None Of The Starter Pens Cut It

[sirach]

Absolutely agree with linearM...millions of elementary school children learned to write cursive with Esterbrook pens in the '40s and '50s with nary a problem. I thinks it's a primo starter pen and beats out any modern writing instrument on the market...and they continue to be price friendly to the average consumer.

And supposedly, Esterbrook is making a come-back http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/02/05/reviving-the-pen-that-wrote-american-history/22941265/

[Kataphract]

Cheap pens pretty much by definition are going to have compromises in their design. Why cheap plastic? Because it is a cheap pen. Why a pronounced step? Because it isn't cheap plastic, and designing around that would make the pen more expensive. Funky triangular grip? To borrow from the software industry: That's not a bug, that's a feature! Ugly? That's always in the eye of the beholder, and demanding that everyone have as good taste as you - or awful, depending on the viewpoint, though I think Lamys are fugly, and at least I have a degree in art so I can pretend like my opinion is automatically superior - is tilting at windmills.

 

So, with the Metro, you get a non-cheap plastic barrel made of metal, but to cut down on machining and to give it a sleek look (because that helps sell pens) you get a snap cap with a pronounced step. Otherwise the cap is bulkier, heavier, and visually jarring, but still a snap cap. Further, this is a starter pen, and people stepping up to fountain pens aren't used to screw on caps. So, a balance of design decisions based on a certain price point and targeted market audience, and you get one of the best bang for the buck pens out there - but! It isn't perfect. For me, it fulfilled its function: beater pen that I could take anywhere that still wrote exceedingly well, and not be panicked about losing it or it getting damaged, and yet convinced me that if I coyld get such an outstanding if not perfect value from Pilot, maybe I should consider their more expensive pens when I'm looking for a non-starter pen.

[ironwampa]

Mnemosyne makes a pen that I think is exactly as described by J8¢¥£°=£℅®©£ that might be worth looking at.

[PS104]

So you want to complain.... now I understand...

I think perhaps then, the pen for you....

 

http://www.srdailey.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/pilot_07-blk1.jpg

Amen

Edited October 6, 2015 by PS104

[Algester]

well besides the prera, Preppy is undoubtedly a starter pen sure its made with plastic but to me it has no design quirks it works its meant to be a cheap everyday school pen,

there's also the daiso platinum reviere which is on the cheaper that cheap scale but also has no design quirks besides again in plastic, while I do like to get into Sailor's offerings but they are all over the place in terms of performance and smoothness

but to me thats functionality is at the top priority though because how hard it is to find a 1USD FP in daiso here in my country makes it a harder endevour but if all else fails there's the trusty Vpen which in my place is more common :3

Edited October 6, 2015 by Algester

[tinta]

Given the parameters that the OP has given us for a "high quality/low price pen", it would seem difficult for a manufacturer to produce such an instrument (& survive financially).

What the OP asks for is in the realm of the "non-obtainum".

 

The many models mentioned on this longish thread have been successful enough for their followers, for whom they have performed adequately.

All pens, from the lowly Preppy to the exalted King of Pen have some quirks, some negative features.

Just depends on how much money you want to spend & what amount of inconvenience you are willing to bear, if the product is "not quite up to snuff"

There is also a good reason why many folks here collect a variety of pens.

You may find more happiness with vintage pens.

Edited October 6, 2015 by tinta

[inkeverywhere]

You really need to think about going to a bricks and mortar pen store, if there is not one nearby wait to your next trip to a place that does have one. Nothing beats being able to pick up a prospective contender for your next pen and seeing how it feels in YOUR hand.

 

I'm sure you are going to get heaps of opinions as to what could suit you, and I'm sure they are given with the best of intentions but you sound like me - the pen has to feel right in your hand.

 

I have bought a number of pens, online, over the years after having read reviews and looked at photos thinking this is one I want, only to be disappointed with them.

 

My advice is keep your hard earned cash in you pocket until you can get a contender in your hands.

 

 

 

Greg

[brunico]

Also, proprietary carts. No thanks.

 

This isn't a problem for people who use bottled ink or who live in places where ordinary, high-street stationery shops carry the various cartridges for the different fountain pens they sell. If you live in a town where you couldn't pick up Parker cartridges on the way to school, for example, I can see how proprietary cartridges would be a problem.

 

I don't think starter pens exist, by the way, except as a marketing term, outside very obvious cases like the Lamy ABC. Fountain pens all do exactly the same job in the same basic way, just like biros, and we don't speak about starter biros or intermediate-level rollerballs or gel pens for advanced users. That would be ridiculous.

 

Nonetheless, some of my so-called starter pens - such as the italic-nibbed Pilot Plumix - routinely defeat the skills of people who've spent hundreds more on a single pen.

 

In that case, perhaps that flagship, gold-nibbed pen they bought is really the starter pen.

[catbert]

I don’t need a starter pen either, so it’s hard to judge if the current crop cuts it. Seems to me you’re really asking what’s changed. The basic general-use ('standard') pens you’re talking about used to exist because they were a necessity. The user profile is different now because there’s more of a hobby aspect to this.

