Kaweco Liliput Fireblue - Does The Finish Fade?

[OakIris]

Pocket pens seem to be one of my favorite "types" of pens, so of course the Kaweco Liliput is on my list of fountain pens to lust after. Despite the rather steep jump in price, ​I find myself attracted to the Fireblue version of the pen. I have been reading reviews - gotta justify my decision, right? - and read this one from spring of last year: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/287841-kaweco-liliput-fireblue/ Fluegelfeder mentioned something in his review that I hadn't considered as a possible issue - he wondered whether or not the coloring from the annealing process of the steel that gives the fireblue it's unique and one-of-a-kind coloring/finish would fade in time.

 

Fluegelfeder, on 28 Mar 2015 - 05:19, said:Fluegelfeder, on 28 Mar 2015 - 05:19, said:

 

Appearance and design:

 

This is the interesting part of the story... blue coloring by annealing is well known to all the watch aficionados out there. Parts of the movement or the hands of the watch are blued by heating. Different temperatures resulting in different colors of the workpiece. And exactly this is how it works with the Liliput: In the process of annealing heat is applied for each Fireblue piece individually by manual labor. In color matching caps, bodies and sections are put together afterwards so every single Liliput Fireblue is one of a kind.

The question is how durable these annealing colors are as a finish for a fountain pen that is meant to be carried in a pocket... on the other hand it is like the opposite idea for the Kaweco Sport AL raw or the brass and copper Liliputs: These pens are perfectly shiny and smooth when they arrive and develop a wonderful patina over time... maybe the Liliput Fireblue arrives with it's patina, which then fades over time

I am curious, so any owner's experiences are welcome!

 

I am not sure if anyone has had one of these pens long enough to know one way or the other, or if someone with experience with annealed metal can tell us, but I, too, am curious about this. After all, if it does fade, the price premium for this finish is hardly worth it.....

 

So, does the annealing "patina" disappear with time and use or is the process permanent and there is no way that it could fade and such a worry is pure silliness?

 

Holly

 

 

[sirgilbert357]

Pocket pens seem to be one of my favorite "types" of pens, so of course the Kaweco Liliput is on my list of fountain pens to lust after. Despite the rather steep jump in price, ​I find myself attracted to the Fireblue version of the pen. I have been reading reviews - gotta justify my decision, right? - and read this one from spring of last year: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/287841-kaweco-liliput-fireblue/ Fluegelfeder mentioned something in his review that I hadn't considered as a possible issue - he wondered whether or not the coloring from the annealing process of the steel that gives the fireblue it's unique and one-of-a-kind coloring/finish would fade in time.

 

 

I am not sure if anyone has had one of these pens long enough to know one way or the other, or if someone with experience with annealed metal can tell us, but I, too, am curious about this. After all, if it does fade, the price premium for this finish is hardly worth it.....

 

So, does the annealing "patina" disappear with time and use or is the process permanent and there is no way that it could fade and such a worry is pure silliness?

 

Holly

 

 

 

My understanding is that this color (on the Liliput) is achieved through heat treating (torch technique). In any event, all types of bluing, whether they be cold, chemical or heat, can and will eventually wear off with use. This is most commonly seen with blued firearms. All bluing is a surface-only layer, meaning if you were to heavily scratch the metal, you would remove the bluing and see the raw metal underneath. All bluing isn't created equal though, and some resist wear better than others. Still, if I were in the market for this Liliput, I would have the expectation that the pen will eventually show wear in the blue oxide finish. Whether it can be "re-blued" later is an idea worth exploration...

Edited February 11, 2016 by sirgilbert357

[OakIris]

Thank you for your response, sirgilbert357. Disappointing....

 

I have emailed Kaweco about the Fireblue finish. If I get an answer, I will let folks know what they have to say. (I did get an auto-response saying the email had been received, so that is a good sign.)

 

Holly

[sirgilbert357]

Thank you for your response, sirgilbert357. Disappointing....

 

I have emailed Kaweco about the Fireblue finish. If I get an answer, I will let folks know what they have to say. (I did get an auto-response saying the email had been received, so that is a good sign.)

