My Great Waterman Philias

[Charles Skinner]

I just want to make it known that I really, really love my medium nib Waterman Philias! Really! I have pens that I paid ten or fifteen times more for that do not write was well as my "lowly" Philias!) I bought my Philias "on line" about twelve years ago, for about $15.00, as I remember it, and have used it often. I know that some people judge a pen by its fancy styling or the material from which it is made. There is nothing fancy about the styling of the pen, or about the material used to make it, so what makes it so special? IT IS A REALLY GREAT WRITER! And, isn't that the reason for buying and using a fountain pen?

 

If you too love your Philias, let me know.

 

Also, if you have another very "low dollar pen" that you really, really love, tell me about it.

 

C. S.

[pajaro]

The Phileas is a really great pen. I like the fines. For quite a while I would not consider this pen, because I thought it was too gaudy. After an accidental purchase in a group of pens, I found it to be an exceptional writer. I think three kinds of pens write better: Parker 51, Montblanc Meisterstuck 144 and Pelikan Souveran. They all cost more. The Phileas usually starts, but if it dries it is easier than most C/C pens to get started. There are a lot of pens that cost many times more that are inferior as writers, no matter what the partisans say. I have tried a lot of pens, and many ballyhooed pens suck wind by comparison.

[Charles Skinner]

pajaro --- I too have the three other pens you mentioned, and I agree that they are great pens and good writers, but for some reason, I don't think they are in the same league as my "lowly" Philias! Perhaps the one I happened to buy was, for some reason, the "cream of the crop" in easy, beautiful writing. I have been told that the pen in no longer being made. If it was, I would buy another one just to have a spare! But, but the one I might buy today, may not be a great writer, for some unknown reason. Write on. C. S.

[Oldtimer]

it's one I have always eyed to acquire, but I would like and older" one. I think they made better nibs then. Today is all about looks, yesterday about the nibs.

[migo984]

 

Also, if you have another very "low dollar pen" that you really, really love, tell me about it.

 

C. S.

I have many wonderful pens but have recently fallen back in love with my blue demonstrator Platinum Cool, with a smooth (Japanese) medium nib and perfect ink flow. I use international size cartridges in it. Platinum steel nibs are seriously under-rated. I think I paid £18 for it.

[pajaro]

pajaro --- I too have the three other pens you mentioned, and I agree that they are great pens and good writers, but for some reason, I don't think they are in the same league as my "lowly" Philias! Perhaps the one I happened to buy was, for some reason, the "cream of the crop" in easy, beautiful writing. I have been told that the pen in no longer being made. If it was, I would buy another one just to have a spare! But, but the one I might buy today, may not be a great writer, for some unknown reason. Write on. C. S.

 

The one thing that makes the Parker 51, the MB 144 and the Pelikan M400 better than the Phileas is that every one of the several Phileas pens I have dry out and require some wetting of the nib to get them to start. They always do start then. The other three pens just stay moist, making them less hassle. The Phileas that I replaced a medium nib with an extra fine L'etalon 18K nib also dries out eventually but restarts easily with a drop of water on the nib. The Phileas is becoming a more expensive pen since its discontinuation. Approaching P51 cost. That tells you that the Phileas is a great pen that will remain in demand among those who know of it.

 

Want some other sleepers? Sheaffer school cartridge pens. Sheaffer Cadet pens. Waterman Crusader.

 

There are a whole lot of pens out there. I have tried many, and found them wanting, usually in that they would dry up and be hard to start. Most modern C/C pens are like that. The Montblanc 144 is an exception, but I can't see what MB did right with it. I have had the sections of MB 144 and Phileas apart, and I would have thought the Phileas would have stayed moist longer, but it doesn't. However, the Parker Sonnet also looks like it would stay moist, but it is a dawg. I have one now, a Terra Cotta with a first generation two tone fine nib that stays moist for a few days, but the others and most C/C pens I have dry out overnight, and I have tried some C/C pens people here swear by. I have to say that I have four Carenes, and one meets my expectations, but I use it as a desk pen, nib down in a Sheaffer holder.

.

[pajaro]

it's one I have always eyed to acquire, but I would like and older" one. I think they made better nibs then. Today is all about looks, yesterday about the nibs.

 

You have a point about the looks. The looks are important to me also, and so Esterbrooks, which are good writing pens, don't satisfy me in the looks area. Phileas is an excellent pen. Better than Laureat for sure. I liked the looks of Laureat, but got sick of spending five minutes getting them to start. That's the kind of thing common in modern pens. The Laureat does make a good tamper for my pipe with its flat end.

