Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies



Announcement: New Privacy Policy
Please note that as of today, May 25, 2018, a new Privacy & Cookie Policy is in force, compliant with the GDPR. By continuing to use FPN, you accept this new policy.
You may find the new policy by clicking the button or link at the bottom of each page called "Privacy Policy", or alternatively by clicking below:

New Privacy Policy
***** The FPN Admin Team *****





Photo

Pelikan M1000 Vs. Sailor King Of Pen

sailor pelikan m1000 kop

  • Please log in to reply
47 replies to this topic

#21 Bluey

Bluey

    Somewhere between green and indigo

  • Away
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,961 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 06 March 2018 - 19:59

Where am I to find another Sailor KOP nib if I should grow tired of the existing one or when it gives me problems? With Pelikans, no such worries

 

The Pelikan nibs cost almost as much as the pen, so don't forget to mention that.

 

I would far rather put my trust in Sailor not having any flow issues than Pelikan. Just read the reviews and vouch for yourself.

Don't forget to mention that too.


Edited by Bluey, 06 March 2018 - 20:10.

Mediterranean blue, Asa Goa, China blue, Royal blue, Sapphire blue, Indigo, Washable Blue....the colours of the rainbow.

Sponsored Content

#22 alanshutko

alanshutko

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 105 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 06 March 2018 - 20:28

The problems with Pelikan seem to be out of the box baby bottom or possibly tine QA problems needing adjustment.  Once those are taken care of, I don't know of any problems with Pelikan flow.  

 

I do wish that Pelikan's out-of-the-box experience was better, but for now I'll just buy from vendors that test and tweak nibs when I order them.



#23 Mew

Mew

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 976 posts
  • Location:Kyoto/Tokyo, Japan

Posted 06 March 2018 - 20:36

I've found that my M1000 writes less number of pages than the KOP i briefly had, with the same ink.

#24 minddance

minddance

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 713 posts

Posted 06 March 2018 - 20:39

The Pelikan nibs cost almost as much as the pen, so don't forget to mention that.
 
I would far rather put my trust in Sailor not having any flow issues than Pelikan. Just read the reviews and vouch for yourself.
Don't forget to mention that too.


Cost is just a matter of where you get it from, and it seems like you haven't been looking at quite the right places. To some, if a problem can be solved by money alone, then it is not a problem at all. My point is that sailor offers no such possibility, regardless of cost :)

Reviews mean nothing to my own hands and my experience. Because I am the one paying and writing, my experience matters, not quite the reviewers' experience. Afterall, writing techniques and preferences can differ vastly.

That being said, I respect your positive experience with Sailor pens, still. :)

#25 guyinkits

guyinkits

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 83 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 06 March 2018 - 21:27

They are both great pens. Part of it really depends on your writing preferences. The Pelikan writes really broad in any size compared to the sailor nibs. If you want anything fine or extra fine that really is a precise thin line, you would have to go Sailor unless you want nib work done. If you like soft springy juicy nibs, then Pelikan would be the way to go. My KOP is a bit springy but it's not soft like the Pelikan. And if you like either rotating pens often or inks often, then the Sailor is the way to go with the CC. Otherwise, if long writing sessions is your thing, the Pelikan is the much better choice with it's high ink capacity. I love both of them for different reasons.

#26 Strelnikoff

Strelnikoff

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 229 posts
  • Location:Houston, Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 06 March 2018 - 21:34

The Pelikan nibs cost almost as much as the pen, so don't forget to mention that.

 

I would far rather put my trust in Sailor not having any flow issues than Pelikan. Just read the reviews and vouch for yourself.

Don't forget to mention that too.

 

Indeed, Pelikan nibs (M1000 especially) are expensive. Personally - I'd rather buy a new pen with the nib I want, than a nib unit as "standalone" for exchange. And used or "older" nib units could be found for less (than new ones). Again, I'd go for a new pen.

 

As for the Sailor reliability vs. Pelikan - I had more issues with Sailor pens than with Pelikan pens. But I would not go as far as to say any of those issues were not quickly to fix. Usually it was a matter of minor adjustments. 

So today my Pelikan and Sailor are equally reliable. 

 

In USA - price wise - Sailor KOPs are SERIOUSLY overpriced. True price for resin (plastic) pens should be 350-450 USD max! Ebonite - perhaps 100 bucks more.

