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For What Is French Ruled Notepaper Used?


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108 replies to this topic

#21 antigone

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 08:48

Wow, Anne-Sophie, I didn't know that nice french stationery came at such a high price. Sounds like hell to me sad.gif
And I can't believe how different that school system is though its just a bunch of kilometers away from wher I went to school. Has french government never debated about changing the educational system? I know, german pupils are not known to be the best educated kids in the world, but at least they are not the unhappiest mellow.gif

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#22 adair

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 12:39

Actually, I am very impressed by the French and German school systems, compared to ours here in the USA. I will never forget visiting a German classroom equivalent to one of junior high school levels. Every student had their orderly pen and pencil case, full of sharp pencils for both writing and drawing and either a Geha or a Pelikan fountain pen. Each also had their neat pile of graph paper. No cries of "I don't have a pencil!" or "Can I have some paper?" that one hears every day in an American classroom. Everyone was prepared.

#23 Headache Corporation (TM)

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 02:14

Anne-Sophie,

Thank you very much for your insights. Your answer was really what I was looking for when I started the thread, except that I wasn't sure that kind of answer existed. It seemed as if there would HAVE TO BE some kind of system to using all those lines.

My hat's off to you! happyberet.gif

-David.

#24 Nibble

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 13:28

What a very interesting thread. I feel it should be an entry on Wikipedia, though I am much too stupid to know how to do such a thing.

I must go to Paris and buy some of this paper. (Perhaps I will become a French Intellectual. No, I think it takes more than that... )

Thank you, Anne-Sophie.

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#25 Anne-Sophie

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 19:31

QUOTE(adair @ May 9 2007, 11:21 PM) View Post
This has been a fascinating thread. Thanks, Anne-Sophie! I know that Clairfontaine makes notebooks that are French ruled, but what about pads or loose paper thus ruled? I haven't seen it on any website. French ruled certainly improves handwriting and creates a very classical-looking regularity.


I don't know where you are from, but in the USA, I cannot find any loose paper which is Seyes ruled. You have to make your own with your printer and the template provided in a link given by a fellow FPN member.


http://www.fountainp...p?showtopic=792



Is it fair for an intelligent and family oriented mammal to be separated from his/her family and spend his/her life starved in a concrete jail?

#26 adair

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 19:44


I don't know where you are from, but in the USA, I cannot find any loose paper which is Seyes ruled. You have to make your own with your printer and the template provided in a link given by a fellow FPN member.


Thank you so much, Anne-Sophie. I am also in the USA. Thanks to your posts, I have ordered a Clairefontaine notebook French Ruled from Daily Planner (the old Lincoln Stationers) and have already followed your link and printed out several French Ruled loose-leaf sheets. For now, my handwriting has been slowed down by trying to keep all of the correct proportions. With practice, it should become more natural. I love the neatness and regularity that is achieved with this paper! I'm beginning to like it even more than gridded paper. Too bad that neither Clairefontaine nor Rhodia produce a whole pad of this format. Wouldn't it also be something if we could convince Moleskine to bring out a French Ruled notebook or Cahier? Many thanks again for your richly informative posts.

#27 DarkskyZ

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 10:52

Hello,

As I am French myself happyberet.gif and recently working my penmanship back to what it was in primary school, I thought I may jump in and add some explanation on how to use "Sys" i.e. French ruling.

The main idea as you undestood from what Nibble said before is that you are supposed to base your letters on the bold lines.

Then the thin lines may (must ?) be used as a guidance to form your letters as follows
- Capital letters are supposed to be 3 thin line high and 2 thin lines below for lower loops if any.
- Lower case letters
* main part is supposed to be written between the base bold line and the first thin line up.
* upper loops are to be made up to the third thin line up
* upper strokes are made up to the second thin line up.
* lower loops and lower stokes (as in "p") are made dow to the second thin line down

I understand that reading all this is somewhat difficult so here is what it should look like :




This is just how I was taught penmanship back in the early 80's here in France. And as was said before, "Sys" ruled paper is still the paper you find the most easily anywhere in the country nowadays !

Hope this helps.

Excuse my French...ness :)
Here in France we are surrounded by Clairefontaine but not a single dealer has ever heard about Noodler's so :
Would trade Clairefontaine for Noodler's (France to US trade, sort of...). If interested, please PM me.

#28 antigone

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 07:59

eureka.gif
Thats exactly how I learned to write cursive in first grade!

