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Sacs: Silicone Vs. Rubber?

esterbrook sac

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12 replies to this topic

#1 PaperQueen

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 02:10

Has anyone tried silicone sacs in an Estie?

 

http://www.vintagepe...acs_seals.shtml

 

From the description, it sounds like they'd have a bit more longevity, but then again, I'm a complete newbie at this whole "take it apart and put it together" thing.

 

Also, as long as I have your attention....

 

What's the best resource for purchasing sacs, talc, shellac, etc.? My newest Estie just arrived with a loose nib section (so loose it falls out). From what I've gleaned in other posts, the solution is to apply a thin coat of shellac, let it dry overnight, then try to pressure fit the section into the body, so....gotta get my hands on shellac. 

 

Esterbrooks = Tinker Toys for pen junkies  :bunny01:


Edited by PaperQueen, 22 November 2015 - 02:12.

Why are there fourteen samples of dark plum ink on my desk? Because I still haven't found the right shade.

Is that a problem...???  : : : sigh : : : 

 

Update: Great. Finally found one I love (Lamy Dark Lilac) but I can't get more. Ah, life in my inky world....


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#2 FarmBoy

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 03:38

You will be fine with a standard latex sac.

 

I'd try Andersen Pens or Pentooling for what you need.

 

FB


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#3 pajaro

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 03:45

Has anyone tried silicone sacs in an Estie?

 

http://www.vintagepe...acs_seals.shtml

 

From the description, it sounds like they'd have a bit more longevity, but then again, I'm a complete newbie at this whole "take it apart and put it together" thing.

 

Also, as long as I have your attention....

 

What's the best resource for purchasing sacs, talc, shellac, etc.? My newest Estie just arrived with a loose nib section (so loose it falls out). From what I've gleaned in other posts, the solution is to apply a thin coat of shellac, let it dry overnight, then try to pressure fit the section into the body, so....gotta get my hands on shellac. 

 

Esterbrooks = Tinker Toys for pen junkies  :bunny01:

 

I have used silicone sacs, one in an M2, and one in an LJ.  They seem to work OK.  Read on. 

 

You will be fine with a standard latex sac.

 

I'd try Andersen Pens or Pentooling for what you need.

 

FB

 

I would agree with this.  I think it's better to resac more often to check out the J-bar and the pen generally.  It isn't that hard to resac one of these. 


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#4 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 14:01

Silicone sacs may not have quite the suck that Latex does.

 

Use Latex on Esties unless you have the rare Crushed Ices where color degradation is a problem.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl



#5 gweimer1

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 16:08

Silicone sacs may not have quite the suck that Latex does.

 

Use Latex on Esties unless you have the rare Crushed Ices where color degradation is a problem.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

 

I've heard that the silicone sacs have some issues with gas permeability.  And, I've been recommended to get PVC sacs from Woodbin for pens that may be prone to ambering and discoloration.



#6 PaperQueen

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 17:04

 

I think it's better to resac more often to check out the J-bar and the pen generally.  It isn't that hard to resac one of these. 

 

 

Silicone sacs may not have quite the suck that Latex does.

 

Use Latex on Esties unless you have the rare Crushed Ices where color degradation is a problem.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

Sage advice, taken to heart. I'll stick with the latex option.

 

Thank you, Oh Wise Ones!


Why are there fourteen samples of dark plum ink on my desk? Because I still haven't found the right shade.

Is that a problem...???  : : : sigh : : : 

 

Update: Great. Finally found one I love (Lamy Dark Lilac) but I can't get more. Ah, life in my inky world....


#7 ac12

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 18:32

 

 
 
I've heard that the silicone sacs have some issues with gas permeability.  And, I've been recommended to get PVC sacs from Woodbin for pens that may be prone to ambering and discoloration.

 

Si sacs do have gas permeability. But depending on the pen, it may or may not be an issue.
In correspondence with David Nishimura, we have come to the conclusion, that if you are going to use it in a clip pen that is stored nib UP, Si sac is fine. The ink in the sac prevents the air from diffusing into the sac. And because the nib is UP, the ink will not leak out of the pen.

HOWEVER, you do NOT want to put a Si sac into a desk pen that is stored nib DOWN. Because in that situation, the gas permeability will cause air to diffuse into the sac (above the ink), and cause the ink to leak down out of the pen, into the pen holder, creating a mess.