 

Holly

 

Sorry...Even anodizing (as the blue of the Karas Kustoms "Ink" is done) will wear away with use. Its quite frustrating because I love that bright blue color of the Karas Kustoms pens, but I refuse to buy the pen because I know what anodized aluminum looks like after hard wear. Ugly, IMO.

 

I would also point out that you wouldn't want to *repeatedly* re-blue something (if the finish even takes properly, which it might not without extensive surface prepping to bring it back to the raw steel state) simply because the heat of bluing actually changes the surface hardness of the steel and I would think doing it over and over would make it more brittle...

[Old_Inkyhand]

Would it be possible to preserve the unique look by means of a few layers of durable transparent lacquer or something like that?

[OakIris]

Would it be possible to preserve the unique look by means of a few layers of durable transparent lacquer or something like that?

 

I was wondering about that as well, but, perhaps more trouble than it is worth. I did ask Kaweco if they had some sort of coating on the finish, though I doubt that they do. I may just have to forget about the fireblue and get one of the copper or brass Liliputs - don't really want to pay about $50 more for this finish only to watch it slowly fade away along with my whole reason for buying that particular version!

 

Holly

[Thunderpants]

I think it's an appalling rip off to charge so much above the regular finish. Some bloke fried the pen under a blowtorch for 30 seconds.... that's $50, please. (And then they have the nerve to suggest the pen is now a work of art. It may look cool but you do not have to be Picasso to wave a blowtorch.)

[Old_Inkyhand]

I was tempted to buy a pen and give it to a friend of mine who has a big workshop with quite a few blowtorches. But I guess it could be risky.

 

It's a pity, I liked this finish. I agree that the additional consumer's cost is way too big.

[sirgilbert357]

Would it be possible to preserve the unique look by means of a few layers of durable transparent lacquer or something like that?

 

That's the logical direction to take...I wonder what would preserve the finish without chemically reacting with it -- if that's even possible. It might be that no lacquer would react with the blued finish, but I don't know enough about all of that to know. I'm tempted to get a tube of stainless steel from a metal store and blue it, then put a few layers of different lacquers on to see what happens...would be a rather easy experiment to be honest.

[sirgilbert357]

I think it's an appalling rip off to charge so much above the regular finish. Some bloke fried the pen under a blowtorch for 30 seconds.... that's $50, please. (And then they have the nerve to suggest the pen is now a work of art. It may look cool but you do not have to be Picasso to wave a blowtorch.)

 

I'll agree and disagree...it IS basically just held under a torch it would seem...heck, it may even be automated by robots...would be easy enough to do, honestly.

 

But I will (playfully) disagree on the "work of art" comment...aren't all fountain pens works of art in a way?

Edited February 11, 2016 by sirgilbert357

[Old_Inkyhand]

That's the logical direction to take...I wonder what would preserve the finish without chemically reacting with it -- if that's even possible. It might be that no lacquer would react with the blued finish, but I don't know enough about all of that to know. I'm tempted to get a tube of stainless steel from a metal store and blue it, then put a few layers of different lacquers on to see what happens...would be a rather easy experiment to be honest.

It would be great . I guess the lacquer wouldn't react with metal, even if it tends to react with paint. There are so many types of lacquer that there *has to* be at least one which would be good for this purpose. I'll ask my fellow chemist.

[sirgilbert357]

 

I was wondering about that as well, but, perhaps more trouble than it is worth. I did ask Kaweco if they had some sort of coating on the finish, though I doubt that they do. I may just have to forget about the fireblue and get one of the copper or brass Liliputs - don't really want to pay about $50 more for this finish only to watch it slowly fade away along with my whole reason for buying that particular version!

 

Holly

 

If you spring for it eventually, I would just encourage you to make it a "home only" pen. I wouldn't store it in a leather sleeve or any type of pen roll that holds the pen by friction -- even if it is a soft material. Any kind of repetitive push/pull friction will slowly wear the oxide layer down. It might take months, or it might take years...but my take on things like this is I want to be able to make them last indefinitely. I would get one of those pen stands for it, maybe that has a soft cloth material for the pen to rest on. Something like this, but with velvet or microfiber where the pen rests...

[sirgilbert357]

It would be great . I guess the lacquer wouldn't react with metal, even if it tends to react with paint. There are so many types of lacquer that there *has to* be at least one which would be good for this purpose. I'll ask my fellow chemist.

