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Copy Of Pen & Message Cigar Ink

pen & message cigar copy copy brownish green

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17 replies to this topic

#1 Chrissy

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 16:40

As soon as I saw 'dcwaites' Ink Blend Evaluation form, I had to print it off and complete it after it spurred me on to produce my own copy of Pen & Message Cigar ink.

 

I have been trying to produce this copy for a while, but I couldn't do it because I was using a washable blue element that made it fail. So I selected a bottle of Noodler's Bad Blue Heron and started again. The permanent blue element doesn't have to be Noodler's Bad Blue Heron. However, it does have to be a permanent, waterproof, single dye royal blue type ink.

 

The green I actually used in my recipe isn't available as it was a potential Diamine Green shimmer ink that didn't make it to production. However, I'm reliably informed that Diamine Jade Green or Light Green will work as well. In fact any washable bright yellowish green might work.

 

The chroma test will separate 3 dyes for you to replicate: Permanent blue, terracotta and bright green. You can only replicate that chroma test if you use a permanent blue ink. If you don't the blue and terracotta will mix and make dark brown.

 

fpn_1450110190__pen__message_cigar1.jpgfpn_1450110480__pen__message_cigar2.jpg



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#2 Tas

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 17:00

:yikes:



#3 migo984

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 18:37

Using some Japanese dyes I've managed to replicate the colour, and the colour change characteristics of Cigar, but have only partially succeeded in achieving the wonderful intense Cigar copper sheen that makes it so special. To me that's the critical element; I got great shading, like the original, but only a bit of copper sheen.
I can't tell from your scan if the sheen is there? Hats off if it is.

Verba volant, scripta manent


#4 The Good Captain

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 10:35

On my screen it looks hellishly like Noodler's El Lawrence, which I love.


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"Meddler's 'Salamander' - almost as good as the real thing!"


#5 Chrissy

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 10:43

Isn't Noodler's El Lawrence more of a green/black type? I once had a sample from Goulets, and being clumsy I knocked it over. That's the only sample I've ever knocked over, so I remember it well. Unfortunately, I never managed to try it out in a pen.

 

I have no more P&M Cigar left to test or send you as a sample, as I only had a small sample to start with.  (Thank you Tas :)

 

I found out that the Montblanc 147 cartridge pen that I used it in didn't like it for some reason, so it leaked out of the cartridge I filled with it, while inside the pen that was lying horizontally inside my pen case. That has never happened before. However, I rescued it in time to swap what is left into my Libelle pen that I used on the Evaluation form.



#6 The Good Captain

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 11:00

Well, my bottle of El Lawrence is a 'browner' version of Salamander, so I would class it as a true khaki rather than an olive green. But of course, that's just how I perceive it. I'll include some examples in my next letter.


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"Meddler's 'Salamander' - almost as good as the real thing!"


#7 migo984

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 16:53

On my screen it looks hellishly like Noodler's El Lawrence, which I love.


I have both and they're quite different. I liken El Lawrence to old sump oil :-)

Verba volant, scripta manent


#8 Chrissy

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 18:11

As an addition to my original post I'm attaching the chroma strips that I did to show the P&M Cigar as well as the components I used to make the copy.

 

As you can see from the chromas, if you imagine overlaying D.Terracotta and D.Green, you have the basics of P&M Cigar, Then what you need to add is a waterproof blue that has some sheen. It's the blue element that will give you sheen in your copy. The other two elements in the original have no sheen. Noodler's B.B.Heron seems to have some sheen in it.

 

I don't have any permanent blue inks that match the blue in Cigar, but it didn't seem to make a huge difference in the copy.

 

fpn_1450289431__pen__message_cigar_0004a



#9 Tas

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 20:03

Beautiful



#10 dcwaites

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 21:02

Permanent blues that I can think of that might match are -

Noodler's Aquamarine (made exclusively for Swisher, but someone might have some they could let you have) ;

Koh-i-noor Document Blue;

perhaps Platinum Permanent (Pigmented) Blue.


fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif

 

 

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And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”

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#11 Chrissy

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 22:17

Permanent blues that I can think of that might match are -

Noodler's Aquamarine (made exclusively for Swisher, but someone might have some they could let you have) ;

Koh-i-noor Document Blue;

perhaps Platinum Permanent (Pigmented) Blue.

 

Thank you for that dcwaites.   :)  I have chroma tested every single blue ink that I have, and it took some doing I can tell you.  :wacko:  They are either not single dyes (i.e. they have added purple or red) or they do not match that blue in Cigar, or they aren't waterproof. I wondered if that blue might just be Sailor Blue. But it wouldn't be such a short chroma if it wasn't waterproof, and I didn't think that Sailor Blue was waterproof. The nearest in colour was Waterman Florida Blue.

 

Noodle's B.B.Heron works reasonably well though.



#12 fireant

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 00:36

Wow.



#13 Chrissy

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 16:10

You're welcome.  :)



#14 ManofKent

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 10:58

Chrissy was kind enough to send me a sample to play with. I've not tried the genuine article to compare it to, but this is a very nice ink: 

 

CIGAR.jpg



#15 white_lotus

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 11:14

The current version of Sailor's Four Seasons Rikyu-cha is the same as Cigar.



#16 Chrissy

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 22:00

The current version of Sailor's Four Seasons Rikyu-cha is the same as Cigar.

 

Yes, I agree with you.  :)



#17 Chrissy

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 22:02

Chrissy was kind enough to send me a sample to play with. I've not tried the genuine article to compare it to, but this is a very nice ink: 

 

attachicon.gifCIGAR.jpg

You're welcome.   :)



#18 migo984

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 22:09

The current version of Sailor's Four Seasons Rikyu-cha is the same as Cigar.


Mine differs.

Verba volant, scripta manent







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