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Oh, Really, Guys? A Small Rant.

rant study newbies

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73 replies to this topic

#21 ISW_Kaputnik

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 14:56

Mysterious duplicate.  Mods feel free to delete.


Edited by ISW_Kaputnik, 06 November 2015 - 14:58.

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#22 grainweevil

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 15:02

My advice to newbies is ask the question, but please have the simple courtesy of coming back to the thread to at least acknowledge any answers. I don't mind typing up a response, but it's slightly dispiriting not to know if the OP even read it.



#23 Zanshin

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 15:32

My advice to newbies is ask the question, but please have the simple courtesy of coming back to the thread to at least acknowledge any answers. I don't mind typing up a response, but it's slightly dispiriting not to know if the OP even read it.

 

I couldn't agree more with that. 

 

As well as being a simple courtesy, an acknowledgement also lets future readers of that thread know that the answers were, or possibly weren't, helpful. So many times on other forums, especially IT related ones, I find other people have asked for help on the same problem I'm having, but they have never followed up with an acknowledgement so I have no idea whether the suggested solutions are worth trying or not.


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#24 PaperQueen

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 16:01

I suspect that sometimes it's the case that they don't know the questions to ask.  Or that they're so new that they don't know what they don't know.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

So true. We occasionally ran into this when I had a retail store---someone would call about the pen purchased a few days earlier, but not be familiar enough with the lingo (or working functions of a pen) to even know how to begin.

 

As a reliable sanity check, replace the word "pen" with "computer" to see what I mean. ;)


Why are there fourteen samples of dark plum ink on my desk? Because I still haven't found the right shade.

Is that a problem...???  : : : sigh : : : 

 

Update: Great. Finally found one I love (Lamy Dark Lilac) but I can't get more. Ah, life in my inky world....


#25 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 16:07

I suspect we need a good dose of patience too. It's easy to become frustrated with the same repetitive questions over and over, but it's power for the course on a forum such as this. I see the same frustration on other hobby forums, but it is best to keep in mind that those annoyingly repetitive questions always represent new blood that will keep the hobby alive.



Amen and so forth!

All too often, I've seen the opposite occur on niche forums: 'Oooo, our hobby/pastime/forum is dying! We need new blood!'

And they mean that literally. They dismember the newcomers and eat them for lunch, or if any newcomer survives, the oldtimers shun them.

Then they go right back to complaining how there's no one around but the core group.

#26 Chouffleur

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 16:15

The 27th question about replacing a sac offers an opportunity to the person who asked the 25th one to be helpful. Since the cumulative expertise available on this board can be quite daunting, it's nice to be able to contribute by answering a simple question or two in order to save the time and effort of more expert members for more difficult questions. It doesn't take a great deal of effort to link to Richard Binder's web pages (after you get past that weird Mac thing you need to do) but the effect of seeing that site on a new user is quite remarkable. Once they've been there, you won't hear from them for days. ;-)


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#27 rwilsonedn

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 17:40

Imagine that I develop a sudden curiosity to learn about string theory. I Google string theory, and among the first 70 pages of incomprehensible results I find an informal network of theoretical physicists who talk a lot about string theory.

Being polite, I don't want to just bust in with a stupid question. So I try the site search engine. Uh ... what do I search for? String? I get two pages of results, listed by topic. I don't understand more than a few words of any of them. I look through a few at random to see if I can find someone who seems to be writing in English. No luck. So despite my fear of offending people and looking like an idiot, I post a question along the lines of "Can anyone help me ask a first question about string theory?"

Flame. Derision. Ridicule. These are, after all, physicists.

Everyone starts out as a novice. As a novice, you don't know what the right questions are, and more importantly, you don't have the vocabulary yet to find them on your own. Using search effectively requires some knowledge of the vocabulary and syntax of the subject area.

So yes, I think we have to welcome that first question and help people along, even though we could easily find twelve answers to that same question with one search. It's a lot easier for folks who have been around for a while.

ron



#28 Biber

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 18:26

Ah... folks... I hate to break this to you but...  you are just as welcome NOT to reply to or participate in a thread as anybody is to ask a question or start a thread. I can understand the desire to be helpful but you have no right to be insensed that a poster didn't make the effort you felt they should have.

 

On that note, perhaps we should review some of your earliest posts...


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#29 dogpoet

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 19:06

Ah... folks... I hate to break this to you but...  you are just as welcome NOT to reply to or participate in a thread as anybody is to ask a question or start a thread. I can understand the desire to be helpful but you have no right to be insensed that a poster didn't make the effort you felt they should have.

 

On that note, perhaps we should review some of your earliest posts...

Word.



#30 Wahl

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 19:39

The essence of a forum is sharing information (I believe), so answering typical questions from newcomers should be a normal thing to do.

