Parker 51; Why Not Bring It Back?

[dcwaites]

The cap, of course, will need to be of a rough, grey nature to replicate the rind.

The Extra Sharp will need to be put away for 18 months to mature before being sold.

[pajaro]

Actually, Parker made the 51 well into the 1970s. Awful plastic, but they were still 51s.

 

I have one of those 51s. English made, bloody burgundy with rolled gold cap and a broad nib. It writes so stingily that you would think it were an accountant point. Pretty, though. The plastic is different. Overall impression is suckdog.

[koichichu]

While it would be nice of they brought it back, its likely that it would just be cheaply made over priced junk that only looked like a 51

[Ron Z]

They already did that over a decade ago. It was over priced junk that only looked like a 51, and had barrels that tended to crack. Lots of problems with that pen.

[pajaro]

This topic has been discussed, and the conclusion is that the original 1940s to 1960s 51 would not be made. What Parker would make is a C/C pen looking something like a deluxe 51 and performing like the typical C/C pen of today that dries up too soon and requires user effort to get it writing again. That or a desk pen base to park it in. Maybe they would supply the base or offer it as an accessory. They might really profane the original 51 design by giving it a laquered barrel and hood. It might be better than the previous failed attempt to make a good 51 replica.

 

By the way, I have a Firedance Sonnet, fine point, that has been point down now for months and has yet to dry out. I check it every day to see. No use, just testing. Same result with a Waterman Carene extra fine that dried up overnight. About 8 months point down in a Sheaffer Imperial base and still writing. I use this every few days. I think this technique would work on a resurrected 51 CC pen.

Edited April 6, 2016 by pajaro

[Flounder]

I'd be perfectly happy with a new interpretation of the 61.

[mitto]

This topic has been discussed, and the conclusion is that the original 1940s to 1960s 51 would not be made. What Parker would make is a C/C pen looking something like a deluxe 51 and performing like the typical C/C pen of today that dries up too soon and requires user effort to get it writing again. That or a desk pen base to park it in. Maybe they would supply the base or offer it as an accessory. They might really profane the original 51 design by giving it a laquered barrel and hood. It might be better than the previous failed attempt to make a good 51 replica.

 

By the way, I have a Firedance Sonnet, fine point, that has been point down now for months and has yet to dry out. I check it every day to see. No use, just testing. Same result with a Waterman Carene extra fine that dried up overnight. About 8 months point down in a Sheaffer Imperial base and still writing. I use this every few days. I think this technique would work on a resurrected 51 CC pen.

 

And, thus, there should be an option to buy the 'resurrected' 51 without the cap.

Edited April 7, 2016 by mitto

[Mulrich]

Follow-up questions…

 

Assuming Parker used similar production processes to produce a re-released 51 what would you be willing to pay to buy one?

 

 

How much do you think it would cost to produce such a pen? What if they modernized some of the production (e.g., using robotic lathes, etc) to cut down on expensive manual labor (while maintaining quality standards)?

 

 

Ultimately the end product would still be a mid-sized plastic pen with a 14k nib, snap cap, and either an aeromatic (i.e., slightly better than converter) or vaccumatic filling mechanism.

 

Would you make any changes to improve the design? Would a piston-filled 51 be worth a premium? Would you want a 18k nib? Screw cap? Other recent FP advances?

[mitto]

I simply wouldn't bother buying it as long as the real deal is still there.

[Ron Z]

I simply wouldn't bother buying it as long as the real deal is still there.

 

...and that's the thing. There are SO many of the original 51s out there in very good condition, and still some that are mint, stickered and for reasonable prices that they can't compete with the original product. It doesn't make sense to try to produce one with the original design.

[Flounder]

As it happens, I did glance over an advertorial for the new '51' while browsing for winter spats at my local haberdasher. Imagine my disappointment when I discovered, on close examination, that it bears little resemblance to the original.

 

Gone is the spring loaded plunger, hidden under a blind cap whose join can hardly be discerned. Instead one is obliged to manually manipulate a vulgar piece of bent steel, which prods an imitation-rubber ink sac. I'm sure this would bruise the leather of one's kid gloves severely.

 

Needless to say, this is dressed up as the best thing since Fred and Ginger - "Foto [sic] Filler" this and "Hi Flite [sic] Leak Prevention" that.

[hood]

[pajaro]

I simply wouldn't bother buying it as long as the real deal is still there.

 

 

 

...and that's the thing. There are SO many of the original 51s out there in very good condition, and still some that are mint, stickered and for reasonable prices that they can't compete with the original product. It doesn't make sense to try to produce one with the original design.

 

I think the most I ever got for a NOS 51 that I sold was $125.00.

 

With all the retooling for robotic production, etc., that would have to be done, would Parker (Newell Rubbermaid) offer a new resurrected 51 for that price? Until the resale market for 51s dries up will someone want to produce new ones? If the used 51 price goes way up, then maybe it would pay to compete with the used market.

 

Why do you have to have a new one anyway? I have had several new or NOS 51s that I put into use, and, while it was a pleasant experience, I was often just as happy to acquire a used 51, because they always seemed to work just fine. The only letdown was the plum, because the color is so dark and the nib required careful smoothing.

