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Questions About Pilot Decimo Vs Vanishing Point Nibs Vs Capless

decimo vanishing point metropolitan prera penmanship

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21 replies to this topic

#1 civil

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 20:26

Hello. I am hoping someone could answer a few questions about the VP & Decimo pens if able, for lack of seeing the pen in person before ordering, mainly about the nibs:

 

1-I am under the impression that the matte black VP in medium might be a lot wetter than the medium Decimo, something about the intended market.  Is that correct? If so, how does the medium nib in the Decimo and the VP compare to, say, the Metropolitan medium?  

 

2-If the VP & Decimo are different in actual nib size, are the special alloy (capless) and the Decimo 18k the same actual size?  (That is, their mediums are the same, their fines same, etc)

 

3-Keeping the lower end Pilots in mind for comparison (Penmanship, Metropolitan, Prera), how do the extra fine and fine nibs on the VP and the Decimo compare with those (if you have tried them)? Is the VP xf the same as the Penmanship for example, or the fine Decimo the same as the Prera fine?

 

Basically I am not sure whether to get a fine or a medium VP or Decimo, since I like my Prera with a fine nib, and my Metropolitan medium.

 

For clarity, when I say VP I am referring to the matte black brass pen, when Decimo, to the aluminum with gold nib.


Edited by civil, 22 October 2015 - 21:18.


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#2 vnnil

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 22:37

Hi civil. I'll try to answer as best as I can:

 

1. VP/Decimo lines are thicker than the rest of Pilot nibs; they are closer to their western counterparts.

 

2. I have not previously owned a 'special alloy' one. However, Pilot gold nibs tend to be wetter (hence wider line) than the steel ones.

 

3. The VP fine is definitely wider than the Prera's/Metropolitan one. The VP's extra fine tipping is similar to that of the Penmanship, but it writes wider in practice.

 

VP fine is closer to steel (Prera/Metro) medium.

 

Taking a look at Goulet's nib nook would probably help you choose.



#3 civil

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 00:13

Thanks for the link to the nib nook, that is definitely helpful.  

 

 

1. VP/Decimo lines are thicker than the rest of Pilot nibs; they are closer to their western counterparts.

 

Are you basically saying that there is no difference between VP & Decimo nibs in your experience?  That is one of the issues I am trying to clarify for myself (the so called american market VP pens vs Japanese market capless pens).

 

Your comment comparing the VP xf to the Penmanship is interesting, I am not sure I would prefer a scratchy, wet nib, but only in the sense that I don't like it when a nib feel on paper doesn't match the line it draws (I have noticed that with some chinese pens, though of course that depends on ink and paper).

 

On the other hand, the nook site seems to show the VP fine writes about the same as a Kaweco Sport xf, maybe the Sport is wetter, since I have that pen I know it is not too wet.

 

Going by the Nook site, I might go for a VP fine nib, since it appears to resemble the Metropolitan medium.  

As far as gold vs steel, I am under the impression the low end Pilots are all intended to be more on the dry side (at least that's my experience with all the ones I have).  I suspect that might not be the case with the high end capless pens, even the steel ones (based on reviews), though I would need to confirm my suspicion.


Edited by civil, 23 October 2015 - 00:15.


#4 rdh

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 01:05

It is my understanding that the nib units for VP and Decimo are the same.  Jet pens has both and they say 

 

"This is a nib replacement and twist converter for Pilot Namiki Vanishing Point fountain pens. It is also compatible with the Pilot Capless Decimo Fountain Pens listed under Compatible Products. The nib is 18-carat gold and rhodium-plated. The converter is the Pilot CON-50 converter."

 

Although Jet pens is an American web site, they sell a number of Japanese market pens.  I have only seen the special alloy VP on Asian sites.  I am sure it is good, but the gold nib is special.

 

Dave



#5 vnnil

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 01:34

Yeah, as rdh said, VP/Decimo nibs are pretty much the same.

 

The EF VP nib is by no means scratchy, unless its tines are miss-aligned; It is very fine though, so it can dig on paper if your writing pressure is excessive.

I find it very enjoyable with Pilot or Sailor ink. However, sometimes I switch to a drier ink, so it doesn't bleed or feathers on cheap papers.

 

In my experience, steel nibs are indeed drier. I do not think it is a disadvantage, because makes them more suitable for general purpose tasks.

 

I hope you enjoy your new pen!



#6 Brian C

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 01:35

Yes, the vp and the Decimo use the same nibs. The "special alloy" nibs that I have tried were dry.



#7 civil

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 02:17

It is my understanding that the nib units for VP and Decimo are the same.  Jet pens has both and they say 

 

"This is a nib replacement and twist converter for Pilot Namiki Vanishing Point fountain pens. It is also compatible with the Pilot Capless Decimo Fountain Pens listed under Compatible Products. The nib is 18-carat gold and rhodium-plated. The converter is the Pilot CON-50 converter."

 

Yeah, as rdh said, VP/Decimo nibs are pretty much the same.

 

Yes, the vp and the Decimo use the same nibs. The "special alloy" nibs that I have tried were dry.