Even with school pens, Christof shows the Pelikano evolving over 50 years from something resembling a pen in the regular line-up at the time to something more ‘helpful’ in terms of size, grip guidance, etc. Today’s pens are much more specifically targeted. See also Pelikano Junior, Griffix and Twist.

So, if manufacturers don’t offer no-frills versions of regular production pens as entry-level options, maybe they don’t see a market there. Maybe fountain pens are such a quirky niche that quirky niche pens are needed to lure people in?

 

[Sandy Fry]

@the OP

 

When your first words are to complain about the " popular " starter pens not being suited for you then it is no wonder folks, including myself, were thinking you were looking for a starter pen.

 

I have no problems with any of the pens mentioned so far because they do what I ask them to do, put ink on a piece of paper. However, if I made my living writing then I would be a little more critical.

 

The Lamy Safari, Jinhao 450/750, Pilot Metropolitan...etc sell in huge numbers so maybe the problem is with YOU! Maybe you just need to adjust your grip or your hand size is just not suited to certain pens. Just a thought.

 

Also, living in a small town I usually order my cartridges online and it is just as easy for me to order propriety cartridges as it is Standard International so I have no problems ordering pens that don't take Standard International cartridges.

 

I think your suggestion is valid and that there are pens out there that fit the bill either with propriety cartridges or other filling systems.

 

David

[Algester]

but let's ask the fundamental ultimately subjective question what is a starter pen for you

to me it was the Lamy Logo, at worst it was a knock off of a Cross Century (that was my very first one broken FP I used heck the tipping was already bent and half wasted)

some people say its a 146, 149 some say M800, M1000, modernist say its the Pilot MR, The Platinum Preppy, Pelikano Jr, the pilot Vpen, 78G, the penmanship and a lot of other cheaper offerings my starter pen wasnt clearly the Lamy Al-star, safari that people like but it was a very modern office looking pen that is perhaps commonly overshadowed by the popularity of a triangular grip

 

to me a starter pen must fit the niche of being able to easily enter the field without too much of an affront cost that looks pleasant to me no matter how people dis about the X pen and it's flaws but its a good starting point, the reason why I chose the Logo to me was because it was the underdog of the lower tier "pro" looking lamy pen that has the same versatility as any other Lamy pen has to offer including changeable nibs, should I not like the first chosen nib which would be a Fine nib I could have opt for an EF, or an M it filled my niche need as an EDC since in my country all Lamy pens can be pre-selected with a nib of a customer's choosing and then if we just want to expand we just pay for that additional nib, anyone who still remember's about gouletpen's nib swap on their Lamy pen selection would know this service, then I decided that I want to try another brand again a starter pen that was the Sailor Lecoule, cool looking pen badly performing nib to a school niche but its still under that "student" budget pen since it actually costs similar to the Sailor my first pen which has a Fude nib, so I decided I'd stick with the Lamy logo but since the bad performance of the Sailor nib I had I had to try another brand and we just got recently introduced to TWSBI, so after doing a little research I decided to jump the gun and bought me a TWSBI mini (almost 2ml ink capacity and is a piston filler whats not to love, almost costs as much as a Lamy Logo and a Sailor Lecoule) since i had to deal with a bad tier paper I had to use an EF nib in fear that it will bleed and feather badly. to me these were my starter pens and since then I got me a Lamy 2K, a pen that was probably quint-essential for a step up grade but can't afford for a 149 again... I don't think a non graduate student would be worthy of actually wielding a very expensive pen (149) in high school or 1st year college unless that truly came out of his own pocket money or pocket.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Algester

[Arkanabar]

Why is there not a standard, entry-level pen that costs less than $30 USD and is universally usable?

 

I have not tried the TWSBI ECO.

 

There is such a pen. Its name is Platinum Plaisir. I've seen price variance from USD13 or so on Amazon, to 26USD at Origami Ink, one of the World's Great Pen Stores (according to Glenn's Pens). They sell an adapter to use international cartridges as well as converters, and it has decent girth, isn't heavy, and has no real oddities in design or dimensions. (The worst I've heard said is that the cap ring is too ostentatious.) I believe it is a severely underappreciated pen, especially for entry level.

 

I was quite pleased with my Rotring Surf until I snagged the tip of the nib on the inside of the cap. Unfortunately, as with the Waterman Kultur, it has been discontinued.

 

I do not like the Safari, and I recommend people try a Jinhao 599 to see if the section bothers them (unless, of course, they're in driving range of Origami Ink, which has a medium-nib Al-Star permanently attached to a writing pad for people to try out). I am generally content with the Pilot 78G, tho like you I find it rather narrow. I've considered Sailor's HighAce Neo, but it is also rather slim. The same would likely apply to Parker's Vector and Reflex pens. And I would add any pen with a rubberized grip section to the list of those that don't cut it.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Arkanabar

[Sailor Kenshin]

Absolutely agree with linearM...millions of elementary school children learned to write cursive with Esterbrook pens in the '40s and '50s with nary a problem. I think it's a primo starter pen and beats out any modern writing instrument on the market...and they continue to be price friendly to the average consumer.

