Concerning "flex."

[Fountainnib]

Let me begin this post by admitting that I am no expert in handwriting, and that my own handwriting is nothing about which to be proud. That being said, I have observed that the attribute known as "flex" seems to have assumed something of the aspect of a Holy Grail in penmanship. Certainly, I mean no offense to those who value this attribute; and certainly, in the hands of expert penmen, the ability to utilize expressive variance in line thickness evokes my profound admiration: but my worship of flex is tempered by the following considerations:

 

1) I have read stories of modern and antique nibs being destroyed in the attempt to achieve line-thickness variation.

2) I have seen nineteenth-century and early twentieth-century examples of utilitarian handwriting--business and personal letters and such--that show considerably less flex than one typically finds in latter-day attempts to achieve this quality with a fountain pen.

3) Based on my observations under 2), as well as my own handwriting, and that of members of my family's older generation, it is my impression that, except for calligraphy and the most exalted examples of Spencerian handwriting, flex is something that usually happens naturally, without much conscious effort on the part of the penman. Even most modern rigid-nibbed fountain pens produce a natural and subtle line variation which, while far short of Spencerian standards, is nonetheless most attractive and expressive.

4) As one who regards the fountain pen as a useful tool, as well as a thing of beauty in its own right, I am personally most interested in pens that can write rapidly and easily on a variety of papers, and which are robust enough to survive in a utilitarian environment. It is my understanding, based in part on personal experience, that the more flexible nibs tend to be harder to manage, slower, and more fussy in regard to paper. It is also my understanding that the general trend of fountain pen nibs since the 1920s has been towards rigidity, reliability, and durability--for our forebears did not regard the fountain pen as an exotic trophy, but, rather, as a practical writing instrument, as we regard the computer today.

5) My father had an incredibly beautiful handwriting; but even though he used to reminisce about the eyedropper-filled Waterman's fountain pen that he owned as a boy, which, he related, was capable of great variation in line thickness, his own handwriting, with both fountain pens and ball-point pens, showed no more than the subtle variations in thickness of line to which I have already referred. Beauty and elegance in penmanship does not necessarily require flexibility in the thickness of the line.

6) When I learned penmanship in the early 1950s, using dip pens and inkwells recessed in screwed-to-the-floor desks, my teachers said nothing about variations in line thickness as a criterion of good handwriting--even though they apparently covered everything else, and drove me half-crazy with their punctiliousness.

 

As regards the whole matter of "flex," I am reminded of the exaggerated messa di voce that was much in fashion amongst early-music musicians in the 1970s. Although loosely based upon the writings of Quantz and other 18th-century theorists, their execution of this adornment transcended the boundaries of good taste and belonged--like so much that they did (and still do, alas) to the realm of mannerism. Without, once again, impugning those who rightly cultivate the beautiful and expressive art of flexibility of line variation, I am sensible of the need to beware of being more orthodox than the ancients themselves in this respect.

[Snoutmol]

I've never used a flex pen, but I think people who do tend to use it artistically, rather than as their everyday, practical pen. Also, I've always suspected that people in the past didn't always needlessly adorn their writing like the myths sometimes say. (Although I guess there wasn't a whole lot of other things for them to do.) You have confirmed this for me. But despite flex not having as much historical value, it does look cool.

[Cryptos]

Excellent OP!

 

This one too believes that many people with an interest in flexible fountain pens - especially those with no experience of any kind of flexible nibs - are conflating general handwriting with calligraphy. That is to say, they give the impression that if they buy a flexible nib - particularly a venerated vintage - it will suddenly imbue their self-perceived mundane handwriting with at the very least a whiff of the calligrapher about it, and by association, style and grace.

 

As you have noted, the general writing of the past did not employ monstrous shades, but leaned toward a more subtle swelling.

[KellyMcJ]

I have a couple of old letters (late 18- early 1900's) at home. It is clear from these that people valued handwriting more than the general populace seems to today - the capitals are fancier, for instance, and they are all written in cursive (print? What's that? LOL) but they are pretty much illegible. They were certainly not written with line variation, although I'm not sure what sort of pen was used.

 

Come to think of it, being an antique collector I have several turn of the century handwriting examples. (many are simply notations in the margins of old books). I should photograph them all! Not a flex pen to be seen, in fact, many are pencil or something like a medium(?) nib fountain or dip pen.

[Inky.Fingers]

About line variation...flexing is not the only way to get shading: pencil, broad nib, flex nib, even ball point pen.

You are right! Just the a little pressure in the right spot with good strong penmanship skills, anything can go.

 

 

 

 

Here's some from Googlelious.

