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Flex Nibs Leave Very Wet Lines When Spread


Precise

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Hello,

 

I've been experimenting, modifying cheap Chinese nibs for lots of flex. I have succeeded in achieving plenty of flex, but when the nibs write a fat line it's so wet that it takes many minutes to dry.

 

I'm using Pelikan 4001 Blue, which is my dryest ink. Fat lines are 1 to 1.5mm wide.

 

Is this unavoidable? Or do you have nibs that can write a fat line which dries in less than a minute?

 

Regards,

 

Alan

Edited by Precise
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Don't see how it would be avoidable. You'd need large tipping material or a wider italic nib to make it dry unflexed.

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For a nib to flex reliably it needs a generous ink flow to prevent railroading, so that wetness I think is unavoidable.

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More info on my modified nibs:

 

These nibs are also ground very narrow. So they can write a line even finer than XF (unflexed). And, with their generous flow, they never railroad when flexed for fat (1.5mm) lines.

 

I've been developing them for my adult daughter who asked for a fountain pen that would do pointed nib calligraphy. She had been using terribly scratchy dip pens.

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Let's see some examples of your work. I'd be interested in trying that too.

Here they are:

 

post-125012-0-71666600-1447042703_thumb.jpg

 

The lateral central slot reduces the width of each tine root to about half. This is often done by notching the sides of the nib. But when that's done, the remaining tine roots are nearly parallel, so when they flex, there is not much spread. But with the lateral central slot the remaining tine roots are angled, so when flexed they spread much more.

 

post-125012-0-80838400-1447042910_thumb.jpg

 

This is primarily a deepened slit. However the hole at the end of the slit performs the same function as the lateral slot, but only slightly.

 

post-125012-0-44404600-1447043035_thumb.jpg

 

Here I deepened the slit, cut a lateral slot, and narrowed the entire nib. I also narrowed the feed. This nib is extremely flexible.

 

post-125012-0-94995300-1447043187_thumb.jpg

 

This is a bottom view, showing the narrowed feed.

 

I also ground the tips of all of these nibs, for pointed pen calligraphy.

As I mentioned in the above posts, each can write from sub-XF (unspread) to about 1.5mm (max spread), but the broad lines are terribly wet and take a long time to dry.

 

Best regards,

Alan

Edited by Precise
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An excellent post, Alan.

 

Now we will have fifty thousand people asking how to on making these nibs. From very sharp hairlines to 1.5 mm gives enough expansion to do a decent copperplate.

 

Will your daughter put up samples of her hand? Would love to see how well it all works together.

 

Enjoy,

Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?

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An excellent post, Alan.

 

Now we will have fifty thousand people asking how to on making these nibs. From very sharp hairlines to 1.5 mm gives enough expansion to do a decent copperplate.

 

Will your daughter put up samples of her hand? Would love to see how well it all works together.

 

Enjoy,

Hi Randal,

 

Here's a sample my daughter made with my first flex pen, a modified Jinhao X750.

 

 

 

When I see her on Thanksgiving day I'll have her make some writing samples with my latter pens (which are shown in this thread). By that time, I hope to add some even better pens.

 

Alan

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Great! It's so nice that you can make a rigid nib into a decent flex nib with a bit of practice. When are you going into mass production?

 

Enjoy,

 

PS: Your daughter is to be congratulated on her work with flex writing. Have you got her into IAMPETH yet? She would probably find the manuals on Copperplate and other hands to be of great interest.

Edited by Randal6393

Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?

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What paper are you using?

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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An exquisite writing sample.

 

Nice work using relatively inexpensive pens to make that possible.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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Try ESSR or R&H iron gall inks.

 

I do know the old Vintage superflex nibs had fast feeds....which would be not where you are going with such a wet line........if your feed is still too fast for you, look for a better buffered feed for your nibs.

 

 

I think you need a slightly more absorbent paper.

the old 80g Rhoda is a good paper....a 100% or perhaps even 50% cotton would give an even wider line, but soak up the ink faster....Perhaps a 25% cotton paper?

I think your problem lies in the paper.

 

And I can't help much....I'm still rather 'noobie' with only 8-10 different manufactures and don't use my superflex nibs much.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Ron had the real answer and it was short.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

What I don't understand is how 4001 blue can take by you a minute to dry...in it never takes near that long by me.

What ever inks I used in my superflex never took near that amount of time. 15-20 seconds as a max.

I just use run of the mill Pelikan, MB, R&K or shading inks...in I want that two tones when the ink dries.

 

Do avoid Noodler's Golden Brown...it takes a full written page to dry enough to write on the back.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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A wet line with a flex nib is unavoidable. It is rather, desirable. If there wasn't sufficient ink flow, the line would not be filled in when the nib is flexed, which means that you would have "railroading" i.e. two lines instead of one. Sufficient flow to fill in means you will have a wet line.