But in german primary schools the ruling changes every year. We have four lines in the first grade (like the sys ruling, only that all lines are equally bold) with a little more space between the lines:
The second grade copybooks have also four lines per line, only more narrow. In third grade you get to write on two lines:
and in grade four you eventually learn to write on a single line.
Do american and french school kids write on the same ruling all the years?

#29 JohnS-MI

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 15:47

QUOTE(antigone @ May 14 2007, 03:59 AM) View Post
Do american and french school kids write on the same ruling all the years?


I might not be the best person to answer for American kids, as my "kids" are adults now.

In the early grades, the paper is turned landscape (sideways) and ruled with a rather wide rule, but I don't have the dimension. Also there is a dotted (or faint) centerline between baselines. It is the height used for body characters with no ascenders, c, e, m, etc. Ascenders and descenders are midway to the appropriate centerline or baseline, by eye, no line for guidance.

Later, they use paper in normal portrait orientation with only baselines ruled. Normally a wide rule is used in elementary grades. In high school and beyond, people would use a narrow or wide rule according to preference, where a narrow rule is about 0.25" or 6 mm. Various wider rules exist, 0.375", 8 mm, or 9 mm, based on brand and country of origin. One popular brand, Ampad, offers three rules, narrow, 1/4"; college 9/32"; and wide, 11/32" (6.3 mm, 7.1 mm, 8.7 mm).


#30 rosarosam

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 06:06

And the left hand of the paper, before the red line, is where the teacher was writing the nasty things she had to say about my bad English...




#31 Ray-Vigo

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 06:18

French ruled note paper is paper that has been subject to Norman conquest.

#32 Stylo

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 15:58

I have used it until I graduated from high-school, but I really didn't know it was called "Sys" (maybe I just forgot?), and I didn't know it was called "French ruled" outside of France laugh.gif

The most widely used form of Clairefontaine paper, at least for me, was the "copie double." These are twin sheets, with obviously four pages to write on. I think they were the norm for homeworks and essays. The single sheet papers were meant to go into binders.

Anne-Sophie obviously knows a lot more about the history of pen and paper in French schools, but during my time, we all used the "bleu royal", which I think Waterman calls Florida blue in the U.S. From what I remember, bleu royal simply referred to the well known washable blue, and of course, funky smelling ink eradicators were widely used. I think it was only in high school that we could use ball points, and darker shades of blue ink, such as the blue black. Just plain black ink was considered very grownup, but I think most profs found it ugly and harder on the eyes than blue ink.

#33 Momomar

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 01:29

Anne-Sophie, et al,
Thank you for THE most interesting thread read in days and days!

Makes me want to hook up with DarkskyZ and do some swapping.







Edited to correct spelling of DarkskyZ

Edited by Momomar, 17 May 2007 - 01:32.

Flying by the seat of my pants.

#34 Peter Thomlinson

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 13:23

QUOTE(Momomar @ May 17 2007, 02:29 AM) View Post
Anne-Sophie, et al,
Thank you for THE most interesting thread read in days and days!

Makes me want to hook up with DarkskyZ and do some swapping.

Edited to correct spelling of DarkskyZ

What is DarkskyZ?? Is that a word in the American language, that know one else understands??

#35 DarkskyZ

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 14:22

QUOTE(Peter Thomlinson @ May 17 2007, 01:23 PM) View Post
What is DarkskyZ?? Is that a word in the American language, that know one else understands??


That is just me blush.gif or my nickname to be truly accurate. Even if I am French I truly hope non American people undesrtand me doh.gif

Excuse my French...ness :)
Here in France we are surrounded by Clairefontaine but not a single dealer has ever heard about Noodler's so :
Would trade Clairefontaine for Noodler's (France to US trade, sort of...). If interested, please PM me.

#36 Anne-Sophie

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 04:40

QUOTE(Stylo @ May 16 2007, 11:58 AM) View Post
I have used it until I graduated from high-school, but I really didn't know it was called "Sys" (maybe I just forgot?), and I didn't know it was called "French ruled" outside of France laugh.gif

The most widely used form of Clairefontaine paper, at least for me, was the "copie double." These are twin sheets, with obviously four pages to write on. I think they were the norm for homeworks and essays. The single sheet papers were meant to go into binders.

Anne-Sophie obviously knows a lot more about the history of pen and paper in French schools, but during my time, we all used the "bleu royal", which I think Waterman calls Florida blue in the U.S. From what I remember, bleu royal simply referred to the well known washable blue, and of course, funky smelling ink eradicators were widely used. I think it was only in high school that we could use ball points, and darker shades of blue ink, such as the blue black. Just plain black ink was considered very grownup, but I think most profs found it ugly and harder on the eyes than blue ink.



