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Sailor Speciality Nib: What's The Point?

sailor pen sailor nibs specialty nibs

18 replies to this topic

#1 dms525

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 22:17

When I read descriptions of the Sailor Specialty Nibs, I believe I understand what each can do. However, I don't understand who would want to use them, other than those writing characters which are traditionally written using brushes. If you are writing in a language that uses the Latin alphabet, how would you use a Nagahara nib that gives different line thickness depending on the writing angle?

 

David



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#2 Pendel

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 22:41

It produces a different flair in the writing. Mine is not inked right now, but Ii am sure someone will put up an example before I can get it going.  :-)




#3 Algester

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 22:54

the naginata togi? simple 3 nib sizes in 1 EF-M F-B unless you need 1 nib per pen
Cobra, cross, concord and eagle signature nib

Edited by Algester, 23 October 2015 - 22:56.


#4 dms525

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 23:29

It produces a different flair in the writing. Mine is not inked right now, but Ii am sure someone will put up an example before I can get it going.  :-)

 

So, does "flair" come from varying the pen angle while writing a single sentence? Do you consciously decide what pen angle to use when writing each document? I am trying to visualize these nibs in real-life usage.  Annotated writing samples would certainly help.

 

David



#5 dms525

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 23:35

the naginata togi? simple 3 nib sizes in 1 EF-M F-B unless you need 1 nib per pen
Cobra, cross, concord and eagle signature nib

 

Does this mean that, for example, when using a Naginata Togi nib, you decide "For this document, I want to write very small script, so I will tilt the pen to achieve a narrow line?" I believe that, for those who have learned to write Japanese characters with a brush, changing the angle of the brush to the writing surface may be automatized, but I think most Western fountain pen users have developed a single, habitual pen angle, and they stick to it. Would this habit be hard to change? I really don't know, but I am curious about it.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

David



#6 Ghost Plane

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 00:00

I had both the eagle and cross nibs for ages, but sold the pens as they were too small for me. They did lovely things for me because I hold my pens way back where the section meets the body and sort of "sketch" my writing with long strokes. As a result, the different angles of attack gave lovely line variation for me. I suspect anyone who doesn't do shoulder writing won't have as much fun.

#7 dms525

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 00:50

Thanks for sharing your experience, GP. 

 

I am thinking these nibs would be interesting for me to play with, but not necessarily to own. 

 

David



#8 Pendel

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 01:29

 

So, does "flair" come from varying the pen angle while writing a single sentence? Do you consciously decide what pen angle to use when writing each document? I am trying to visualize these nibs in real-life usage.  Annotated writing samples would certainly help.

 

David

If you write in a large enough font, the angle of the pen has a natural variation and this affects the thickness of the lines: further away the lines are thicker than nearby, especially horizontally. If you are willing to be quite deliberate in holding the angle fixed, you can vary the line thickness, and so the "3 in 1" comment is apropos also.




#9 dms525

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 05:17

If you write in a large enough font, the angle of the pen has a natural variation and this affects the thickness of the lines: further away the lines are thicker than nearby, especially horizontally. If you are willing to be quite deliberate in holding the angle fixed, you can vary the line thickness, and so the "3 in 1" comment is apropos also.

 

I can visualize what you described. Very helpful. Thanks!

 

I am accustomed to choosing a wider (italic) nib when I want to write larger text. This is a different approach.

 

David



#10 Intellidepth

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 10:54

Thanks for sharing your experience, GP. 
 
I am thinking these nibs would be interesting for me to play with, but not necessarily to own. 
 
David

I'm halfway through grinding a Jinhao nib today. If I hold the pen so it is positioned more vertically I get a lovely fine line for down and cross strokes. If I hold it in my usual place I get a fine downstroke and wide cross stroke. If I turn it upside down it gives an xf line. Cheap way to play around. I'll finish grinding it another day so it is fine in all directions like a normal fine pen, and xf upside down. I could have made it go the other way with wide downstrokes and thin cross strokes but it is just a passing phase by an amateur to where I'm heading with the grind.

I do like the look of their multilayered nibs. I think that is pure genius. Doesn't mean I need one to use, but like you, it would be fun to have a go.
Edited to fix typos.

Edited by Intellidepth, 24 October 2015 - 10:57.

Noodler's Konrad Acrylics (normal+Da Luz custom flex) ~ Lamy AL-Stars/Vista F/M/1.1 ~ Handmade Barry Roberts Dayacom M ~ Waterman 32 1/2, F semi-flex nib ~ Conklin crescent, EF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen EEF super-flex ~ Aikin Lambert dip pen semi-flex M ~ Jinhao X450s ~ Pilot Custom Heritage 912 Posting Nib ~ Sailor 1911 Profit 21k Rhodium F. Favourite inks: Iroshizuku blends, Noodler's CMYK blends.

#11 Abner C. Kemp

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 14:55

It seems the majority of the Sailor nibs are tailored towards brush like eastern writing styles. As you say, for writing the western alphabet the nibs are less than ideal. I suppose one could learn to write by adjusting writing angles for line variation but a simple italic nib makes life much easier. I do think the nibs could be useful to someone who writes very large characters. The Fude nib styles also make for a nice signature pen. 

 

As you say, it is fun to play around with these kind of nibs. I purchased a Jinhao Fude nib on eBay for about $10 awhile back. Of course, it is no King Eagle nib but it is fun to play around with for a justifiable cost. Might be worth consideration if you're looking to toy around a bit. 



#12 Randal6393

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 17:13

Hmmm ... well, David,

 

I have two specialty writing styles to focus on, the broad-edged nib and the flex nib. Probably won't try to learn another system. would just take too much time and effort that I could spend on other studies.

