Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies






Photo

Jackdaw With Partial Second Imprint

jackdaw

12 replies to this topic

#1 Greenie

Greenie

    Collectors Item

  • FPN Mabie Todd Group Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,335 posts
  • Location:Orange County, CA
  • Flag:

Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:12

I just received this Jackdaw pen today. Interesting orange/pink color with black almost birds-eye pattern and grayish greenish chunks. Nickel plated lever and clip. No clip logo. "Jackdaw" on the feed and on the nib.  It has a strong typical Jackdaw imprint. But there is another imprint as well. I tried my best to show the imprint with the strange "ghost" imprint underneath, including a pic with some added blue highlighting of what I think I am reading. Any ideas what this other imprint might be? It almost looks like THE "NATAL" PEN,  SHUTER_________ER

 

fpn_1441936800__jackdaw__00006.jpg

fpn_1441936814__jackdaw__00008.jpg

fpn_1441936820__jackdaw__00009.jpg

fpn_1441936728__jackdaw__00001.jpgfpn_1441936793__jackdaw__00005.jpgfpn_1441936748__jackdaw__00003.jpgfpn_1441936787__jackdaw__00004.jpg

 

fpn_1441936826__imprint_with_highlight.j

 

 



Sponsored Content

#2 Cob

Cob

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,749 posts
  • Location:Berkshire, England
  • Flag:

Posted 11 September 2015 - 08:08

What a strange - home-made - engraving.  I hoped for a second or two that it might have read Neville Shute Norway, but it seems not. And Shute was an engineer as well as a best-selling novelist, so I doubt that he would have over-written the factory imprint!

 

Turning to the original imprint, you will know that Ana and I have agreed here that we should have liked to have been flies on the wall of the imprint section at Mabie Todd, where the operative was clearly asleep omitting to stamp so many pens.  Perhaps such errors occurred becasue he woke up at the wrong time?

 

Here's another example of a MT stamping error - a 1060 I sold a while ago:

 

fpn_1441958550__3.jpg

 

Note the "in with "ND beneath over the Swan, obviously part of a phantom " Made in England"

Cob


Edited by Cob, 11 September 2015 - 08:10.

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#3 pen2paper

pen2paper

    arty o the irst art

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,911 posts

Posted 11 September 2015 - 14:42

History Detective in action! *

 

Wondering.. are there photos of the US and UK manufacturing shop interiors?

(we did once see a photo of the early Onoto, wait - senior moment, I think it was Le Boeuf? machine shop interior photo shared by one who stated he was their last shop apprentice). I can See that photo, (but cannot find it), he was the youngest fellow, standing to the right. He didn't get much response, and disappeared - pen history experts likely busy or simply missed the post. To have personal access to an apprentice of high-end ceased production was pure treasure trove of lost pen history. (why I look for such inquiries since then).

 

Cob has noted stamping errors. Were these errors, omissions, or limitations of the equipment? In this case, could the overstamp be a later non-Swan addition? Do the letter imprints appear to be Swan?

 

*  finding, reconnecting missing history is such great fun! This was an exciting find.

editing to add: what's your thoughts on whether this was a commissioned business pen? If it were a failed imprint experiment, would they select an actual company on another continent? But as a poorly executed example, would they ship this to S&S in SA? Finally, where was this pen found?


Edited by pen2paper, 11 September 2015 - 14:50.


emoticon-animal-007.gif~Hi! fountain pen enthusiast here~


#4 Greenie

Greenie

    Collectors Item

  • FPN Mabie Todd Group Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,335 posts
  • Location:Orange County, CA
  • Flag:

Posted 11 September 2015 - 15:04

I do not think that the font is the same as the Mabie Todd font.

 

The layout is the same

Original:  

 

"JACKDAW" SELF FILLING PEN 

 

other imprint

 

THE "NATAL" PEN

 

Both all caps, with a larger font for the name, in quotes

 

Shuter and (or &) Shooter could totally fit

 

With the font size and quotes, I am fairly certain that "the natal pen" is correct, but the L and closing quotes are not really seen. 

The name of a stationer on the second line would be fairly common with older hard rubber pens that were otherwise left unbranded for the store to add their own name.

 

The funny thing is to strike over the original like this rather than to add to the other side.



#5 Greenie

Greenie

    Collectors Item

  • FPN Mabie Todd Group Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,335 posts
  • Location:Orange County, CA
  • Flag:

Posted 12 September 2015 - 01:45

 

 

It would be interesting to know the most recent provenance of this pen. Perhaps Greenie can shed some light on this?

 

 

Well...ebay. The entire description: 

THIS ONE IS A  - M. T & CO JACKDAW 

 

Per the listing, it came from:  

fochabers, Moray, United Kingdom

 

I agree with your astute deduction. Early stationers often sold pens under their own names or with their own names added, and the "Shuter" of Shuter and Shooter was the stationer per Wikipedia. And there are "maybe" some faint bottoms of "O"s in the right place for "SHOOTER".  But there is still a lot of mystery with this one!  Hopefully someone at the modern company has an interest in history and mysteries and will take an interest in this.



