Best Blue-Black For A Fussy Vintage Pen?

[filmcraft]

I am partial to blue-black inks, and feel like I have looked at so many writing samples now that I can no longer see straight!

 

So - thoughts on which Blue-Black is best for a very fussy 1932 Waterman?

 

I had been using Noodler's 54th Massachusetts, which is exactly the right colour, but not the right ink for my pen (despite daily use and regularly flushing with water etc.). I've switched to Parker Quink Blue-Black, which my pen really likes, but it looks a bit greenish to my eye.

 

I've been looking mainly at "old reliable" brands, because I am wary of my Waterman getting clogged again. Pilot Blue-Black looks too blue for me. Pelikan Blue-Black looks like a great colour, but is it all right for a temperamental pen? How about Diamine Twilight? Shaeffer Skrip? Sailor?

 

Any suggestions/tips/etc. appreciated!

[Scribblesoften]

I like Iroshizuku Shin Kai. It dries to a nice greyish blue color that I like. I tried a sample of the Noodler's 54th and it seemed to shade towards teal. That may just have been my sample. Check out some of the reviews for Shin Kai. I hope you can find a color you like.

[filmcraft]

Thanks! Do you have a fussy pen as well? I am quite paranoid now after my last experience...

[Joane]

I reserve J. Herbin Bleu Nuit for pens that are fussy or made of vulnerable materials. My favourite blue-black is MB Midnight Blue but if I am not sure of the composition or tolerance of a vintage pen the mild, vegetal and relatively neutral Herbin feels safer.

[filmcraft]

Thanks Joane! I will check Laywine's for the J. Herbin next time I'm in.

[zaddick]

Waterman ink is safe and widely recommend as an ink for vintage pens.

[Sandy1]

 

Hi,

 

For the most part I've found that current inks will run well with ye olde pens if they are properly restored/adjusted.

 

Yet my personal preference, not a rule, is to match inks of a sort that were contemporary with the pen, taking into account that ink formulations are likely to have changed over the years, and that the feed material has changed from ebonite to plastic.

 

Perhaps the most iconic Blue-Black inks are the iron-gall (I-G) inks, followed by the inks which have modest dye-load.

 

Some inks to consider are the I-G Ecclesiastical Stationery Supplies Registrars Ink (ESSRI), R&K Salix, and the KWSI inks; and we have the simple aniline dye inks, such as those from Diamine, J Herbin Bleu Nuit, Pelikan 4001 BlBk, Pilot shin-kai, Sheaffer Skrip BlBk, et al.

 

I've also had satisfying results after diluting the higher dye-load inks, such as Noodler's FPH Manhattan Blue, Private Reserve Midnight Blues, and even diluting Stipula Calamo Nero, which is marketed as Black ink.

 

Though some Members have established a working relationship with N54M and other cellulose-reactive inks, due to clean-up/maintenance concerns (strong chemistry), I shy away from pairing such inks with ye olde pens - I have modern pens that are a much better match to those inks.

 

Just how fussy a pen can be is pretty vague: nib/tine tuning, nib+feed set-up, etc. For the most part I prefer to tune the ink to the pen, rather than try to tune the pen to the ink: dilution will slow the flow, and addition of a minute amount of benign surfactant can improve flow.But if your pen won't write well with 'standard' inks, such as Waterman Serenity, Sheaffer Skrip Blue, etc., then it is time to consider adjusting the pen.

 

Bye,

S1

[Moshe ben David]

I've used Parker Quink Permanent Blue-Black in a Parker 51 but I supposed that would hardly be an example of fussy pen!

 

I'd also go with the current version of a Waterman Blue-Black (I can't keep the names straight, sorry); maybe also a Diamine or a Pelikan. However I've never used a blue-black ink from either Diamine or Pelikan, just have had overall good experiences with their products.

 

I also run Pilot Blue-Black in a few pens; I particularly like Pilot inks for addressing envelopes because the inks are relatively resistant to water.

 

Wish I could be of more direct help.

[ac12]

It depends on WHY your pen is fussy. You need to provide specifics, cuz from what you wrote, I have no idea what you mean by "fussy."

 

- Waterman is one of the standard inks. If you flush your pen 2-4 times a year, you should not have a problem. Heck I usually don't flush until I change ink color or rotate the pen out of use.

- Sheaffer Skrip blue-black is a nice BB ink. The color depends on how wet the pen writes; it goes from a greyish blue-black to a very dark almost black color.