 

I learned Japanese characters and find that writing them well is more dependent on manipulation of the pen or pencil than on the particular tip of the writing tool. Saw many examples of masterful calligraphy performed with a common 0.5 mm pencil tip or a common fine ballpoint pen. And a lot of messes made with a fude brush by people trying to learn the strokes.

 

The cursive italic nib, offered in a Sailor Lame pen -- somewhere around $300 retail -- now, that is tempting!

 

Enjoy,


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From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?
 


#13 dms525

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 19:09

Hmmm ... well, David,

 

I have two specialty writing styles to focus on, the broad-edged nib and the flex nib. Probably won't try to learn another system. would just take too much time and effort that I could spend on other studies.

 

I learned Japanese characters and find that writing them well is more dependent on manipulation of the pen or pencil than on the particular tip of the writing tool. Saw many examples of masterful calligraphy performed with a common 0.5 mm pencil tip or a common fine ballpoint pen. And a lot of messes made with a fude brush by people trying to learn the strokes.

 

The cursive italic nib, offered in a Sailor Lame pen -- somewhere around $300 retail -- now, that is tempting!

 

Enjoy,

 

I have no particular desire to learn Japanese calligraphy ... at this time. 

 

But, Randal, are you saying Sailor makes a cursive italic nib or that if they were to make one, it would be "tempting?"

 

David



#14 Keyless Works

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 19:42

I have a buffalo horn Stylo Art with a naginata togi and for me, someone with bad handwriting, it is more of a novelty.  The nib is soft and juicy which I like and there is some slight line variation when I write normally.  Also you do have the option to write with a fine to very broad line which can be useful.  Obviously when writing something long you are going to want to hold the pen at whatever angle is comfortable for you.  If I am writing a letter I can write the date and return address small with a very fine line, write the body holding the pen at my normal angle giving more of a medium line and finally sign the letter with a very broad line. 



#15 dms525

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:21

I have a buffalo horn Stylo Art with a naginata togi and for me, someone with bad handwriting, it is more of a novelty.  The nib is soft and juicy which I like and there is some slight line variation when I write normally.  Also you do have the option to write with a fine to very broad line which can be useful.  Obviously when writing something long you are going to want to hold the pen at whatever angle is comfortable for you.  If I am writing a letter I can write the date and return address small with a very fine line, write the body holding the pen at my normal angle giving more of a medium line and finally sign the letter with a very broad line. 

 

Thanks for describing how you use the naginata togi nib. That is exactly the kind of information I was hoping to get.

 

FYI, I write mostly in italic script, including letters and checks. I still sign my checks with a round nibbed pen, using the same color ink as the italic. So, I use two pens to write checks. This is not a problem for me. Similarly, when addressing envelopes, I may use a fine italic nib for the return address and a wider italic nib for the addressee's address. Again, this is not a problem. In fact, it gives me an excuse to use more of my pens. (I generally have way too many pens inked. I try to keep the number low enough that I don't have to take off my shoes to count them.) I do keep all my inked pens in a display box or in cups within arm's reach of where I sit at my desk.

 

David



#16 Algester

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 05:21

I have no particular desire to learn Japanese calligraphy ... at this time. 
 
But, Randal, are you saying Sailor makes a cursive italic nib or that if they were to make one, it would be "tempting?"
 
David

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CY8mls1.jpg
oops my mistake it was a zoom nib

#17 Moynihan

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Posted 03 November 2015 - 03:17

I do not have one of their specialty nibs, but i do have a Zoom nib (21ct) which is a regular nib option. 

I enjoy the variable line depending on angle, etc.

One practical aspect of this nib is it can be used, writing on the "top"/upside down of the nib if you really need a fine point, and using a really low angle for a BB-BBB signature.

My Zoom nib is really smooth also, The "feel" is special, kind of like a soft pencil, at medium to low angles. 


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#18 JQTian

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 15:12

Ok, even this is rather an "old" post, I will share some of my thoughts.

 

I do traditional Chinese calligraphy, with brushes and pens. And I live in the Florida, so, my daily writing is still English. 

 

Let me put it this way, for my bold naginata togi nib, wrtting English with it is not very pleasing. Butter-cutting smooth? Yes! But, too bold, and too juice. Really just a signature pen. English letters don't really have much variation, in sense of stroke direction and length. For English writing, my favorite is Visconti Dream Touch nibs, those you can find on Homo Sapiens.

 

However, when it comes to chinese calligraphy (Japanese Kanji calligraphy writes Chinese words too.), totally different story. Chinese words are so complicated, and it gives the nib a lot of free degree when you write, that including the pen's angle. My Togi can sometime deliver a stroke variation as rich as brushes. That is the best fountain pen to write chinese words. Please see the blue circles in the picture, as you can find stroke variations easily.IMG_6673.jpg

 

To be honest, almost all fountain pens can write thinner when you write in a vertical position, since you are using only the tip. But these Naginata are so very smooth even you are just using the tip, that's something.

 

I just wish I was born few years earlier, so that I can still buy a Cross Point with $600. 


Edited by JQTian, 30 March 2018 - 15:29.


#19 ENewton

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 17:05

I practice Japanese calligraphy with brushes and recently tried a naginata togi nib.  It did not work for me at all, because the means of achieving line variation, by changing the angle of the pen, is so different from using a brush.

 

How long did it take for you to learn to write characters with the naginata togi, and when you return to the brush after using the naginata togi nib, do you find yourself accidentally changing the angle of the brush as you would the pen?





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