 

I cannot understand how is it possible that other imported pens (from Germany or France... or Italy) are more competitive price-wise than Sailor pens... if the price in Japan is low(er) that means manufacturer price is on par with European manufacturers. So - what kind of trade "deal" is there, when Japanese pens get 35-50% price hike in transfer from Tokyo to LA?



#27 Strelnikoff

Strelnikoff

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 229 posts
  • Location:Houston, Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 06 March 2018 - 21:35

I've found that my M1000 writes less number of pages than the KOP i briefly had, with the same ink.

 

Maybe (I've experienced that) Pelikan is wetter? I have higher ink flow from my Pelikan than from my Sailor pen(s).



#28 Strelnikoff

Strelnikoff

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 229 posts
  • Location:Houston, Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 06 March 2018 - 21:37

Has anyone tried to convert Sailor KOP - to eyedropper? Namely - ebonite version? 



#29 Bluey

Bluey

    Somewhere between green and indigo

  • Away
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,961 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 06 March 2018 - 21:38

In USA - price wise - Sailor KOPs are SERIOUSLY overpriced.

 

They probably are, but thankfully I don't have to buy from USA. I've only ever bought straight from Japan unless it's unavailable there such as various demonstrators.
 

Pelikan is the much better choice with it's high ink capacity

It doesn't have that high ink capacity(1.35), as reported by Pelikan. The Sailor cartridge is reported to be not much less at 1.1ml.
 
Bear in mind that the Sailor produces a finer line, and you do appreciate that when one pen produces a finer and more regulated ink flow then it uses considerably less ink than a wider nib that gushes, do you not?

Nib for nib, the line is approx twice the width and more gushing which would mean that the Pelikan would need an ink capacity of more than double to compete with Sailor in terms of how much writing you can get from one complete fill..


Edited by Bluey, 06 March 2018 - 21:50.

Mediterranean blue, Asa Goa, China blue, Royal blue, Sapphire blue, Indigo, Washable Blue....the colours of the rainbow.

#30 Mew

Mew

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 976 posts
  • Location:Kyoto/Tokyo, Japan

Posted 06 March 2018 - 21:52

 
Maybe (I've experienced that) Pelikan is wetter? I have higher ink flow from my Pelikan than from my Sailor pen(s).


It was more in response to a post that sailor pens don't have a decent ink capacity. Pelikan doesn't either.

#31 Mew

Mew

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 976 posts
  • Location:Kyoto/Tokyo, Japan

Posted 06 March 2018 - 21:55

Has anyone tried to convert Sailor KOP - to eyedropper? Namely - ebonite version? 


Metal finials. Can't be done.

#32 Mulrich

Mulrich

    Modern Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,162 posts

Posted 06 March 2018 - 22:04

I've only used one M1000, so my experience is limited, but I really don't like the nib. Even with dry ink, the nib is too wet to be usable. I also found the nib squishy (not springy) making it unpleasant to use. The nib was badly misaligned out of the box so maybe I just got a dud. I come back to the pen every few months hoping the experience will be different but it has yet to win me over. 

 

I'm a much bigger fan of Sailor KOP. The preference is mainly because of the nibs, which are spectacular. Well-behaved, smooth, crisp, etc. I'm also one of the few people who prefer cc pens to pistons. I can have a KOP totally cleaned out in under a minute whereas piston-filled pens are laborious to clean, even with Pelikan's easily removable nib unit. I also think cc pens are easier for travel since cartridges are easier to carry (and replace during a meeting) than bottles. 

 

Even though I don't like the M1000, the M800 is one of my favorite models (I have more of these than any other pen model). Thus my comments are limited to the M1000 and not Pelikan or piston-fillers in general. 



#33 zaddick

zaddick

    BROADside Ambassador

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,592 posts
  • Location:SF Bay Area
  • Flag:

Posted 06 March 2018 - 22:41

Lots of excitement after all these years!

I have both and use both.

Pelikan M1000 nibs are borderline unusable due to wetness for the line width is many cases, and you can only choke down the flow so much with simple modifications. I just use better paper and it helps. I find them brush like in their softness and sometimes describe them as mushy. It is different than any other factory nib I have tried. But I like the old oblique nibs they no longer make so I keep a few around. I also have a fee modified and retipped for more interesting writing.

That Sailor KOP in ebonite is a better fit for my hand and the specialty nibs are a real pleasure. The regular M and B are fine but the Naginata nibs are real fun to write with, especially the Cross Point. A cartridge solves much of the ink capacity issue.