Thanks for reminding me Stylo. smile.gif

The pages I wrote my essays on were copies doubles. Since I've always had a big handwriting, I used a lot of paper, as a result, I always bought "generic paper" from departement stores starting almost the day they set up the "back to school" floor.

I did not go on vacation so strolling the ailes full of brand new stationnery stuff was a great pastime.

Edited by Anne-Sophie, 10 June 2007 - 15:44.

Is it fair for an intelligent and family oriented mammal to be separated from his/her family and spend his/her life starved in a concrete jail?

#37 Stylo

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 20:00

QUOTE(Anne-Sophie @ May 17 2007, 09:40 PM) View Post
... used lot's of paper, as a result I always bought "generic paper" from departement stores starting almost the day they set up the "back to school" floor....


I don't know if the periods and regions of our living in France are the same, but the only department store I remember that might sell back to school stationary is Prisunic, AKA Prizu. Does that ring a bell? It may not even be around anymore. Well, I just googled it and it seems like it is part of Monoprix (vaguely remember that name too). Did department stores like Lafayette and Printemps sell any stationary type back to school merchandise?

I can't remember where I bought my paper. Perhaps it was sometimes at the supermarket, or more likely stationary stores and small tabac/stationaries. I think I have also used generic papers and notebooks, but at some point I only used Clairefontaine. I admit, I think I was a litle bit of snob when I was younger laugh.gif , at least for a few little things like that blush.gif


#38 Anne-Sophie

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 17:48

QUOTE(Stylo @ May 18 2007, 04:00 PM) View Post
QUOTE(Anne-Sophie @ May 17 2007, 09:40 PM) View Post
... used lot's of paper, as a result I always bought "generic paper" from departement stores starting almost the day they set up the "back to school" floor....


I don't know if the periods and regions of our living in France are the same, but the only department store I remember that might sell back to school stationary is Prisunic, AKA Prizu. Does that ring a bell? It may not even be around anymore. Well, I just googled it and it seems like it is part of Monoprix (vaguely remember that name too). Did department stores like Lafayette and Printemps sell any stationary type back to school merchandise?

I can't remember where I bought my paper. Perhaps it was sometimes at the supermarket, or more likely stationary stores and small tabac/stationaries. I think I have also used generic papers and notebooks, but at some point I only used Clairefontaine. I admit, I think I was a litle bit of snob when I was younger laugh.gif , at least for a few little things like that blush.gif


We did have a Monoprix in town but it was a tiny store, not enough room for specialty items.

The other department store was "Les Nouvelles Galleries" (now part of Lafayette), the whole floor basement was used for seasonal items.

In mid August, they had the school stuff all set up.
I would go everyday after my math remedial private tutoring to see if they had already set up. I usually had the floor to myself since most everybody was still on vacation.

As soon as possible I would buy huge bags of plain copies doubles and punched single sheet/copies doubles. I would also load up on generic cartridges.

I usually waited until class started for anything else because I needed to save money in case I needed to buy specialty paper such as grid, drawing, velum or thin paper for math figures (don't know the name) or items such as a special kind of binder, pencil, notebook the teacher would want.

I bought a substancial pencil set in 8th grade and used them way past university. I also bought a nice set of fine line markers.








Is it fair for an intelligent and family oriented mammal to be separated from his/her family and spend his/her life starved in a concrete jail?

#39 Peter Thomlinson

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 08:04

QUOTE(DarkskyZ @ May 17 2007, 03:22 PM) View Post
QUOTE(Peter Thomlinson @ May 17 2007, 01:23 PM) View Post
What is DarkskyZ?? Is that a word in the American language, that know one else understands??


That is just me blush.gif or my nickname to be truly accurate. Even if I am French I truly hope non American people undesrtand me doh.gif

Thankee for ze explanatione - I only understand French with ze French accent - I am learning to speak ze Americano - but being ze clean living English bastardo I can only understand ze Cockney language in ze impropper way. And I spell in ze cockneeey way too!

From ze Americano, Pomme, Cockneed, English biro chewing pelikano from Londinium -- Peter

#40 rosarosam

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 02:56

[/quote]
Pomme
[/quote]

Pomme being French for Pom... happyberet.gif

The use of different types of paper depended also on the teachers. I remember having a teacher obsessed with the 'petites feuilles a grands carreaux' i.e. small sheets with big squares printed on it.






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