The other hassle is the cement. Si sealant dried MUCH slower than shellac. And you need to make sure that the sac is held onto the nipple until the Si sealant cures = HOURS.

So as FB said, for most of us, a latex sac is good enough, and that is what I use.

For a loose section, I do as you wrote.
I will put a THIN coat of shellac on the section, then let it dry for at least an hour, then test fit. If it is loose, I put another coat. I repeat this until the fit is snug. Note I mean snug, not TIGHT, as I do not want to stress the body. It just needs to be snug enough so that the section won't come out on its own, or be too loose that writing is a problem. This also makes it easy to pull the section when you need to change the sac later.

Edited by ac12, 22 November 2015 - 18:36.

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#8 gweimer1

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 18:51

What sort of silicone sealant is used?  Would you just take a toothpick with some of the commercial sealant you find at the hardware store and coat the section with that?



#9 bsenn

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 23:52

What sort of silicone sealant is used?  Would you just take a toothpick with some of the commercial sealant you find at the hardware store and coat the section with that?

 

Per David Nishamura's web site:

Devcon 12045

Loctite 908570

 

In threads here on FPN Ron has suggested Loctite 5040 or 5045.

 

I keep a notebook. Anytime Ron, David, Todd, or one or two others share their wisdom about chemicals, threads, measurements, or something else easy to write down, I write it down...

 

Brian


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#10 zchen

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 05:02

 

 

 And, I've been recommended to get PVC sacs from Woodbin for pens that may be prone to ambering and discoloration.

 

You DO NOT want to use PVC sacs on any celluloid pens that don't have a sac guard. This is what Ron Zorn says about them on his blog post

 

 

The sacs from north of the border were sold as “silicone” and work very well.  I’ve used them for years.  But some testing in the last year or so revealed that the sacs currently in production are not silicone, but PVC.  “So what?” you say.  They used PVC sacs in Parker 51s for years without any problems.  Well, almost no problems.  We see a fair number of aerometric 51s with sac nipples that are soft…. soft enough that they can fail and tear.  The reason?  The plasticizer leaches out of the PVC and softens the celluloid of the sac nipple.  Once it turns soft, it can not be reversed.  The same thing can happen to a celluloid PEN.  The PVC sac in a Duofold Sr. could soften the barrel from the inside out, and once soft it can not be reversed.  It would take a long time, and we might not notice, but it would happen.  The difference with a 51, or a PVC sac in say a Sheaffer snorkel, is that the sac never comes in contact with the barrel because of the metal sac guard.

 

I use the true Silicone sacs from David for my Sheaffer Balances that I want to preserve color, I've also used them on some Snorkels and Touchdowns, and really haven't noticed any significant difference in suction compared to latex sacs. Recently transition to using the Woodbin PVC sacs in Snorkels/Thin Model Touchdown/PFMs (*note that the 17 1/2 pvc does not have a good seal on the nipple of the fat touchdown as I recently found out). I still use latex sacs on Lever fillers that don't need the insurance of Silicone Sac for preservation.


Edited by zchen, 23 November 2015 - 05:11.


#11 GAtkins

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 15:29

 

 

I keep a notebook. Anytime Ron, David, Todd, or one or two others share their wisdom about chemicals, threads, measurements, or something else easy to write down, I write it down...

 

Brian

 

 

Brian,

 

You might suspect (rightly so) from our many previous conversations, that I do exactly the same thing.  The notebook is always within reach.  :))

 

Glenn



#12 ac12

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 23:34

Dang, I need to keep a notebook also. So much good stuff, that I keep forgetting.

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#13 Ron Z

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 00:26

I keep a notebook with notes on procedures for specific repairs, measurements, diagrams and sketches - anything that I don't want to have to research or reinvent next time I see a similar pen.  I refer to it often, and it goes back several years.  The next one, including copies from this one,  will be in alphabetical order by manufacturer. 

 

On silicone sacs:

 

I have used them, but also have had to replace them with something else in a number of pens because they leaked.  Storing pens nib up is not always practical - not what I  usually do.  Mine go in a drawer or on the table next to my chair.

 

 For your own repairs, they may be fine if you don't mind doing things again if there is a problem. I can't use them for clients pens though because I can't afford to have a bunch of warranty repairs because the pens ooze. 


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