Why Pen Manufacturers Don't Make Flex Pens Nowadays?

[Davis19942003]

I love vintage pens and flex pens, and I often see flexy vintage pens like the Mabie Todd Swan. This makes me wonder why pen makers don't make flex pens(especially super flexy ones) in the modern days.

When it comes to moderns flex pen, I can only think of Noodler's Nib Creaper, Konrad, Ahab and Neponset( Which I want to buy so badly) and the mighty Namiki Falcon. I know Surwex and FountainPenRevolution makes flex pens as well but they are not main stream as Faber Castell, Lamy or Parker.

Is that related to the increasing cost? Thanks in advance!

[jar]

No demand from the buying public. Not enough interest in such a product to make a company even consider the idea. A rational fear that ignorant consumers will create too many returns by trying to over flex the nibs.

[ac12]

High cost to manufacture coupled with insufficient demand = very high unit cost. Flex writers are a very very small portion of the entire fountain pen community.

High cost of dealing with "warranty returns" caused by users overflexing the nib.

 

See these posts:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/299761-how-thick-is-your-vintage-flex-nib/?do=findComment&comment=3496942

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/299761-how-thick-is-your-vintage-flex-nib/?do=findComment&comment=3497126

 

As stated in the last post:

I understand that there are a couple/few current manufacturers who are or are going to make flexible nibs of some sort.

- The new Wahl/Eversharp Decoband has a flex nib, though I have no idea how it writes. http://wahleversharp...ction.php?id=43 Though the Decoband at $850 is not an inexpensive pen, and that 14k flex nib is likely to be rather significant part of the cost of the pen.

- There is a guy out of Florida who I recall saying that he was going to come out with a flex nib. I don't know where he is with his project.

Edited November 12, 2015 by ac12

[Moshe ben David]

Carrying on with jar's comments. Let's face it; there aren't that many people who really get into script writing who would take advantage of a flex nib. Fountain pen use itself is a pretty niche market let alone with flex nibs...

[linearM]

Stipula has the T flex nib. It doesn't compare to the vintage nibs I have in terms of ease of flex.

 

A good share of my pens are 'Vintage" and they are wonderful pens both aesthetically and functionally. I see no advantage in buying a contemporarily produced pen if what you are looking for is flex. I have pens from the 20's and 30's that look nearly new, which when refurbished with a new sac or filling system, have many more years of reliable service in them.

[KBeezie]

I'm not sure how true this is, but it is my understanding that the vintage flex and semi-flex that moved with relative ease were hand-made rather than machined out at mass speeds, which may have something to do with being able to effectively get something that flexed well.

 

Also I think that if there was a company that mass produced flex nibs that were very easy to flex, many of the novices buying them up would easily damage them and blame it on the product/brand as being unreliable. I'm also one of those people who don't consider something like Noodler's Flex to be a flex nib at all, but rather barely springy with a high tolerance to extreme pressure needed to get line variations (so really depends on your definition of flex).

 

As it is, if I want semi-flex/flex, I go vintage anyways, better made and easier to use than the modern alternative, and often cheaper than modern for what you get.

Edited November 12, 2015 by KBeezie

[amk]

Actually I'm getting the impression that more manufacturers are trying to make flex or at least 'soft' and semiflex nibs; recently Italian manufacturers have been giving it a try, plus Noodlers and FPR and Eversharp as already noted, plus IIRC Pilot. Maybe not full flex like a vintage Waterman flexy nib, but at least offering something different from the regular nail. It seems to me we've got a lot more choice than we had five or six years ago.

 

Why Waterman, Parker, Sheaffer aren't in on this act? Simple. They have a broader customer base with a higher percentage of ballpoint users and probably more gift/corporate buying.

 

But I think there is a reasonable market there, if you're a smaller manufacturer, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more options arriving on the scene.

[inkeverywhere]

Actually I'm getting the impression that more manufacturers are trying to make flex or at least 'soft' and semiflex nibs; recently Italian manufacturers have been giving it a try, plus Noodlers and FPR and Eversharp as already noted, plus IIRC Pilot. Maybe not full flex like a vintage Waterman flexy nib, but at least offering something different from the regular nail. It seems to me we've got a lot more choice than we had five or six years ago.