[migo984]

There are a whole lot of pens out there. I have tried many, and found them wanting, usually in that they would dry up and be hard to start. Most modern C/C pens are like that.

None of my Pilot or Platinum C/C pens ever seem to dry out. The cheap Platinum Cool I referred to in my post above always starts first time, without exception. And the Platinum Slip & Seal cap, where fitted, is extremely effective. I once left a #3776 pen inked and unused for 7 months by mistake and it wrote perfectly first time.

[sidthecat]

Something about these modernish models inspires deep and passionate infatuation.

[pajaro]

Something about these modernish models inspires deep and passionate infatuation.

 

True. I can't seem to get rid of even the ones that don't work conveniently, because they are so beautiful.

[Bookman]

My Phileas has the best balance and feel of any pen I own. I would add that my alternate "low dollar pen" is vintage: Sheaffer's Skripsert cartridge pen from the late 50s/ early 60s. Great nib, lightweight without being too light, solidly built with cheap materials (I kid you not). Both are great all-around writers.

[Thewordsman]

 

The one thing that makes the Parker 51, the MB 144 and the Pelikan M400 better than the Phileas is that every one of the several Phileas pens I have dry out and require some wetting of the nib to get them to start. They always do start then. The other three pens just stay moist, making them less hassle. The Phileas that I replaced a medium nib with an extra fine L'etalon 18K nib also dries out eventually but restarts easily with a drop of water on the nib. The Phileas is becoming a more expensive pen since its discontinuation. Approaching P51 cost. That tells you that the Phileas is a great pen that will remain in demand among those who know of it.

 

Want some other sleepers? Sheaffer school cartridge pens. Sheaffer Cadet pens. Waterman Crusader.

 

There are a whole lot of pens out there. I have tried many, and found them wanting, usually in that they would dry up and be hard to start. Most modern C/C pens are like that. The Montblanc 144 is an exception, but I can't see what MB did right with it. I have had the sections of MB 144 and Phileas apart, and I would have thought the Phileas would have stayed moist longer, but it doesn't. However, the Parker Sonnet also looks like it would stay moist, but it is a dawg. I have one now, a Terra Cotta with a first generation two tone fine nib that stays moist for a few days, but the others and most C/C pens I have dry out overnight, and I have tried some C/C pens people here swear by. I have to say that I have four Carenes, and one meets my expectations, but I use it as a desk pen, nib down in a Sheaffer holder.

.

Pajaro, Sir, could you provide me with the details how you were able to insert the L'Etalon nib into your Phileas? I had read on another forum that it was possible, but I have not been able to successfully align the nib & feeder section correctly! I have a badly mangled L'Etalon nib that my overtly rich college dorm roommate murdered in 1997 while he attempted to realign a minor overlap of the tines, sadly he killed it and threw it way and bought a new pen the next day. Being the Resourceful "working" college man I am, I rescued the murdered Waterman and kept it thinking I would have the money one day to restore it. That pen literally sat in a small box of broken pens and parts I have had since 1997, and a few weeks ago I read on https://goo.gl/0H674Z that it was possible to marry a L'etalon nib into a Phileas, but I have been unsuccessful in gathering any details that would prove it possible! So before I purchase a new nib for this purpose I am using the nib from that 1997 black L'etalon my old roommate murdered!

I have been seriously collecting fountain pens for a little over a year, and it is only because of the large amount of money I was spending each month for ink refill tubes for my Waterman Expert III rollerball pen, after my using my fifth ink refill tube in two weeks, I asked a colleague why my pen was using so much ink. After giving me a convoluted reply, he handed me his Montblanc 163 fountain pen and I was in love! I went home and began looking for a deal on eBay for a Montblanc Meisterstuck 163 and quickly discovered there were far more "fake" and other pens of dubious authenticity than real Montblanc, so I abandoned the Montblanc idea and began looking for something I could afford. I discovered that Waterman also made a fountain pen version of my Expert III and it was only $125, but before I purchased it, a friend had loaned me his blue marbled Phileas, and after a full day of jotting notes and ideas in my creative writing course, I went to the store In North Hollywood where my friend purchased his Phileas and bought my own, naturally with some Clairfontain paper, and two bottles of ink for $65.00 and thus began my adventure into fountain pens!

Shortly after I purchased my Phileas, I discovered the Charleston, but I swiftly flushed and put my Charleston away once I had been introduced to a Sailor 1911. Since that time I have amassed a rather large collection which Include my newest of acquisition of a pre-1991 Montblanc Meisterstuck 149, a Montblanc 32, two Phileas's and another 8 vintage fountain pens along with a new Twsbi Eco White demonstrator. My favorite pen in my entire collection is a 1937 Parker Deluxe Challenger! This 78-year-old slice of fountain pen history is the epitome of both American engineering and art deco style that has been often imitated but in my opinion never fully duplicated in terms of reliability, and most of all, quality! I have owned a number of pens that were brand new and flawed right out of the box, but my 78-year-old Parker, which has seen some real use still writes crisp, and clean, laying down beautiful lines, and paired with Waterman Absolute brown ink is only surpassed in smoothness by my Montblanc Meisterstuck 149, or possibly my Sailor 1911 Realo!

Thank you in advance any information you might be able to offer!

Edited December 10, 2015 by Thewordsman

[openionated]

I have a Waterman Kultur, the cheaper demonstrator version of the Phileas. It has quickly become my favorite pen.

[Left FPN]

Thewordsman: The Etalon nib fits directly onto the Phileas feed. It does not have the prongs as found on the Phili nib but it will sit in precisely the same position. Ensure that when you install the nib/feed assembly back into the grip you align them correctly with the internal profile. They only fit in one, rotational, position.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2015 by Force

[pajaro]

 

Pajaro, Sir, could you provide me with the details how you were able to insert the L'Etalon nib into your Phileas? I had read on another forum that it was possible, but I have not been able to successfully align the nib & feeder section correctly! I have a badly mangled L'Etalon nib that my overtly rich college dorm roommate murdered in 1997 while he attempted to realign a minor overlap of the tines, sadly he killed it and threw it way and bought a new pen the next day. Being the Resourceful "working" college man I am, I rescued the murdered Waterman and kept it thinking I would have the money one day to restore it. That pen literally sat in a small box of broken pens and parts I have had since 1997, and a few weeks ago I read on https://goo.gl/0H674Z that it was possible to marry a L'etalon nib into a Phileas, but I have been unsuccessful in gathering any details that would prove it possible! So before I purchase a new nib for this purpose I am using the nib from that 1997 black L'etalon my old roommate murdered!

I have been seriously collecting fountain pens for a little over a year, and it is only because of the large amount of money I was spending each month for ink refill tubes for my Waterman Expert III rollerball pen, after my using my fifth ink refill tube in two weeks, I asked a colleague why my pen was using so much ink. After giving me a convoluted reply, he handed me his Montblanc 163 fountain pen and I was in love! I went home and began looking for a deal on eBay for a Montblanc Meisterstuck 163 and quickly discovered there were far more "fake" and other pens of dubious authenticity than real Montblanc, so I abandoned the Montblanc idea and began looking for something I could afford. I discovered that Waterman also made a fountain pen version of my Expert III and it was only $125, but before I purchased it, a friend had loaned me his blue marbled Phileas, and after a full day of jotting notes and ideas in my creative writing course, I went to the store In North Hollywood where my friend purchased his Phileas and bought my own, naturally with some Clairfontain paper, and two bottles of ink for $65.00 and thus began my adventure into fountain pens!

Shortly after I purchased my Phileas, I discovered the Charleston, but I swiftly flushed and put my Charleston away once I had been introduced to a Sailor 1911. Since that time I have amassed a rather large collection which Include my newest of acquisition of a pre-1991 Montblanc Meisterstuck 149, a Montblanc 32, two Phileas's and another 8 vintage fountain pens along with a new Twsbi Eco White demonstrator. My favorite pen in my entire collection is a 1937 Parker Deluxe Challenger! This 78-year-old slice of fountain pen history is the epitome of both American engineering and art deco style that has been often imitated but in my opinion never fully duplicated in terms of reliability, and most of all, quality! I have owned a number of pens that were brand new and flawed right out of the box, but my 78-year-old Parker, which has seen some real use still writes crisp, and clean, laying down beautiful lines, and paired with Waterman Absolute brown ink is only surpassed in smoothness by my Montblanc Meisterstuck 149, or possibly my Sailor 1911 Realo!

Thank you in advance any information you might be able to offer!

 

 

Ah, you have a number of good pens there. When buying Montblanc in a secondhand market you have to know what genuine pens look like. Fortunately for me I bought most of mine in the 1980s and 1990s new at more sane prices than today, and so I had examples of genuine ones. They are good.

 

When I changed out the Phileas nib for the L'etalon 18K extra fine nib, I first pulled the Phileas nib and feed out of the section. They are friction fit. I used a rubbery circular mat like you would use to twist off a difficult jar cap to get a purchase on the nib and feed.

 

The L'etalon nib (obtained for about $60 from Dutchpen in the classifieds) fit right on the Phileas feed. I then inserted them into the Phileas section. As Force says the Phileas feed is keyed into the section, but I can't remember exactly how (Oldtimer's). Typically with pens like the Phileas and like the Montblanc 144, there is a recess in the section into which a raised area at the rear of the feed goes. Semi-circular I think. That's all there is to it. That and the cost of the L'etalon nib. The L'etalon nib is more expensive than the Phileas nib, so it gets better finishing at the factory no doubt. Phileas nibs are a bright spot of the pens, but the L'etalon nib makes a great pen a bit better.

[pajaro]

I was tempted to take the L'etalon nib out to check on the above details, but remembered the old maxim that if it works don't fix it.

[amk]

I have a lot of love for my Kulturs. Still haven't found a Phileas in the wild, but have about fifteen Kulturs and love them to bits. Lots of room for a completist collector - there are the ones with little metallic bits in (Reflectis, if memory serves), the rubbery feel ones (yuk), the transparent ones, some with marbled exteriors like the Phileas, some in neon.

 

Alas, they don't turn up at French village sales as often as they used to. I suspect too many French schoolchildren are now using ballpoints. (And looking at the stationery shelves in our local supermarket, there's no doubt who is winning the pen battle in France - Pilot!)

[Thewordsman]

 

Ah, you have a number of good pens there. When buying Montblanc in a secondhand market you have to know what genuine pens look like. Fortunately for me I bought most of mine in the 1980s and 1990s new at more sane prices than today, and so I had examples of genuine ones. They are good.

 

When I changed out the Phileas nib for the L'etalon 18K extra fine nib, I first pulled the Phileas nib and feed out of the section. They are friction fit. I used a rubbery circular mat like you would use to twist off a difficult jar cap to get a purchase on the nib and feed.

 

The L'etalon nib (obtained for about $60 from Dutchpen in the classifieds) fit right on the Phileas feed. I then inserted them into the Phileas section. As Force says the Phileas feed is keyed into the section, but I can't remember exactly how (Oldtimer's). Typically with pens like the Phileas and like the Montblanc 144, there is a recess in the section into which a raised area at the rear of the feed goes. Semi-circular I think. That's all there is to it. That and the cost of the L'etalon nib. The L'etalon nib is more expensive than the Phileas nib, so it gets better finishing at the factory no doubt. Phileas nibs are a bright spot of the pens, but the L'etalon nib makes a great pen a bit better.

Thank you for the information, It seems my entire issue was re-inserting the nib back in the right place. I found that there is a very slight oval in the Phileas end section opening and the nib needs to go back into the exact same position or you will have ink flow issues, so I took one of my working Phileas's and made a small line using an aluminum looking marker I have and after marking it where the "F" on my fine Phileas nib centers on the end section I then removed it and placed the damaged L'etalon nib on the feeder and re-inserted it... the lines from the damaged nib were horrendous, but I had smooth ink flow, so now I am hunting for either a fine or extra fine L'etalon nib!

 

As for Montblanc identification, I have a friend in Detroit that owns a pawnshop and he has a lot of knowledge, especially about non-piston filler Montblanc's because as he says they are the most counterfeited type. I have 2 fake Montblanc's my friend gave me and they are so badly made that I feel very sad for anyone who would have been taken by the scum who try to pass them off. I also saw a Youtube vid by SbreBrown who did a session of the basics in spotting fakes. I have a fake Montblanc 163 that has a "real" clip on it with a real serial number, and I got that one at a yard sale from an old woman who told me it was fake, but for $10 it was worth it. Sadly she told me her son got scammed out of $75 for it. You can literally tell by feeling the fake resin if you have ever held a real Montblanc, I can, but sadly my friend who owns the pawnshop says they are some really good fakes out there are are very hard to distinguish from a real pen.

 

Anyway, thank you again for the valuable info on the L'etalon nib! As soon as I have found a nice replacement nib I will post some pictures!