Why Pen Manufacturers Don't Make Flex Pens Nowadays?

[jordib]

I think newbies think oh flex I have to see how far it will flex! What is the purpose of flex, actually it is a way to get more line variation, more interest in your script, not a contest to see how wide you can make the nib go. You don't need a wet noodle. So get a vintage pen that is semi flex, one that will give you some flex to work with and enjoy it. I'm writing letters with flex nibs all the time with no problem. Sure a pen holder and nib will teach you to use a lighter hand but it can also be very frustrating. You will find the tine catching in the paper and speckles of ink flying across the paper. If anything you may decide not to ever use a flex nib again.

 

My advice is to get an inexpensive vintage pen with flex, realize that you can't use too much pressure and gradually take advantage of the flex that pen has to offer. You will get the hang of it, just be patient. One of the masters of flex nib writing here on FPN told me that a good way to practice is to use a pencil and practice putting pressure on the downstroke and lightening the pressure on the up and side strokes. Surprisingly the result looks very much like what you would get with a flex nib and it helps you learn control.

 

Good luck

Thank you. Very sound advice.

[ThyPenMaker]

While slooking through the internet concerning flexible nibs I ran across a YouTube video by sbrebrown

where he was talking about super flexible nibs. I believe he called them Brause 76 Rose nibs (but I can't be sure), about being flexible. Also some one mentioned in the notes that a one man company called Desiderata Pen Company was making fountain pens (apparently demand exceeds supply) using the Japanese comic nib, the zebra G which is supposed to be flexible.

I am wanting to make the same pens which is why I was researching this topic.

Any knowledge about any of this?

 

[Goudy]

The Brause Rose is super flexible but it's an untipped steel nib, so if you put it in an FP feed, it'll corrode pretty fast unless you take special precautions such as flushing and drying the pen after each use.

 

The Desideratas have a big fan base and are much discussed here. A search for that keyword will give you plenty of material for your research.

[Meltemi]

Indeed, however none of the two Desiderata models are available at the moment. There are some manufacturers that make flexible nib pens but they are either Japanese for Kanji calligraphy (As told by Mauricio). Wahl Eversharp is coming out with a full-flex nib, and I mighy be sending an email requesting a Demonstrator

[WaskiSquirrel]

I had good luck putting Speedball nibs into Noodler's pens. Of course, as others mentioned, these dip nibs corrode quite quickly.

[amk]

Goudy, thanks for the info on stainless (rigid) vs normal (corrodes) steel. Perhaps we ought to get FPs designed for the regular nibs and just get used to changing the beggars regularly... oh, that's what Desiderata's been doing :-)

[jordib]

And using a Zebra G nib in a regular FP is possible? Those nibs also corrode quickly?

[Goudy]

And using a Zebra G nib in a regular FP is possible? Those nibs also corrode quickly?

 

The Desiderata fountain pens come with that nib as standard, along with instructions on how to swap it out. I think I got a few months use out of mine before I needed to replace it. It wasn't that the whole nib went rusty. It just seemed to become a little snaggy on the paper, maybe due to some corrosion between the tines at the tip. The Titanium version will last longer.

 

I should add that not all fountain pen feeds will work with that nib, even if the nib fits. To use a flex nib in a fountain pen, the feed has to be capable of handling the rapid changes in flow needed to prevent railroading.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Goudy

[KBeezie]

And using a Zebra G nib in a regular FP is possible? Those nibs also corrode quickly?

Write sample I did with a Desiderata fitted with a Zebra-G that I had briefly (but decided to return it after all remedies [including section swap] to stop the feed from bleeding/dripping ink out the front wasn't working, and silicone grease around under side of the feed seemed to be the only working method)

 

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/desiderata_flex/sunset.jpg

 

They do corrode since they're not stainless steel, in fact the tip gets scratchy by the time it needs to be replaced (3 to 6 months depending on cleanliness), also my note on the same about being scratchy is due mainly to being new to a high performance flex and it takes a bit of practice to use them correctly. Few months after that I practice a little with the extra zebra-g nibs I had and eventually got some vintage semi-flex so those require even less pressure.

[jordib]

First I will try these Zebra G (or other similar nibs) with a nib holder. Then perhaps the next step is adapting the Zebra G to any cheap regular pen (I've seen a couple of videos using a Twsbi -with a little bit of dremmel work- or a more easy Jinhao). Later,eventually a Noodler's or even a FPR and finally a vintage flex.

[KBeezie]

First I will try these Zebra G (or other similar nibs) with a nib holder. Then perhaps the next step is adapting the Zebra G to any cheap regular pen (I've seen a couple of videos using a Twsbi -with a little bit of dremmel work- or a more easy Jinhao). Later,eventually a Noodler's or even a FPR and finally a vintage flex.

Why go down significantly in performance from the dip nib? (though that being said, you'll find it easier to put a Zebra-G into a Noodler's Ahab, especially since it has an ebonite feed that can be carved at the shoulders to make the nib fit, and the channel that can be carved wider to provide more ample flow, and they sell spare feeds)

[El Gordo]

Just wondering, did anyone already consider a high-tech coating (sort of atomic layer deposition of zirconia, titanium nitride, or whatever) to tackle the corrosion problem? Too expensive (or rather too small a market to do the research and have a sufficiently large batch)? To thin and abraded anyhow during the writing life time? Too much effect on surface energy (flow)? Too brittle to withstand the even modest flex?