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/wLuOfpp.jpg

http://www.leighreyes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/P1110984.jpg

Edited January 8, 2016 by #InkyFingers

[Abner C. Kemp]

Well if I'm not mistaken the whole idea of flex in spencerian was to use it sparingly to add a bit of flair to the writing. I would imagine that if someone who was proficient at spencerian was trying to write out something quickly, they may forego the flex entirely as it slows writing speed. Thus, if your looking at samples of business writing or postcards I wouldn't expect to see much flexing going on. If you take a look at carefully written letters or official documents in spencerian you will definitely see flexing. Now if you look at copperplate you should see some noticeable line variation as pressure on downward strokes is a hallmark of that writing style. What is important to remember is that "back in the day" flexing was done at a controlled pressure. In other words, the penman wasn't sitting there trying to squeeze every ounce of line variation out of his pen -- there was some added pressure to achieve line variation but nothing like the elbow grease used to flex a Noodler's Ahab. Thus, the line variation is more subtle. Part of the issue with affordable "modern" flex pens is that they require a ton of pressure to flex and so you either flex or you do not flex. In other words, it is very difficult to add minor variation -- you either press down and open up those stiff steel tines or you get a monotone line but there's not much in between.

 

As far as practicality goes, I don't think a flex nib has ever been particularly practical. Flex nibs as a rule are more difficult to control making them more difficult to write with quickly. I imagine the incredibly soft Waterman Pink nib would have been an absolute pain to write a quick note with. I'm sure there were a few people with incredibly light hands but for the majority of users, a manifold nib is always going to provide the best consistency. The whole idea of the flex nib is to add a bit of flair to your writing, it is not really meant to be a practical application. I would actually argue that the modern flex nib is more practical, a Noodler's Ahab nib is stiff enough that with normal pressure I can write a very consistent line. I've actually used a Noodler's Nib Creeper for quick note taking without any issues. But, generally, if you're buying a flexible nib you plan on taking your time, sitting down at a nice desk, and carefully penning a letter to a dear friend.

[Cryptos]

Totally agree. And this is one of the reasons why EoC thinks that Pilot's FA nib is perfectly fine for such writing - even for Western hands. The only downside to it is that it could benefit from being a little finer. Many of the other soft Japanese nibs would also probably be great for some nicely controlled Spencerian script.

 

 

For those who like to play with numbers:

 

A Waterman's 52V sold for $2.50, so let's assume the larger 52 went for $5. Five dollars in 1920 is equivalent of around $60 today, according to various websites (averaged and rounded up for your convenience). As David Nishimura points out in his excellent article - HERE - this model is not at all rare. So why is anyone paying significantly more than $100 for one? The linked article has some thoughts on this too, and if it is correct about people having buckets full of 52s... well, you can draw your own conclusions.

 

And imagine the horror of accidentally leaning too hard on an expensive Waterman's nib. For the modern monetary equivalent of a standard BCHR Waterman's 52 in 1920 you could have a Desiderata pen - SEE HERE - that uses a $2 dip nib. The user doesn't EVER have to worry about ruining this nib!

[KellyMcJ]

For the modern monetary equivalent of a standard BCHR Waterman's 52 in 1920 you could have a Desiderata pen - SEE HERE - that uses a $2 dip nib. The user doesn't EVER have to worry about ruining this nib!

Holy..... (bleep)! That is incredible! If I can ever do 1/10th that I would be happy! Now I need to look up that pen...

[Cryptos]

Just be aware that Schin Loong (in the video) is a superb calligrapher. She makes everything look very easy, yes?

 

As for the Desiderata, they can be found HERE, though I would recommend dropping the owner (Pierre) an email as it is a one-man operation. Just a satisfied customer, no other stake in this!

[inkstainedruth]

I've never used a flex pen, but I think people who do tend to use it artistically, rather than as their everyday, practical pen. Also, I've always suspected that people in the past didn't always needlessly adorn their writing like the myths sometimes say. (Although I guess there wasn't a whole lot of other things for them to do.) You have confirmed this for me. But despite flex not having as much historical value, it does look cool.

I've seen old letters (from my grandmother and/or great aunts -- maybe from my great-grandmother) that definitely had flex to some of the letters. What they were written with is beyond me. I do know that my mother had nothing much good to say about fountain pens (she grew up during the Depression, and given that my grandfather was a coal miner in WV, I am betting that those old letters could easily have been done with a dip pen.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Sailor Kenshin]

Excellent OP!

 

This one too believes that many people with an interest in flexible fountain pens - especially those with no experience of any kind of flexible nibs - are conflating general handwriting with calligraphy. That is to say, they give the impression that if they buy a flexible nib - particularly a venerated vintage - it will suddenly imbue their self-perceived mundane handwriting with at the very least a whiff of the calligrapher about it, and by association, style and grace.