 

Perhaps, and I have one myself, but they are a bit small and slim, and do not use standard international carts.

 

I think perhaps the Nemosine Singularity would come close to what the OP meant. They cost about $15, come in many colors and nib sizes, and I have four or so. Very comfortable to use for extended periods.

[J85909266]

 

There is such a pen. Its name is Platinum Plaisir. I've seen price variance from USD13 or so on Amazon, to 26USD at Origami Ink, one of the World's Great Pen Stores (according to Glenn's Pens). They sell an adapter to use international cartridges as well as converters, and it has decent girth, isn't heavy, and has no real oddities in design or dimensions. (The worst I've heard said is that the cap ring is too ostentatious.) I believe it is a severely underappreciated pen, especially for entry level.

 

I was quite pleased with my Rotring Surf until I snagged the tip of the nib on the inside of the cap. Unfortunately, as with the Waterman Kultur, it has been discontinued.

 

I do not like the Safari, and I recommend people try a Jinhao 599 to see if the section bothers them (unless, of course, they're in driving range of Origami Ink, which has a medium-nib Al-Star permanently attached to a writing pad for people to try out). I am generally content with the Pilot 78G, tho like you I find it rather narrow. I've considered Sailor's HighAce Neo, but it is also rather slim. The same would likely apply to Parker's Vector and Reflex pens. And I would add any pen with a rubberized grip section to the list of those that don't cut it.

I actually have a Kultur, and it is somewhat close to the sort of idea that I am going for.The Plaisir is also pretty close. I think the reason it is often overlooked is because it has the same nib and feed as the notoriously cheap Preppy. It also has a bit of a cheesy aesthetic that will turn off many.

 

The kind of pen that I am imagining would have the quality and mature looks of something like the Pilot Metropolitan, but obviously with a better designed section and area where the cap meets the barrel. It certainly isn't impossible.

 

And again, this thread is supposed to be fun. It's about trying to imagine the perfect fountain pen to recommend to beginners. Currently, I don't think there is really a pen I could recommend that doesn't have something going on that is going to put people off. Obviously, there is going to be some dissent, but it's for the sake of discussion.

[J85909266]

Perhaps, and I have one myself, but they are a bit small and slim, and do not use standard international carts.

 

I think perhaps the Nemosine Singularity would come close to what the OP meant. They cost about $15, come in many colors and nib sizes, and I have four or so. Very comfortable to use for extended periods.

Indeed, the Singularity is exactly the type of design I am looking for. I have read a lot of complaints about righting quality that have always put me off from buying one.

 

Something similar to the Singularity made by a big name company that could nail down the QC and properly advertise and distribute it would be just the ticket.

[jar]

 

 

Why is there not a standard, entry-level pen that costs less than $30 USD and is universally usable?

 

 

Because there is no universal standard buyer.

 

You may not have noticed it but humans are a multi-purpose tool designed to evolve and adapt.

 

Evolve and adapt!

[sandy101]

I liked the Loom. It has the best nib below $30.

 

An alternative is the Platinum Plasir, which can be fitted with an adaptor to take international standard cartridges. It comes with different nibs and works rather well. Doesn't dry up as quickly as other pens either - and there's no triangular grip.

 

Ohto also have a couple in their range - the Rook which might suit - takes ISC and looks respectable enough.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Indeed, the Singularity is exactly the type of design I am looking for. I have read a lot of complaints about righting quality that have always put me off from buying one.

 

Something similar to the Singularity made by a big name company that could nail down the QC and properly advertise and distribute it would be just the ticket.

Most of them write well enough, if a bit dry. I tweaked one or two to write wetter, for those times I need a garden hose.

[dogpoet]

The kind of pen that I am imagining would have the quality and mature looks of something like the Pilot Metropolitan, but obviously with a better designed section and area where the cap meets the barrel. It certainly isn't impossible.

Waterman Expert II. Or possibly a Phileas (which is a Kultur done up in faux marble plastic rather than transparent neon plastic). The Expert is, of course, pricier, which brings tinta's point to mind.

A Parker Frontier would also be suitable, if it didn't use branded cartridges (which are often more easily obtainable than standard international cartridges - it isn't a Lamy or a Cross - but it seems that's a sticking point for you.)

[J85909266]

 

Because there is no universal standard buyer.

 

You may not have noticed it but humans are a multi-purpose tool designed to evolve and adapt.

 

Evolve and adapt!

This is true, but a fountain pen is not a person. It isn't even a tool with a wide range of potential applications. It just needs to write.

 

 

There is a standard design for a hammer. If you want a decent hammer, you don’t need to choose between one with a molded grip for proper hand placement, one with a sharp, uncomfortable step in the grip, one made for very small hands, and one of lower than ideal quality.

 

 

No, you can get a nice hammer that works flawlessly that is designed to fit the majority of people at a good price. Same with most other tools.

 

 

Now, there are hammers out there with odd handle designs that work best for certain individuals, but they are the exception, not the norm.

 

 

There are plenty of nice fountain pens out there that utilize what I consider standard, comfortable design features that work for most people. There simply isn’t one in the price/quality range of pens like the Metropolitan, Safari and Loom.