 

Why Waterman, Parker, Sheaffer aren't in on this act? Simple. They have a broader customer base with a higher percentage of ballpoint users and probably more gift/corporate buying.

 

But I think there is a reasonable market there, if you're a smaller manufacturer, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more options arriving on the scene.

I own a Pilot with a soft fine nib fitted. Yes you get a little line varition but flex like vintage pens would be out of the question with this nib. Great nib but certainly nowhere being called a flex or even semiflex nib.

 

 

 

Greg

Edited November 12, 2015 by inkeverywhere

[J85909266]

If this hobby continues to grow, they will come back.

[Davis19942003]

Thanks for all the informative replies, I hope we can make up a larger bargaining power that the pen maker will produce flex (or at least softer nibs) again one day.


May I ask what's the difference between the vintage flexy gold nibs and the modern ones? I have tried a Pilot Falcon (Well, an Elabo) and a 743 FA nib, they are not as flexy as the vintage flex nibs that I see on youtube, Facebook or instagram.

But the Pilot 74 SF nib is softer than I thought and smoother than Falcon and 743 FA IMHO.

[jar]

May I ask what's the difference between the vintage flexy gold nibs and the modern ones? I have tried a Pilot Falcon (Well, an Elabo) and a 743 FA nib, they are not as flexy as the vintage flex nibs that I see on youtube, Facebook or instagram.

 

 

Many of the videos particularly on Facebook, YouTube and Instagram are simply nibs being abused

[KBeezie]

Many of the videos particularly on Facebook, YouTube and Instagram are simply nibs being abused

I agree with this, especially with the Pilot Falcon which I've owned in both SF and SEF, and I also have a couple vintage semi-flex. The Falcons are springy (ie: no more than 2x the starting with with some degree of press, any more than that I find to be abusive/excessive), but are not semi-flex and are on the firm side with a light to normal hand.

 

It's not the best example as I've sold my Falcon a while back, but in testing feathering on Mead 5-star (with feather resistant inks) but essentially I compared two vintage pens to my Falcon's SEF, in an attempt to show light/norm/heavier (which varies by person), as well as an attempt near the bottom to show equivalent pressure side by side.

 

http://i.imgur.com/YgNAnSB.jpg

 

But there's also a feeling difference, for example the FA nib (not to be confused with Falcon) has less resistance than the Falcon nib so it's "closer" to a vintage semi-flex in terms of how little pressure is required to get it to move. However it does not spring back as quickly while having the ease-of-flex as the vintage nibs, so the FA nib by comparison is more 'mushy'.

 

I've only had/have two pens that require even less touch/pressure to spread the tines:

 

http://i.imgur.com/PZ1aDkf.jpg

 

Which does this at very light to normal : http://i.imgur.com/wsm2lfB.jpg

 

and my Doric which I still have with a #3 Adjustable:

 

http://i.imgur.com/3UdeTg7.jpg

 

Which does this at the same level of ease as the Skyline Demi: http://i.imgur.com/3F1tSQL.jpg

and

(in Montblanc Irish Green) : http://i.imgur.com/NcnJ6SK.jpg

 

The very last link also shows the Falcon SEF, Wahl #2 Semi-Flex, A Modern Wahl/Eversharp Semi-Flex, and a Modified Noodler's Flex.

 

Because of the very few vintage nibs that were soft, semi-flex or flex, I've developed a light hand, and I can't even bring myself to push those modern nibs to the point shown in the youtube videos as that degree of pressure feels extreme and unnatural to write with.

Edited November 13, 2015 by KBeezie

[Bo Bo Olson]

Cost of the repair of nibs....mostly in the States, Parker and Sheaffer started going nail in the '30's.

 

Waterman and Eversharp made nibs with some flex..40's Eversharp made semi-flex. In the early '50s stateside Sheaffer made a few semi-flex. I had set my mind to get one an Admiral or something with the wide rolled gold band....but lucked out unexpectedly below.*

 

English Parker and Sheaffer made semi-flex because Swan made semi-flex to 'flexi' nibs. I have an *Australian Snorkel in factory stubbed BB maxi-semi-flex.