 

As you have noted, the general writing of the past did not employ monstrous shades, but leaned toward a more subtle swelling.

 

Yup.

[ac12]

+1 to the OP.

 

IMHO, flex is a fad that a lot of people are on. And unfortunately, that affects the newbies, who then want a flex nib pen as their first and only fountain pen, not realizing what they are asking for. And unfortunately, that also gets MANY people flexing nibs beyond what they can do, and springing the nib. As FarmBoy said, "every nib will flex ONCE"...and it may not spring back.

 

Unfortunately this has people chasing flex nibs, thinking it will magically make their handwriting really nice. But many people are forgetting basic penmanship. One cannot have good handwriting with a flex nib if one has poor penmanship.

 

As for the older writings. I found that with a dip pen, depending on the nib used, it can be quite easy to put a little bit of line variation into the writing, without really trying. I've even done so with nibs that would not be considered flex nib, like an Eagle 830 bowl nib. So some of the older writing can look like flex writing, but it may not be intentional.

 

Personally, I found it easiest to write flex with an oblique dip pen holder and an appropriate nib. Holding a FP at the correct angle to write flex, at my normal slant angle, is DIFFICULT. Hence my preference to use an oblique dip pen holder. And I don't care for the upright writing for the standard tripod grip. To me, it does not look as elegant as the slanted writing.

Edited January 9, 2016 by ac12

[linearM]

Personally I enjoy using a pen with some flex when writing letters. First you need a light hand, second you need to learn how to control the stroke pressure, third don't try to push the flex nib to extremes. One of the first things that attracted me to fountain pens was looking at letters and cards I found from the early 1900's. I noticed a very pleasant line variation, not extreme but enough to make the handwriting interesting. I found several sellers that carried pens with flex nibs, told them I was just starting and wanted help with finding the right pen. They didn't try to sell me a wet noodle and I wasn't looking for extreme line variation. I found it took practice to get the results that I was after, I developed a sort of cadence in my writing with just a little more pressure with the downstroke. I wasn't after Spencerian or Copperplate. The result was basically normal handwriting with a bit of line variation and written at very close to normal speed.

 

In reading a lot of posts especially by newbies who seem to feel that a flex nib is what they want and they want a nib that will give them the greatest possible line variation, something I don't feel most fountain pen nibs were designed for. I feel they will most likely meet with disaster, frustrated because they lack control, disillusioned because they destroyed a good flex nib, or frustrated because they have a contemporary flex nib that really doesn't flex.

[KellyMcJ]

Old handwriting samples!

 

Robert Underwood Johnson (Tesla's close friend)

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag402/klmcjilton/20160109_171012_zps5hvtsw9i.jpg

 

Eagle Iron Works

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag402/klmcjilton/Mobile%20Uploads/20160109_171033-1_zpsayidxoko.jpg

 

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag402/klmcjilton/Mobile%20Uploads/20160109_171054-1_zpsoqiixutq.jpg

 

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag402/klmcjilton/Mobile%20Uploads/20160109_171105-1_zpshvzg3ar4.jpg

[Abner C. Kemp]

Totally agree. And this is one of the reasons why EoC thinks that Pilot's FA nib is perfectly fine for such writing - even for Western hands. The only downside to it is that it could benefit from being a little finer. Many of the other soft Japanese nibs would also probably be great for some nicely controlled Spencerian script.

 

 

For those who like to play with numbers:

 

A Waterman's 52V sold for $2.50, so let's assume the larger 52 went for $5. Five dollars in 1920 is equivalent of around $60 today, according to various websites (averaged and rounded up for your convenience). As David Nishimura points out in his excellent article - HERE - this model is not at all rare. So why is anyone paying significantly more than $100 for one? The linked article has some thoughts on this too, and if it is correct about people having buckets full of 52s... well, you can draw your own conclusions.

 

And imagine the horror of accidentally leaning too hard on an expensive Waterman's nib. For the modern monetary equivalent of a standard BCHR Waterman's 52 in 1920 you could have a Desiderata pen - SEE HERE - that uses a $2 dip nib. The user doesn't EVER have to worry about ruining this nib!

 

 

The Watermans are expensive because of the nib, not the pen. There were a ton of 52Vs but not all of them sported full flex nibs and many of the nibs were either ruined or discarded at some point. The Desiderata is a nice option but it will not offer anywhere close to the same writing experience as vintage flex. A dip nib can achieve similar line variation but steel dip nibs are quite scratchy as they do not have any tipping and the tines do not spring back in the same manor as a vintage flex nib.

[Cryptos]

The bit about the nib being the expensive part is well understood and is not disputed. However, it would appear that some people selling Waterman 52s are hoping the hype, plus their ambiguous descriptions, will lead potential buyers into making an incorrect assumption about the pens for sale and bid high based on that assumption. That is disingenuous at the very least.