 

Just to clarify, I know all the different capless pens use compatible/interchangeable nibs, in that sense they are all the same.  What I meant by different, is different laying of ink, slightly different writing experience, etc.  I guess that applies only to the steel ones then.   :blush:

 

The comment about the special alloy being drier, is what I had read before also, so I am debating between an apparently smoother but more expensive nib (18k gold) or the steel with an apparently drier nib that is sufficiently smooth (my Metropolitan steel nib is a lot smoother than the Pelikan M15, gold nib and all).  

 

Another issue I was considering is that the Decimo's are apparently slimmer, narrower pens, but they come with gold nibs, and apparently all the steel alloy are of the fatter variety, although being aluminum instead of brass like the matte black (favorite color of the capless bunch), they should be lighter I guess.

 

The expensive ones are expected to come down a lot for black friday. the steel ones probably will stay close to what they are now, based on my research, will see if I jump the gun and get one soon, hehehe.


Edited by civil, 23 October 2015 - 02:23.


#8 Brian C

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 02:38

Try j-subculture. They have them fairly cheap. To me, the steel nibs just aren't worth the savings.



#9 civil

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 03:02

Try j-subculture. They have them fairly cheap. To me, the steel nibs just aren't worth the savings.

 

You mean, because the gold ones maybe smoother?  But aren't they also noticeably wetter?  From the nib nook site above at least, the Namiki Vanishing Point ones do seem as wet as Pelikans, but my aim is note taking on regular paper or computer paper, rather than on more expensive paper like Rhodia.

 

Maybe I need to travel to a city with a pen shop and see for myself.



#10 Brian C

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 03:04

In my experience the VP nibs are nowhere near as wet as Pelikans. I use a VP with a fine gold nib on cheap paper all the time. No issues.



#11 rdh

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 10:37

The wetness of a nib depends on many things, including the paper and the ink you are using.  Those things are easy to change at minimal expense.  Note, if you go to a shop and try a nib, dipping the pen will almost always be wetter than a pen that is filled with ink.  

 

Dave



#12 civil

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 17:01

Thanks for all the replies.  I think I might be able to take a look at a VP when I get a chance to drive to Cincinnati, at the Appointments shop, sometime in the next few weeks, I think they carry them, hopefully more than one type.



#13 civil

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 21:02

Got my VP on another sale, never expected it to be more designed for cheap paper at this price range, definitely a surprise. Now I need to decide whether to get a VP nib unit just for bay state blue, or go with a kaweco sport as originally planned. The VP is a rather compelling pen, quite happy with it.

#14 rdh

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 22:49

I wouldn't recommend using an ink that might creep.  It will make a mess inside the barrel of the VP and maybe outside too.

 

Dave



#15 civil

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Posted 03 November 2015 - 00:03

I wouldn't recommend using an ink that might creep.  It will make a mess inside the barrel of the VP and maybe outside too.

 

Dave

Is that why they come with the black nib?  I just realized I cannot easily tell whether or not Florida blue is creeping on the nib or not, but it has really bad nib creep on the Metro and the Prera.



#16 civil

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 04:37

If anyone is still reading this topic, what is the difference between the vp extra fine nib, and using the vp fine nib upside down?  I ask because I find using the fine nib upside down quite satisfactory.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.   :)



#17 WirsPlm

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 05:47

If anyone is still reading this topic, what is the difference between the vp extra fine nib, and using the vp fine nib upside down?  I ask because I find using the fine nib upside down quite satisfactory.
 
Thanks for your thoughts.   :)


Sounds like the VP has a nib that's smoothed all the way around, using a nib upsidedown just means that the top of the tipping is writing instead of the bottom and a lot of brands don't bother smoothing that because no one will use it (or at least, almost no one).

#18 civil

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 10:10

Sounds like the VP has a nib that's smoothed all the way around, using a nib upsidedown just means that the top of the tipping is writing instead of the bottom and a lot of brands don't bother smoothing that because no one will use it (or at least, almost no one).

Thanks for your thoughts, but I am not sure you understood my question, I am asking about two different nibs: the extra fine, vs the fine nib used upside down.  In other words, is the difference significant enough to also buy the extra fine nib, that is the intent of the question.  The fine nib upside down is quite dry, yet smooth.



#19 WirsPlm

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 01:15

Thanks for your thoughts, but I am not sure you understood my question, I am asking about two different nibs: the extra fine, vs the fine nib used upside down.  In other words, is the difference significant enough to also buy the extra fine nib, that is the intent of the question.  The fine nib upside down is quite dry, yet smooth.


That clears things up, that dryness is probably from not enough ink getting to the top of the nib to let the nib glide smoothly, which isn't surprising since the pen isn't designed to write upsidedown. Nibs rely on a certain amount of ink to glide well in addition to the smoothness of the metal, so if you've got a smooth metal tip that doesn't get enough ink it will be dry despite not snagging on fibers or feeling rough.

#20 Bill Smith

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 00:22

Yes, the vp and the Decimo use the same nibs. The "special alloy" nibs that I have tried were dry.

That's been my experience too. I prefer the medium width gold nibs. 


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: decimo, vanishing point, metropolitan, prera, penmanship



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