- Pelikan ink is similar, if you don't have enough ink flow, it will look light/faded. Pelikan is a dry ink, so if your pen does not flow ink well, this ink will not work for you, or will look faded.

 

Note that the ink color/shade depends to a degree on how wet your pen writes with that ink. Example, a particular ink may look great in my wet writing pen, and faded and washed out in your dry writing pen.

Edited November 12, 2015 by ac12

[The Good Captain]

I also would suggest Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black for a starter. Pens of the age you describe were far more used to the iron gall inks that were then around, which were much less 'pleasant' than the ones we get today. so, you shouldn't have any real issues with ESSRI either. Maybe R&K Salix could be an option as it's cheap and easily maintained.

Aurora Blue:Black at a ratio of about 3:1 in that order, gives a nice shade and is pretty water-resistant. Well-behaved too.

[filmcraft]

It depends on WHY your pen is fussy. You need to provide specifics, cuz from what you wrote, I have no idea what you mean by "fussy."

 

I'll try to be more descriptive - with the Noodler's, it would get blobby, i.e. I'd be writing along fine, and all of a sudden a big blob of ink would gloop out onto the page. It would be slow to start. When I filled it, the ink would cling to the outside of the nib. And I had to fill it more often, a fill only seemed to last a couple of days, whereas with roughly the same amount of writing, a fill with Quink has lasted two weeks. When I would flush it with clean water, sometimes "flakes" of ink would come out (like the scale you get with hard water in a kettle, if that makes any sense). After a while, it wouldn't fill at all, not even with clear water. I would waggle the lever and there was no pressure - I thought it was broken, but I sent it to my restorer and he said it just needed a good cleaning.

 

I want to baby my pen, since it's an antique and I have the matching pencil as well. Not a set I can afford to replace easily.

 

The Quink is fine to write with and my pen seems to like it, so I'm hoping to find an ink with a similar temperament, but without the greenish tone that the Quink has compared with Noodler's 54th Massachusetts.

[filmcraft]

Pens of the age you describe were far more used to the iron gall inks that were then around, which were much less 'pleasant' than the ones we get today. so, you shouldn't have any real issues with ESSRI either.

 

I'm curious about the ESSRI, but a little afraid of iron gall and what it might do. Will probably start with the Pelikan, if only because it should be available locally. Thanks!

[Sandy1]

 

I'm curious about the ESSRI, but a little afraid of iron gall and what it might do. Will probably start with the Pelikan, if only because it should be available locally. Thanks!

 

Hi,

 

As you've been using N54M, which I found to be one of the most persistent FP inks, I suspect the inky residue from N54M has degraded the performance / reliability of your pen. I strongly suggesting giving the pen a thorough cleansing using a technical pen cleaner, such as Koh-i-Noor Rapido-Eze, and perhaps treatment with an ultrasonic bath before trying another ink.

(Technical pen cleaners should be available from Vendors selling draughting supplies or art supplies.)

 

If you remain curious about ESSRI, kindly take a look at the entries in the Ink Review Forum, and links to my results from diluting ESSRI and blending dilute ESSRI are below.

 

Bye,

S1

 

__ __

See also:

> N54M Review, which almost became a User Guide : https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/255965-noodlers-54-massachusetts/?p=2825711

> Limit to Soaking? : https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/229245-limit-to-soaking/?p=2453755

> ESSRI - Dilution: 33, 50, 66 80, 90 & 100% : https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/211406-ecclesiastical-stationery-supplies-registrars-ink-dulution/

> ESSRI - Mixes: Recipes 1 thru 8 https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/223337-essri-mixes/

Edited November 12, 2015 by Sandy1

[AlanO]

I love blue-black inks, and my old favourite from years ago was Parker Super Quink (with Solv-X). But compared to that, the current version is a travesty - it's actually quite a nice teal colour, but it is *not* blue-black and to market it as such seems shameful to me.

 

I'm using Pelikan 4001 blue-black in a few pens now, and it looks very much the way I remember the old Quink. So far it seems very well behaved - it flows nicely without flooding, doesn't bleed, and it seems resistant to drying and clogging. It works nicely with a few vintage pens I've tried it in, but I can't say anything about long-term performance as I haven't been using it for long.

 

My top blue-black at the moment (and it's not something I'd recommend for everyday use in delicate vintage pens, so my apologies for using this thread to mention it) is Hero 232 blue-black from China. It's an iron gall ink, which goes down very dark blue and blackens quickly on exposure to air resulting in a glorious heavily-saturated old-fashioned colour, and it's amazingly cheap even including shipping from China.