 

 

By the way, you have your assessment back to front. The snap back on a good dip pen is far superior to most flexible fountain pen nibs, and the hairlines are without compare. You will be lucky to find a vintage flex pen that offers anywhere close to the same writing experience as a Desiderata. And you almost certainly won't find one at the same price!

 

 

Oh, and while steel dip pens are intrinsically scratchier than any tipped nib - flexible or not - they feel considerably less so in the hands of someone who knows how to use one properly. As a living example, EoC can use a zebra G nib as easily and as smoothly as any of the tipped nibs he has tried, and (up until now) has yet to catch the tines on the paper.

[linearM]

I have Waterman #12's, Moore Non Leakables, and a Weidlich eye dropper filler. The Moores and Weidlich have amazing snap back, excellent hairlines, they are 14K and tipped. They seem to be the transition between the dip pens and the later fountain pen nibs. As such they possess many of the qualities of the dip pen.

 

I have tried using dip pens for correspondence and hate having to be perpetually dipping into the ink to complete a sentence. A good fountain pen with a nib that does what you want is far superior as far as I am concerned. Of course I am looking for a pen for general writing not flourishes, calligraphy, or ornamental handwriting.

 

As far as that goes a cursive italic, stub, or flex nib are all equally enjoyable to use. All are capable of giving line variation to provide a bit of character to ones handwriting.

 

KellyMcJ, thanks for the writing samples.

[Cryptos]

 

I have tried using dip pens for correspondence and hate having to be perpetually dipping into the ink to complete a sentence. A good fountain pen with a nib that does what you want is far superior as far as I am concerned. Of course I am looking for a pen for general writing not flourishes, calligraphy, or ornamental handwriting.

 

A matter of personal taste of course, but in general EoC would have liked a fountain pen that writes exactly the same as a dip pen but with a tipped nib too. However, operational parameters aside, this one gets better written results using a dip pen than any of the tipped flex nibs so far tried (not a huge same admmittedly).

 

 

I have Waterman #12's, Moore Non Leakables, and a Weidlich eye dropper filler. The Moores and Weidlich have amazing snap back, excellent hairlines, they are 14K and tipped. They seem to be the transition between the dip pens and the later fountain pen nibs. As such they possess many of the qualities of the dip pen.

 

Indeed, but EoC merely noted that they are not easy to find. EoC has yet to find one. Then again, he is not in the lucky position that our American friends find themselves in of having easy access to markets.

[carlos.q]

I have absolutely no use for flex pens as my pens are mainly used for rapid note taking. For me, a bit of flex, or a stub nib, is nice for signatures but nothing more...

[Abner C. Kemp]

The bit about the nib being the expensive part is well understood and is not disputed. However, it would appear that some people selling Waterman 52s are hoping the hype, plus their ambiguous descriptions, will lead potential buyers into making an incorrect assumption about the pens for sale and bid high based on that assumption. That is disingenuous at the very least.

 

 

By the way, you have your assessment back to front. The snap back on a good dip pen is far superior to most flexible fountain pen nibs, and the hairlines are without compare. You will be lucky to find a vintage flex pen that offers anywhere close to the same writing experience as a Desiderata. And you almost certainly won't find one at the same price!

 

 

Oh, and while steel dip pens are intrinsically scratchier than any tipped nib - flexible or not - they feel considerably less so in the hands of someone who knows how to use one properly. As a living example, EoC can use a zebra G nib as easily and as smoothly as any of the tipped nibs he has tried, and (up until now) has yet to catch the tines on the paper.

 

 

I said the tines on a vintage flex nib do not spring back in the same manor as a steel dip nib, the debate as to whether the snap back on a dip nib is more desirable is more a matter of personal preference. Certainly, a dip nib like the Zebra G is going to be the best option if you are looking to write slow calligraphy and really optimize the flex capacity of a nib. I don't think anyone would argue that. However, for more normal correspondence, for instance a letter penned to a friend, I think many would prefer the more supple soft feel of a full flex vintage nib. Both because of the smoothness and because the nib is a bit more user friendly. Those that are true calligraphers obviously will have different needs.

 

To be fair I've never used a Desidera although it is on my list. I've tried a number of dip nibs and also put a few different dip nibs in a Noodler's Ahab. They worked well enough and I enjoyed the line variation, but for my uses they were too difficult to use for long periods. Then again, I am not an experienced calligrapher. I do own a few semi-flex fountain pens, no waterman pink nibs here, but I find that I can get enough line variation for a very nice effect without having to deal with the scratchiness and difficulty I've experienced with dip nibs.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Abner C. Kemp