 

I'm betting there's a lacquer out there that will work with the metal itself (think of all the stainless steel door knobs that have a glossy lacquer finish; or the brass hand rails with a glossy lacquer -- even brass horn instruments like trombones, trumpets, etc use a lacquer that is rather durable), but I'm wondering if there is anything that would react with the actual oxide layer that makes the metal look blue (among other colors obviously). If all of that is inert and doesn't matter, then there's surely a way to get this pen and then coat it to preserve the colors.

Edited February 11, 2016 by sirgilbert357

[Old_Inkyhand]

 

I'm wondering if there is anything that would react with the actual oxide layer that makes the metal look blue (among other colors obviously). If all of that is inert and doesn't matter, then there's surely a way to get this pen and then coat it to preserve the colors.

I was wondering the same thing, we should ask someone more knowledgeable.

[OakIris]

I look forward to hearing more about your lacquer experiments, sirgilbert (You are going to go through with these experiments for us, aren't you?!? It would indeed be wonderful if you had the time.)

 

I am still hoping that Kaweco customer service will email me back to let me know that there isn't the slightest chance that the finish will fade because they used Precious Heat to anneal the steel, which is much, much better and longer lasting than just Ordinary Heat.....

 

Holly

[Old_Inkyhand]

The future generations would be so grateful, sirgilbert They would surely endow you with an annealed cenotaph. They would stop giving Oscars, which would be replaced with meticulously lacquered Gilberts.

 

There is hope, yay! The Precious Heat is much much better than the Ordinary Heat, and it can be applied only to hand-crafted items made of Precious Steel, sourced from the core of a male unicorn's horn.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Old_Inkyhand

[tinta]

Lately I've been interested in the compact size & the various new iterations of the Liliput. The screw in nib-units are a great feature of this diminutive Kaweco.

 

Though perhaps artistically boring, a solid stainless steel version of the Liliput may prove to be the most durable model in the long run.

(I believe this pen is about double the cost of the basic Liliput model.)

Nevertheless, stainless steel only stains less. It can corrode under certain conditions.

 

I have inherited an older version of a Parker T-ball Jotter from my Father, in brushed stainless steel. It's an excellent finish, though fingerprints do show on the surface.

[OakIris]

^^^ I think you have it all figured out, Old_Inkyhand! Something about a "meticulously lacquered Gilbert" sounds quite appealing, actually, and must indeed be a better reward than a boring, ordinary Oscar.

 

No response from Kaweco yet - come on, Kaweco, it's been a whole 3 hours! (lol - it's almost 9 PM their time so they aren't open and probably weren't open when I sent the email, so I don't expect anything back from them for a day or two at the soonest.)

 

Holly

[OakIris]

The future generations would be so grateful, sirgilbert They would surely endow you with an annealed cenotaph. They would stop giving Oscars, which would be replaced with meticulously lacquered Gilberts.

 

There is hope, yay! The Precious Heat is much much better than the Ordinary Heat, and it can be applied only to hand-crafted items made of Precious Steel, sourced from the core of a male unicorn's horn.

 

 

I think you have it all figured out, Old_Inkyhand! Something about a "meticulously lacquered Gilbert" sounds quite appealing, actually, and must indeed be a better reward than a boring, ordinary Oscar.

 

No response from Kaweco yet - come on, Kaweco, it's been a whole 3 hours! (lol - it's almost 9 PM their time so they aren't open and probably weren't open when I sent the email, so I don't expect anything back from them for a day or two at the soonest.)

 

@tinta - I know what you mean. I would rather have the copper one than the plain stainless (silver) one, but I am afraid that no matter what, a Liliput of some sort is going to find its way to me!

 

Holly

Edited February 11, 2016 by OakIris

[tinta]

 

 

No response from Kaweco yet - come on, Kaweco, it's been a whole 3 hours! (lol - it's almost 9 PM their time so they aren't open and probably weren't open when I sent the email, so I don't expect anything back from them for a day or two at the soonest.)

 

Holly

Holly, Kaweco will respond to your questions. For mine, it took a couple of days for the answers to appear..

I will be curious as to what they say.