One must remember that was still the time of One Man, One Pen...and one got a new one every 7-10 years when yours was out of fashion....so with such time gaps....one could find there were no more nibs made with the flex you wanted....and you had no choice.

 

There was no Used fountain pen market until Ebay...well mostly. You couldn't even tell the company, I'll buy an old one instead.

 

With the constant advertising on TV and the better magazines everyone knew what the high status fountain pens were.....and yep, even then Status was King, even before Boss on shirts and shoes.

So the buyer ended up with a fashionable nail.

[mhphoto]

Many of the videos particularly on Facebook, YouTube and Instagram are simply nibs being abused

 

+1000

 

And in the interest of saving time and energy with vague finger pointing, let's just name drop and get it over with. Brian Sizemore.

 

I admire that he can make so much money on his pens on eBay, but you can almost hear the poor nibs screaming for mercy in his videos.

Edited November 14, 2015 by mhphoto

[KBeezie]

+1000

 

And in the interest of saving time and energy with vague finger pointing, let's just name drop and get it over with. Brian Sizemore.

 

I admire that he can make so much money on his pens on eBay, but you can almost hear the poor nibs screaming for mercy in his videos.

... I just visualized a nib screaming when you said that (breather hole as an eye, tines as the mouth, like being tortured at a dentist).

[Freddy]

Why Pen Manufacturers Don't Make Flex Pens Nowadays?

 

No demand....whatsoever. Those other pens are ersatz flex.

In general the ham-fisted. Videos..they don't know

shxt from shinola. Of course this is my personal opinion

and yours may well be different from mine..........

 

Fred

 

O Sleepless as the river under thee,

Vaulting the sea, the prairies' dreaming sod,

Unto us lowliest sometime sweep, descend

And of the curveship lend a myth to 'G'od.

~ H. Crane

 

Redactin' cause of me atrocious spellin' Cap 'G'

Edited November 14, 2015 by Freddy

[Mauricio]

May I ask what's the difference between the vintage flexy gold nibs and the modern ones? I have tried a Pilot Falcon (Well, an Elabo) and a 743 FA nib, they are not as flexy as the vintage flex nibs that I see on youtube, Facebook or instagram.

 

The two following articles should help you understand the differences between a true vintage flexible nib and a so-called "modern flexible nib" ...

 

http://www.vintagepen.net/performance-flex.html

 

http://www.vintagepen.net/grading-flex-nibs.html

​

[pajaro]

Flexible nibs from an older era require too much effort for modern users, and there are italics. I think the demand for flex comes from a vocal minority. If you look at what the bigger name manufacturers are making, it's slanted toward expensive pens with standard nibs. How much money is in flexy? There is probably more trouble possible from users ruining nibs than the money warrants. I have no dog in this hunt, because I'm older and unwilling to invest the effort to learn how to use flexible writing. For the younger readers who want flexy nibs in new pens, you need to develop a strategy to make the penmakers think there is a lucrative market in it.

[sidthecat]

I'd compare the interest in flex nibs to the recent popularity of vinyl records. They're delicate, easily damaged and require specialized, expensive equipment to play them. That said, it's the only sector of the music business that's expanding. I'd be tempted to call it snobbishness, but I'd also say one should never bet against it.

One or two well-regarded musicians started talking about how much BETTER vinyl records were than CDs and a couple years later there's a market for records.

 

If Angelina Jolie Pitt started writing her scripts with a Waterman 52 it would become a similar Thing. So maybe what we have to do is start giving flex-nib pens to celebrities and see what happens.

[ac12]

 

I'd compare the interest in flex nibs to the recent popularity of vinyl records. They're delicate, easily damaged and require specialized, expensive equipment to play them. That said, it's the only sector of the music business that's expanding. I'd be tempted to call it snobbishness, but I'd also say one should never bet against it.

One or two well-regarded musicians started talking about how much BETTER vinyl records were than CDs and a couple years later there's a market for records.

 

If Angelina Jolie Pitt started writing her scripts with a Waterman 52 it would become a similar Thing. So maybe what we have to do is start giving flex-nib pens to celebrities and see what happens.

 

 

As long as the celebs don't spring the nib thenselves ....