some Noodlers Heart-of-Darkness in it and it writes like a champ. Maybe a tad too wet for me but not too bad. It's starts *immediatly* and doesn't seem as fussy as the Baoer with regards to having it in the sweet spot in order to write. In fact it seems to write from just about any angle! I like the form too - it's thicker than the Sheaffer and Baoer and has a little heft to it. In short I like the direction I'm headed with this pen.

 

Question - would a Custom 74 or 823 with a fine nib put down a similar line? I'm guessing a fine nib from Pilot will be similar with regards to size - across the product line.

 

Also - booking business trips to Vegas and Chicago so I'm hopeful I'll be able to sneak out to a real pen shop (assuming they have one - I'm guessing Chicago has to have one!) to test out some nicer models. But truth be told I like the Metropolitan and will be happy to use it for a while!

 

Edit - I should note that the squeeze converter seems a bit odd - I prefer having a window to see how much ink is left. I'll have to pick up a con-50 in short order.

Be careful buying a fountain pen in Vegas. Remember everything that happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. If you buy in Chicago at least it can leave.