 

I have only used it in cheap (but excellent) Chinese Jinhao pens so far, but I thought it worth a mention for anyone who loves old style blue-black inks.

 

Alan

Edited November 12, 2015 by AlanO

[Joane]

I love blue-black inks, and my old favourite from years ago was Parker Super Quink (with Solv-X). But compared to that, the current version is a travesty - it's actually quite a nice teal colour, but it is *not* blue-black and to market it as such seems shameful to me.

 

Agreed. For many years Quink b/b was my favourite too. It evoked in my memory the colour of the Atlantic Ocean at Asbury Park, NJ, and was an ink that worked in every pen. I miss it.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Joane

[filmcraft]

 

Hi,

 

As you've been using N54M, which I found to be one of the most persistent FP inks, I suspect the inky residue from N54M has degraded the performance / reliability of your pen. I strongly suggesting giving the pen a thorough cleansing using a technical pen cleaner, such as Koh-i-Noor Rapido-Eze, and perhaps treatment with an ultrasonic bath before trying another ink.

(Technical pen cleaners should be available from Vendors selling draughting supplies or art supplies.)

 

If you remain curious about ESSRI, kindly take a look at the entries in the Ink Review Forum, and links to my results from diluting ESSRI and blending dilute ESSRI are below.

 

I started reading your review thread, and had to stop when I realised it is 20+ pages long! Will have to save that for the weekend when I have more reading time.

 

I am almost afraid to read about the N54M - I hate to think it might have led to permanent damage. My restorer gave my pen a good cleansing, but I don't know what he used - I guess I should ask.

[arcadeflow]

I would advise against Twilight in vintage pens, it is a hard to clean ink that leaves pink dye behind.

[Sandy1]

 

I started reading your review thread, and had to stop when I realised it is 20+ pages long! Will have to save that for the weekend when I have more reading time.

 

I am almost afraid to read about the N54M - I hate to think it might have led to permanent damage. My restorer gave my pen a good cleansing, but I don't know what he used - I guess I should ask.

 

Hi,

 

Ah, my IR of ESSRI was greatly enriched by the ongoing contributions of many Members, giving considerable scope and depth over time. I hope it also makes a person aware of just what could be in store once the IG genie is out of the bottle.

 

As for N54M, I very much doubt that it has damaged your pen, rather I would not be surprised if you have a clean-up challenge.

> I suggest that the pen be kept full of water and not allowed to dry-out until it can be thoroughly cleansed.

> Otherwise you could try using a 'cleaning ink' which might improve things enough to keep the pen in service. Though for roughly the same cost, I'd opt for a jar of Rapido-Eze. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/251595-best-ink-to-use-in-between-high-maintenance-inks-something-lubricating/?p=2762032

 

Bye,

S1

Edited November 15, 2015 by Sandy1

[888007888]

I have tried what was seemingly a million blue-black inks. What I have found to be the best performer all around is the MB Midnight Blue (newer formula non iron gall). It shades well enough in my broads and stubs, the color is rich, it flows nicely... But most importantly... It cleans well out of all my pens. No mess. No staining. No fuss. I also like the chromatics from Caran d'Ache but I do not find that it behaves as well in my pens.

Edited November 26, 2015 by 888007888

[inkstainedruth]

Waterman Mysterious Blue is well behaved but not particularly water resistant (i.e., at all). Also, if you don't like the greenish lean to Quink Blue-Black you might not like the color (I had someone convinced a while back that I was using GREEN ink -- even though I kept insisting I knew what ink was in that pen).

Sheaffer Blue-black is nice. Diamine Denim is very nice (but doesn't shade at all); I also like Diamine Eclipse (but that one is almost black in color, so YMMV). Shin-kai was okay, but I thought it was too expensive for what it is. I have a bottle of Edelstein Tanzanite, but haven't made up my mind about it yet; haven't really used it much.

I'll admit that I'm really partial to IG blue-blacks -- but unlike a lot of people I was not enamored of Diamine Registrars because while it has huge amount of shading, it oxidizes to a washy blue-grey (haven't had a chance to try ESSRI). My current favorites in the IG category are Akkerman #10, KWZI IG Blue-Black, and KWZI IG Blue #3; I also like FPN member Pharmacist's Urkundentinte (but he hasn't been brewing recently ). I also like R&K Salix, but it stays more blue and doesn't oxidize as much, so you'd have to decide if that was a color you liked.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth