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Definite Website For Pelikan Nib Info?


Calabria

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I think I'm going all Dan Brown on my recent Pelikan excursion but is there a Nibologist out there who has compiled a history of Pelikan nibs, colors, hallmarks, tipping, line width etc?

 

I'm just getting very confused between K

(Kugel) nibs and post-98s ball nibs, and the Bock

years, and the introduction of bi-color nibs. 😫

"If you can spend a perfectly useless afternoon in a perfectly useless manner, you have learned how to live."

– Lin Yu-T'ang

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Kugel nibs were specifically designed with a ball type tipping to make them more forgiving. These were available going back to the early days of Pelikan nibs.

 

In the mid-90's Pelikan switched to a generous tipping material which kind of emulates the ball nibs. Nibs produced before the mid-90's have a flatter tipping that has a bit more character/variation and is generally preferred over the later production.

 

Bock produced nibs for Pelikan for a period of time. The exact dates of this are not well outlined. I believe that by 2006, production was back in house at Pelikan. I have seen a range of 1997-2006 as the years quoted during which much of the nib production was outsourced but I can't be definitive about that.

 

The two toned nibs started coming about around 1988/1989 but pens like the m400 continued to carry the monotone nib for a time.

 

There are no definitive references but these are great resources:

http://www.ruettinger-web.de/e-pelikan-federn-100.html

https://www.rothemel.de/en/Pelikan/Nibs/index.html

http://thepelikansperch.com/2014/08/28/pelikan-fountain-pen-nib-sizes/

 

The first edition of Pelikan Schreibgeräte also has some information on nibs

PELIKAN - Too many birds in the flock to count. My pen chest has proven to be a most fertile breeding ground.

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THE PELIKAN'S PERCH - A growing reference site for all things Pelikan

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I don't think that is true

 

"The two toned nibs started coming about around 1988/1989 but pens like the m400 continued to carry the monotone nib for a time."

 

I can always stand to be corrected. I love to learn, especially from a such a knowledgeable source. Here is what I believe which is why I made the statement quoted above.

 

The old-style M600s saw two toned nibs introduced in March of 1988. The M800s were released in March of 1987 and, as far as I know, had two toned nibs. The M700 was transitioned to two toned nibs in March of 1990. Looking at that info, that is why I pegged 88/89 as the likely introduction of the two toned nib. The M400 had monotone nibs from their inception in 1982 until the trim change in 1997 when they too switched over to the two toned nibs. That would indicate that the M400 continued with monotone nibs well into the period that two toned nibs were widely available. And Souveräns aside, the M250 carried monotone gold nibs into at least the early 2000's prior to their discontinuation. That is the info in my head that prompted my statement. Those dates for the M600 and M700 I believe are from the first edition of Schreibgeräte. Which part of the above is incorrect?

Edited by sargetalon

PELIKAN - Too many birds in the flock to count. My pen chest has proven to be a most fertile breeding ground.

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THE PELIKAN'S PERCH - A growing reference site for all things Pelikan

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First of all, thanks for the info and websites. Second of all, this brings up the kind of information I'm missing, that is, a history of nib production since the 1980s. I only collect Pelikans since those years (for biographical reasons), and am confused by some recent purchases in that the 18C monochrome (older) nib has more tipping material than the bichrome (newer) nib. I'll try and attach some photos although it's hard to get the tips right.

 

Sargetalon - the M400 bichrome would have been 14C, right, so the first bichromes would have been 18C - up until whenever. Would the 18C have changed its size in 1998 with the change of the M600 size?

 

I find that the since I'm a writer, not just a collector, the nib is truly the soul of the pen. There are many discussions about colors and editions - it would just be great to have a discussion and reliable source about nib production since 1982.

"If you can spend a perfectly useless afternoon in a perfectly useless manner, you have learned how to live."

– Lin Yu-T'ang

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Sargetalon - the M400 bichrome would have been 14C, right, so the first bichromes would have been 18C - up until whenever. Would the 18C have changed its size in 1998 with the change of the M600 size?

I'm not sure that I follow completely here. The M400 had a monotone nib, usually in 14C from 1982-1997. The first two toned nibs were actually 14C as well. The early run on M600s and M800s had 14C nibs before switching to 18C. The M600 returned to 14C nibs after 1997. Tipping material started getting blobby on all nibs sometime in the mid-90s.

 

There is a lot of confusion out there about certain aspects of Pelikan's nibs. I don't think there is a definitive resource or anyone out there with all of the answers. I am no expert and have only cobbled together various bits from different sources as I've gone along. There are no real rules and a lot of variability when you factor in regional differences such as 12C nibs for the overseas market which makes it all that much harder.

PELIKAN - Too many birds in the flock to count. My pen chest has proven to be a most fertile breeding ground.

fpn_1508261203__fpn_logo_300x150.jpg

THE PELIKAN'S PERCH - A growing reference site for all things Pelikan

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<I find that the since I'm a writer, not just a collector, the nib is truly the soul of the pen. There are many discussions about colors and editions - it would just be great to have a discussion and reliable source about nib production since 1982>

 

You know, I have no wish to put a damper on this (interesting) thread; but sometimes, Calabria, I think we are all of us guilty of being overly anal (ie, overly fussy) about minute details regarding our pens...I know <I> am, sometimes!

 

However, I am in thorough agreement with you regarding the nib of a pen being its soul -- one hundred per cent! You likely saw my pictures elsewhere, a few months ago, of a jade 100 that I bought from a certain gentleman who has already contributed to this very thread -- the pen barrel and nib are original, whilst the cap is a modern one from one of those LEs -- and you know something? I couldn't care less that there is a modern aspect to this particular writing instrument: it is superb; the nib writes and flexes gorgeously and I am totally in love with the pen! So...details, details, details! I suspect that we should just get on with our writing!

 

So, carry on with your search for definitive information re the kugel nibs (Aside: funny thing -- in Johannesburg, a kugel was something entirely different!) but don't let it become an obsession! Ciao, Calabria! ;^)

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Well said Christopher. It's easy to get bogged down in the minutia of the details and overlook the important things like the writing experience.

PELIKAN - Too many birds in the flock to count. My pen chest has proven to be a most fertile breeding ground.

fpn_1508261203__fpn_logo_300x150.jpg

THE PELIKAN'S PERCH - A growing reference site for all things Pelikan

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You know, I have no wish to put a damper on this (interesting) thread; but sometimes, Calabria, I think we are all of us guilty of being overly anal (ie, overly fussy) about minute details regarding our pens...I know <I> am, sometimes!

 

 

Hm. Let me just say that by training, I am a historian, and we don't go about records saying ... well, they're kinda nice, kinda interesting. I like them! Some of them are different.

 

I guess I'm guilty of being in search of lost time, Christopher. But I've never been a fan of nostalgia, so I do try to put the past in some kind of framework.

 

I guess I was hoping to crowdsource a bit of information here - since there is an endless thread of complaints about current Pelikan nibs a bit further down. This may help us identify a particular product line more clearly and search the internet for it in the future.

"If you can spend a perfectly useless afternoon in a perfectly useless manner, you have learned how to live."

– Lin Yu-T'ang

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I don't think that is true

 

"The two toned nibs started coming about around 1988/1989 but pens like the m400 continued to carry the monotone nib for a time."

 

Curious about what is wrong with this as this looks basically correct (unless you want to quibble about 1987 vs "around 1988/1989" or that an example of a two-toned vintage nib has been reported).

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fpn_1444062309__m_600_f.jpg

 

fpn_1444148735__img_3644.jpg

 

fpn_1444062275__m_600_ef.jpg

 

fpn_1444148774__img_3646.jpg

 

Just some pictures ... top to bottom, monochrome 18C F nib ca. pre-1988, bichrome 18C EF nib ca. mid 1990s.

"If you can spend a perfectly useless afternoon in a perfectly useless manner, you have learned how to live."

– Lin Yu-T'ang

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I have a M800 with an old style nib, made in the 97-2000 timeframe.

 

can I drop a highly speculative guess here... In the 90s Pelikan outsourced some nibs to Bock. Perhaps to other firms too. And perhaps some nibs were still made in house. This would explain the discrepancies, having pens of the same period fitted with nibs of different tipping. When later on production was moved back in house, someone decided to go for the uniform kugel tip thing. Was it to make them more forgiving for ballpoint users, easier to produce, only Pelikan can tell.

 

I dont think that someone can compile definitive lists of nibs and periods used without access to the Pelikan records, esp since nibs are so easily exchanged between newer and older pens.

 

And i feel that preserving pluralism in nib choices is important, makes Pelikan pens different. I am not unhappy with modern nibs (though the steel ones saw a magnificent consistency which I would like to see in the gold ones as well) however perhaps Pelikan should consider giving some more choice by producing nibs with different tipping or again O nibs (with a premium of course). The Wusch dir was Feder is a very nice offer, and allows a full custom nib with minimal extra cost, however not all people can travel to Hannover/Peine to do that.

Edited by fplover01
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Yes, 1987 and the introduction of the two toned nib on the M800 is the basis of my overly terse objection.

 

Curious about what is wrong with this as this looks basically correct (unless you want to quibble about 1987 vs "around 1988/1989" or that an example of a two-toned vintage nib has been reported).

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My Kugal nibs, a Geha, an Osmia have a flat/flattish bottom...like most of the nibs that were semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex from that era. Giving you a chance at a remarkable clean line. (other pen companies that made nails, like Lamy, Tropen, and a few others had an American Bump under the nib tip)

 

So you could write regular and get that wonderful stubbish + semi-flex flair. If you wanted to hold it like a pencil....(pre-ball point) you could. Your choise.

 

The modern double kugle/double ball nib...is just a blob on the end, and holding low like a fountain pen instead of up like a ball point does nothing for you...it's still a big fat blob, no clean line.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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BoBo - that's interesting. I almost sent my monochrome 18C F nib to be reground but after a few weeks I noticed that holding the pen at different angles resulted in completely different lines - from fine to medium. I kind of like that effect and apparently it's closer to older nibs than the new version

"If you can spend a perfectly useless afternoon in a perfectly useless manner, you have learned how to live."

– Lin Yu-T'ang

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