[KBeezie]

Just wondering, did anyone already consider a high-tech coating (sort of atomic layer deposition of zirconia, titanium nitride, or whatever) to tackle the corrosion problem? Too expensive (or rather too small a market to do the research and have a sufficiently large batch)? To thin and abraded anyhow during the writing life time? Too much effect on surface energy (flow)? Too brittle to withstand the even modest flex?

Well there have been a few Titanium nibs, and some advertising for 'flex' sort of, such as Stipula T-Flex, and also there's "ceramic-coated" gold plated steel 'semi-flex' nib that the modern Wahl-Eversharp makes, but it's still no less resistance (pressure) than say a Noodler's Flex nib (though much smoother and consistent).

 

But far as corrosion resistance in general, a lot of those have been tried, it's just trying to get them flexing too that's the chore. (And there is a Zebra-G Titanium dip nib).

[penwash]

If this hobby continues to grow, they will come back.

 

This.

If we want flex nibs to be produced once more, we need to introduce more people to the joy of fountain pen collecting.

People like myself is the prime example. In August this year, if you were to tell me that I'd be eyeball deep into fountain pens, I'd be looking at you cross-eyed.

 

If I can grow into this hobby in 3 months, how many more people like me out there?

 

So the mission is simple, if you want flex to come back, introduce fountain pens to your buddies/coworkers/friends.

We can't rely on vintage pens forever.

Edited November 27, 2015 by penwash

[jar]

We need to remember that flexible nib fountain pens have never been the norm and always just another niche market. In fact in business the stiff or manifold nib was far more popular and even required to use with multi-part forms.

 

Introducing folk to fountain pens is of course great fun, but that does not really correspond more to flexible nibs. Just as over the last century or more fountain pens with relatively stiff nibs have been the norm, there is little reason to expect flexible nib fountain pens to ever become more than a niche market.

[mhphoto]

We need to remember that flexible nib fountain pens have never been the norm and always just another niche market. In fact in business the stiff or manifold nib was far more popular and even required to use with multi-part forms.

I have to disagree with that, but just for the late 1800s until, what, 1920-ish? Certainly after the typewriter was invented manifold nibs became more prevalent. But I don't own a pre-1920 Waterman or Parker that doesn't offer at least some amount of flexibility. I'm not calling you out or anything. But the hard rubber era pens I have (probably numbering around 150 or so) are overwhelmingly flexible. Even into the celluloid era, most of mine are at least somewhat flexible.

 

That said, I think nib production back then was operating more on habit than purpose.

[jar]

I have to disagree with that, but just for the late 1800s until, what, 1920-ish? Certainly after the typewriter was invented manifold nibs became more prevalent. But I don't own a pre-1920 Waterman or Parker that doesn't offer at least some amount of flexibility. I'm not calling you out or anything. But the hard rubber era pens I have (probably numbering around 150 or so) are overwhelmingly flexible. Even into the celluloid era, most of mine are at least somewhat flexible.

 

That said, I think nib production back then was operating more on habit than purpose.

 

I would not argue if we look only at the pre WWI era but even by the late teens the need to write through multiple copies was becoming a business requirement.

[wspohn]

Flex nibs are like wine.

 

Many, perhaps most people espouse a preference for a 'dry' wine. Give them one and they don't like it, they really prefer the slightly off dry softer style with significant residual sugar.

 

Same with flex nibs. A lot of FP aficionados seem to talk a good game, but most wouldn't know what to do with a truly flexible vintage nib, and are happy with anything that is less stiff than the usual modern nib.

[Davis19942003]

Noodler's and FPR and similar are not flex nibs even though they're called flex, they're basically springy/firm nibs.

 

The reason they're not flex to me is because they require EXTREME PRESSURE in order to get the line variations shown in samples. An actual flex nib would show the same line variation but at just a light touch in comparison.

 

The esterbrook 2048 and similar are similar to the amount of pressure required to flex a Noodler's/FPR nib, they're pretty firm.

 

The cheapest route to experiment with flex writing without the need to use such extreme pressure would be to get a dip nib holder (speedball, tachikawa, etc usually bout $2) and get a flexable dip nib (Zebra-G is still considered firm, but easier to do than noodlers/fpr, Gillott 303 or 404 are better options, and there are some others yet that require even less pressure).

 

Practicing with a dip nib that needs very little pressure will help you develop a light hand so that you're mashing the (bleep) out of a nib and thus breaking it, something that's important before going to a vintage nib that you cannot easily replace.

 

If you just want line variation, stubs and cursive italics have much less of a learning curve and less likely to be destroyed by a heavy hand.

I have been writing so heavily even after I had started using fountain pens. I trained my light hand by using Leonardt Principal EF nib when I practice calligraphy. It's so soft that it splashes ink if you write the upstroke a bit heavily. So now I write very softly even when I write with a fountain pen.

 

I'm confused by the assertion that flex nibs are more complex and costly to make and have to be made of 14k gold. Hang on: the cheapest way into flex today is to buy a *steel* dip pen nib. And those are cheap!

 

So what is it that stops FP manufacturers from making equivalent flex nibs, or that stops the dip nib manufacturers from getting into the FP nib market?

I guess the steel composition in FP nibs are different from that of in the dip nibs. The dip nibs are much less resistant to fountain pen ink( water based) than the fountain pen nibs.

[KBeezie]

I guess the steel composition in FP nibs are different from that of in the dip nibs. The dip nibs are much less resistant to fountain pen ink( water based) than the fountain pen nibs.

The most obvious difference is that fountain pen nibs tend to be Stainless Steel, and steel dip nibs are not stainless (usually), meant to be replaced after some time as the corrosion sets in.