[Mangrove Jack]

Anyone using or used the Hero copy of the 51? They are manufactured currently. Is it an exact copy of the Parker 51 ?

[Flounder]

Anyone using or used the Hero copy of the 51? They are manufactured currently. Is it an exact copy of the Parker 51 ?

 

I used Hero's 616 jumbo/doctor pens for quite a while before getting my first 51. It is enough of a copy of the 51 to be an excellent servicing trainer, but that's about it - many differences! The external dimensions are very close, and a 616 jumbo cap will fit on a 51.

 

Quality-wise, it's nowhere close to the 51, of course. I still use one regularly despite having plenty of excellent 51s, as a knockabout pen in environments I would like 51-similar characteristics without risking my 51s.

[jmccarty3]

As mitto mentioned, Parker released a modern recreation of the 51 as a special edition in 2002. It used injection modeled plastics and had a nib and feed similar to the one used on the MK1 Parker 21. It was a cartridge/converter filler.

 

Unfortunately, the pen retailed in the $300 range and the plastics had cracking issues. It got a mixed response from collectors.

 

 

I bought one of these and still have it. The plastic is very thin and fragile, nothing like the original, and the pen is not a good writer. Parker didn't do themselves any favors with this one.

[JotterAddict62]

If all the vintage P51's were all gone tomorrow I would fire up my P21's.

[lyonlover]

It would be fascinating if Parker still made some sort of hooded nib pen. But it wouldn't really be economically prudent. They tried with the 51 SE, which looked good but was inferior to the real one. They also made the P100, which (in my opinion) was a phenomenal pen in my opinion (I like it), but that didn't sell well because it wasn't flashy enough to be a graduation present for non-fp users and was too avant-garde for fp users, especially P51 fans, and as a result was only made for 3 or 4 years and quietly discontinued. Neither of these pens had a true hooded nib (I could be wrong), and the P100 was (as an FPN member pointed out, forgot who) not much more than a souped-up P45 with a gold nib.

 

And being flashy is vital to a high-end pen's popularity nowadays. Most people, when they pay more than $20 for a pen, expect to go "ooh, shiny" when they look at it, and the P51 and P100 were very subtle in design (they are easily mistaken for ballpoints). Contrast this to the Sheaffer inlaid pens, which have been in production for over half a century, but are still popular-ish to buy new because they are quite ostentatious. This also explains why Parker still sells open-nibbed Duofolds like hotcakes. People want to see the gold they paid for nowadays.

 

Furthermore, as another member pointed out, a new top-notch hooded Parker would cost at least $200 (I guess around or a bit over the price of a Waterman Carene) and would come with a C/C converter (like the new Duofolds). Most FP users would scoff at both of these decisive details, and would brush off the pen as another overpriced gimmick.

 

I would buy a P100 in a heartbeat if the price was right. The solid heft and thicker diameter are pluses for me as my hands don't fatigue very quickly. Too bad the colors are either too goofy or too dreary for my taste. If they had released a flighter, however...

 

I guess all of us would love to see a new hooded nib Parker in the spirit of the P51 and P61, but with the modern qualities of the new Duofold, but it doesn't mean we'd buy it.

[Mangrove Jack]

I used Hero's 616 jumbo/doctor pens for quite a while before getting my first 51. It is enough of a copy of the 51 to be an excellent servicing trainer, but that's about it - many differences! The external dimensions are very close, and a 616 jumbo cap will fit on a 51.

 

Quality-wise, it's nowhere close to the 51, of course. I still use one regularly despite having plenty of excellent 51s, as a knockabout pen in environments I would like 51-similar characteristics without risking my 51s.

Thanks. I too have a P51 copy Hero. Writes very well, smooth and stays wet.

Are the internals especially under the hood the same as the P51 in design ?

[Flounder]

Thanks. I too have a P51 copy Hero. Writes very well, smooth and stays wet.

Are the internals especially under the hood the same as the P51 in design ?

 

They're close enough of a funtional copy to practise nib-collector-hood alignment on, sealing the threads, tine adjustment, that sort of thing. The materials of these are different to the 51 and their dimensions are not identical either. The breather tube does not have the 51's aerometric hole.

 

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/flounder2009/Hero%20616%20Nib%20Alignment/Hero616nibalign5.jpg

 

 

They bothered to give the ink sac 51-style flow channels, I think that's a nice touch.

 

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/flounder2009/Hero%20616/Hero616Jumbo-DoctorBreather001.jpg

 

 

Consiering the rubbish that passes for a cap in most Chinese cheapies, it's really surprising that they went to the trouble to fit a pressed-in steel cap clutch, or attempt at venting the inner cap.

 

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/flounder2009/Hero%20616%20Cap%20Adjustment%20Fix/Hero616Adjustements019_640x480.jpg

 

 

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/flounder2009/Hero%20616%20Cap%20Adjustment%20Fix/Hero616Adjustements020_640x480.jpg

 

You never read about these things in 616 reviews!

Edited April 9, 2016 by Flounder