For most people the Pelikan is probably a better fit for ink capacity, reliability, and cost used. Nib swapping is a great feature for those who use it, and if nothing else it makes cleaning a lot faster.

If I could only keep one, it would be the Sailor KOP in Ebonite or urushi. I can always get a custom pen made to utilize my M1000 nibs. :)

#34 EricTheRed

EricTheRed

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 255 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 07 March 2018 - 00:02

I had both a Pelikan M1000 Fine and an Ebonite Sailor KOP Medium for a number of years. Both pens exude quality and are some of the best writers in all of pendom.  I eventually sold the KOP because, although it wrote very well, it was not noticeably different to me than the outstanding 21K nibs on my Professional Gear, 1911L and 1911S pens.  The latter pens were easier to carry and write with, so the KOP ended up being consigned solely to part time desk duty.  The Pelikan's nib is VERY different than any of my other fountain pens including my M800s, 600s, 400s and 200s and I love writing with its juicy, wet, smooth nib.  Its easily one of my favorite pens and I would not even consider selling it.  To me, the Pelikan M1000 is a better pen but the KOP is also a very good choice. 



#35 jar

jar

    A Vintage Pen has to be older than me.

  • Premium - Ruby

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,110 posts
  • Location:From Deep South Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:34

I've had both; still have several Sailor KoPs but the Pelikan 1050 has gone to a new home. I particularly like the shorter length and wider body of my Sailor ProGear KoPs, much like the format of another of my favorites, the Sheaffer PFM/Legacy family of pens. I am a fan of the fountain pen cartridge format and will always choose a cartridge over other filling systems so that is another factor that would weigh heavily in my selection.


My Sister's website :  Rose Hill Studios

My Website


#36 WmEdwards

WmEdwards

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 82 posts
  • Location:Biloxi/Pascagoula MS, USA
  • Flag:

Posted 07 March 2018 - 21:50

I have 2 M1000's, and lets say "several" KOP's.  A valid criticism of both pens are the prices, especially the KOP price in the US.  The M1000 is sloppy wet in both of mine, which I don't mind so much as I like wet pens, but a bit "unpredictable" ink to ink, if that makes sense.  The KOP's are a dream to write with, especially a MF naginata-togi, but they seem to hold very little link, to me.  Or they just run out faster than the M1000.  On balance, I slightly prefer the KOP with a nagahara nib.  SOMEONE should be able to come up with a bigger interior diameter convertor for the KOP.  Please?


...So much ink, so little penmanship....

#37 Strelnikoff

Strelnikoff

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 229 posts
  • Location:Houston, Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 08 March 2018 - 19:59

I have 2 M1000's, and lets say "several" KOP's.  A valid criticism of both pens are the prices, especially the KOP price in the US.  The M1000 is sloppy wet in both of mine, which I don't mind so much as I like wet pens, but a bit "unpredictable" ink to ink, if that makes sense.  The KOP's are a dream to write with, especially a MF naginata-togi, but they seem to hold very little link, to me.  Or they just run out faster than the M1000.  On balance, I slightly prefer the KOP with a nagahara nib.  SOMEONE should be able to come up with a bigger interior diameter convertor for the KOP.  Please?

 

Maybe a custom made one? :)  this is a challenge... Id even consider butchering one converter and attaching a bladder... on top of the bigger diameter tube... that would be proper franken converter ... 



#38 littlepen

littlepen

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 261 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 11 March 2018 - 13:02

Would it be possible to 3D print a larger cartridges if given the internal dimensions of the KOP ?

#39 littlepen

littlepen

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 261 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 11 March 2018 - 13:10

I think cutting the bottom off a standard cartridge sanding the cartridge to provide better grip for the glue/Shaka and attaching a sack sounds doable

#40 Strelnikoff

Strelnikoff

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 229 posts
  • Location:Houston, Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 11 March 2018 - 19:13

Would it be possible to 3D print a larger cartridges if given the internal dimensions of the KOP ?

 

 

Probably. The problem would be the material - cartridges are made of somewhat soft plastic, and there's that interference fit which provides sealing. 

Most of the materials I've seen and used in 3D printing are polymers and fairly hard ones. The softer polymers exist. Worth trying though...







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: sailor, pelikan, m1000, kop



Sponsored Content




|