 

Where I draw the line is when somebody wants to know what pen he has, gives a simple description,  and doesn´t bother to send a photograph.



#31 owend

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 20:00

The essence of a forum is sharing information (I believe), so answering typical questions from newcomers should be a normal thing to do.

 

Where I draw the line is when somebody wants to know what pen he has, gives a simple description,  and doesn´t bother to send a photograph.

 

A good summary of the opinions on this thread!



#32 Sasha Royale

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 20:11

 

  along the lines of "I am new to this, my question is probably stupid, but . . .?" and the replies always seem courteous and helpful.

 

 

On FPN, as in other walks of life, if you make your own efforts and then ask politely, people are glad to help. If you simply want someone else to do your work for you, you will get a less helpful response.

 

It's okay to sit and watch while someone else escorts the "little old lady" across the street. However, if you choose to perform the good deed, DON'T drag the old lady so fast that she falls to the pavement.    Personally, I like " .  .  .  .  probably stupid but  .  .  ." questions.  

 

In another venue, YOU will be "stupid but".    


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#33 inkeverywhere

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 20:53

Didn't we all start out as "newbies" once, with some becoming the learned minds newbies are trying to glean information from.

I am 56 years of age, I know I don't know everything and still learn from thr FPN every day.

Stupid topics or not, topics posted under the incorrect heading ecetera, shouldn't we be a bit more tolerant.


Greg

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Handwriting - one of life's pure pleasures


#34 inkstainedruth

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 01:40

That was very funny. Are you saying your pen is yay big, or yay, it's big? hehehe

:lticaptd:

Even my husband, the non FP guy, thought that was funny....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

#35 inkstainedruth

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 01:49

I suspect we need a good dose of patience too. It's easy to become frustrated with the same repetitive questions over and over, but it's power for the course on a forum such as this. I see the same frustration on other hobby forums, but it is best to keep in mind that those annoyingly repetitive questions always represent new blood that will keep the hobby alive.

A couple of years ago my husband and I went on a bus trip to Mount Vernon.  When we got to the main house, there was a tour group ahead of us.  The docent in the front foyer probably gives the same spiel and gets asked the same questions all day long.  The woman was calm, efficient, professional and knowledgable.  I would go bananas if I had to do that day in, day out, all day long and every 10 minutes.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

#36 FOUR X FOUR

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 03:14

Randall said nothing about being hostile or impatient towards newbies. He was actually very clear in what his gripe was.

#37 Ghost Plane

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 03:16

A couple of years ago my husband and I went on a bus trip to Mount Vernon.  When we got to the main house, there was a tour group ahead of us.  The docent in the front foyer probably gives the same spiel and gets asked the same questions all day long.  The woman was calm, efficient, professional and knowledgable.  I would go bananas if I had to do that day in, day out, all day long and every 10 minutes.
Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


Which is why your moderators are occasionally found mumbling incomprehensibly in a corner while playing with their toes.

#38 aeba

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 09:57

Which is why your moderators are occasionally found mumbling incomprehensibly in a corner while playing with their toes.

That's still better than pulling the last (gray) hair out because someone sent a PM claiming all the mods on forum X being... "incompetent" because his / her post was deleted; while someone else sends a PM wanting the mods being harsher with moderating.

 

On topic: it's interesting to fiddle with Linux when I would need to google the question I would need to ask google to find the guide I would need (and which then will be out of date by some years).


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#39 owend

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 10:12

That's still better than pulling the last (gray) hair out because someone sent a PM claiming all the mods on forum X being... "incompetent" because his / her post was deleted; while someone else sends a PM wanting the mods being harsher with moderating.

 

On topic: it's interesting to fiddle with Linux when I would need to google the question I would need to ask google to find the guide I would need (and which then will be out of date by some years).

 

Linux is another excellent example of how to do things - it's complicated at several levels, but most flavours have their own forum, and there are several Linux-general forums, and all seem to have endless patient, tolerant and knowledgeable members. Like FPN.

 

Owen



#40 Randal6393

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 16:13

That's still better than pulling the last (gray) hair out because someone sent a PM claiming all the mods on forum X being... "incompetent" because his / her post was deleted; while someone else sends a PM wanting the mods being harsher with moderating.

 

On topic: it's interesting to fiddle with Linux when I would need to google the question I would need to ask google to find the guide I would need (and which then will be out of date by some years).

Yes! Twenty years worth of using Linux and I still feel like a tyro when dealing with a new distribution. While I have a few moments of "oh, what the hey" when dealing with questions, for the most part, I love returning the knowledge I receive from my studies to those that are asking questions. Whether on Linux or fountain pens or ...

 

Enjoy,


Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?
 






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