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Tonight I discovered youtube as a way to observe flex pens and wet fat lines.

 

These are wetter than my modified pens in this thread:

 

 

 

These are dryer than my modified pens:

Waterman 52,
The pen appears to be quite vertical in some of these videos. Is that the preferred technique?
Best,
Alan
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In the last video he is holding it before the big knuckle like a ball point. :angry:

 

I think that leads to many troubles, like skipping and such, but he seems to get away with it.

 

I hold behind the big knuckle so the under side tipping of the nib can contact the paper better.

Any where after the big knuckle is good. It gives more tipping in contact with the paper, making the puddle of ink the nib skates on bigger....which is good.

When held too high that 'puddle' is often too small, one must press harder to get the pen to deliver enough ink.

Holding behind the big knuckle leads to a lighter Hand.

 

I find the classic tripod, encourages pressure until trained out of it after months of effort.

I and a couple others us a tripod variant called by me, 'forefinger up', that gives an automatic light grip after a whole three minutes of practice.

 

I rant on it in a number of posts on the com.

The pen rests in your hand in this method of grasping a fountain pen, with no pressure at all.....

First....The thumb is placed flat & as a Dam at @ 09:00 that the body of the pen rests against with absolutely no pressure pushing into the pen body.

 

Second. Well, the forefinger laid a bit long and fairly flat....(((not middle knuckle pointed up in the air to drive the pen through the paper.))) on the section between 12:00-12:30-13:00 just keeps the fountain pen from doing somersaults that a light pen loves to do. ;) ...Laid...very very lightly at say 12:30 on the pen section.

You might well find the pen when posted likes a 40 degree angle, when not posted more a 45 degree angle. Don't fight it.

 

My computer nearly died,...and I'm trying desperately to finish a western I'm writing. I've not got back to tell Photobucket I have a new Email because of that. So I can't show any pictures right now.

There should be pictures of others that use this method of 'forefinger up' still to be seen in those posts.

 

Hold the fountain pen, like you are holding a featherless baby bird.....Do Not make baby bird paste. :wacko:

 

I let the weight and or length of the pen pick it's own place to be; instead of forcing a pen to be at one exact angle.

45 degrees right after the big index knuckle, 40 degrees at the start of the web of the thumb, or if it is a heavy or a longer posted pen, if it wants to rest in the pit of the thumb at 35 degrees...is fine.

 

That was a dry R&K Iron Gall (IG) ink he was using.

 

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Hi Allen,

 

I was wondering how you cut the slit and lateral slot. Did you use a dremel, or other tools.

The modified nibs look really amazing. A tremendous job.

A collector of inks, currently doing my own ink challenge.

 

IG: mcvanwijk1

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Hi Allen,

 

I was wondering how you cut the slit and lateral slot. Did you use a dremel, or other tools.

The modified nibs look really amazing. A tremendous job.

I used a small "slitting saw". These are tiny circular saws which are used in milling machines. You can buy them at amazon or ebay. But you need a milling machine to use them.

 

I've also created slots with a very skinny milling cutter, but the slitting saw is best.

 

I also made a fixture to hold the nib while cutting the slits.

Edited by Precise
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First of all, what you are using is not a nib that was originally designed and manufactured for flex purposes, but a rigid nib that has been heavily modified and severely distressed from an structural standpoint. Additionally, those huge cutouts you inflicted onto that nib may be acting like additional breather holes, which will automatically create very wet ink flow at all times and regardless of the amount of pressure applied. While you are able to achieve line variation, your modified nib does not have the structural rigidity and elasticity to quickly retrieve the tines to its original configuration after pressure is released. Furthermore, it will not offer the structural rigidity to consistently release just the proper amount of ink when no pressure is applied onto a nib. The likelihood of this nib becoming over sprung is very high if used for flex purposes.

 

Getting the optimal ink flow, including the appropriate ink levels when the tines are spread (heavy ink flow) and closed (thin lines when no pressure is applied) is a fairly advanced pen/flex nib setup even with nibs that were designed and manufactured for flex writing purposes. However, if you are using a severely distresses rigid nib, it will be virtually impossible to set that nib up to work within a more controlled and consistent ink flow behavior.

 

Besides the attributes of the flex nib in itself and the setup of the nib onto a fountain pen body, the user of that writing instrument will also need more advanced flex writing skills to be able to get optimal line definition when using flex nibs. In other words, even if you have the best writing instruments, the writing instrument by itself cannot achieve the ultimate desired result by itself. It will be up to the user to learn to control that writing instrument to display its best attributes.

Edited by Mauricio

Tu Amigo!

Mauricio Aguilar

 

www.VintagePen.net

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E-Mail: VintagePen@att.net

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