#6 Greenie

Greenie

    Collectors Item

  • FPN Mabie Todd Group Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,335 posts
  • Location:Orange County, CA
  • Flag:

Posted 12 September 2015 - 02:15

YOU. GET. 100% CREDIT !  All you, my friend!  The seller only said THIS ONE IS A  - M. T & CO JACKDAW 

 

No other info available except my photos, and your brain, and the internet.  And my looking at the pen and seeing that your deduced company name could surely fit, and might actually make some sense!

 

I clipped and pasted parts of my enhanced image over the first draft enhanced image to show spacing. So excuse the UU instead of OO in Shooter, since it was for spacing purposes. I see no trace of the ampersand. However, in the first line, there is almost no spacing between THE"NATAL with the quotation marks.

 

fpn_1442023988__shuter_and_shuuter.jpg



#7 chunya

chunya

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,584 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 12 September 2015 - 06:54

History Detective in action! *

 

Wondering.. are there photos of the US and UK manufacturing shop interiors?

(we did once see a photo of the early Onoto, wait - senior moment, I think it was Le Boeuf? machine shop interior photo shared by one who stated he was their last shop apprentice). I can See that photo, (but cannot find it), he was the youngest fellow, standing to the right. He didn't get much response, and disappeared - pen history experts likely busy or simply missed the post. To have personal access to an apprentice of high-end ceased production was pure treasure trove of lost pen history. (why I look for such inquiries since then).

 

Cob has noted stamping errors. Were these errors, omissions, or limitations of the equipment? In this case, could the overstamp be a later non-Swan addition? Do the letter imprints appear to be Swan?

 

*  finding, reconnecting missing history is such great fun! This was an exciting find.

editing to add: what's your thoughts on whether this was a commissioned business pen? If it were a failed imprint experiment, would they select an actual company on another continent? But as a poorly executed example, would they ship this to S&S in SA? Finally, where was this pen found?

Hi pen2paper,

 

Is this the one you were thinking of? Iandonnachie halfway down onwards ..... If so then not a sprobbaly 60 years ago.very nearly

 

http://www.fountainp...noto-penmaster/

 

 

and well found, Empty of Clouds!  :thumbup:


Edited by chunya, 12 September 2015 - 06:57.


#8 MalcolmH

MalcolmH

    Donor Pen

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,340 posts
  • Location:England
  • Flag:

Posted 12 September 2015 - 07:26

Excellent thread. Great bit of ongoing research.   :thumbup:



#9 MarcShiman

MarcShiman

    Inspiring Discovery

  • FPN Mabie Todd Group Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 933 posts
  • Location:United States

Posted 12 September 2015 - 09:39

Mabie Todd Co Ltd. advertising always listed a Capetown branch, so its entirely possible there was local branding.

 

One other thought - "Natal" is Portuguese for "Christmas".

 

Here's a "Natal" pen made in China now for the Portuguese Market

 

natal_pen.jpg


Edited by MarcShiman, 12 September 2015 - 09:48.


#10 MarcShiman

MarcShiman

    Inspiring Discovery

  • FPN Mabie Todd Group Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 933 posts
  • Location:United States

Posted 12 September 2015 - 09:41

http://www.ebay.com....=item2a57df7b22



#11 pen2paper

pen2paper

    arty o the irst art

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,911 posts

Posted 12 September 2015 - 12:38

Hi pen2paper,

 

Is this the one you were thinking of? Iandonnachie halfway down onwards ..... If so then not a sprobbaly 60 years ago.very nearly

 

http://www.fountainp...noto-penmaster/

 

 

and well found, Empty of Clouds!  :thumbup:

dashing out the door to work, so just a cursory glance. The eye-witness details included appear to be what I read, but I don't see the photo he shared of his youthful self in the machine shop. Thanks chunya! Very grateful. Frustrating unable to find this, as it's a example of documenting eye witness experiences before they pass off the scene. After which we can only read the objects, advertisements, and legal documents to piece the disconnected puzzle.



emoticon-animal-007.gif~Hi! fountain pen enthusiast here~


#12 Greenie

Greenie

    Collectors Item

  • FPN Mabie Todd Group Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,335 posts
  • Location:Orange County, CA
  • Flag:

Posted 12 September 2015 - 17:28

Mabie Todd Co Ltd. advertising always listed a Capetown branch, so its entirely possible there was local branding.

 

One other thought - "Natal" is Portuguese for "Christmas".

 

Here's a "Natal" pen made in China now for the Portuguese Market

 

natal_pen.jpg

;) I am off to trade in my NATAL pen for one of these beauties! They will take a place on honor with the Hero and Jinhao pens.

 

More seriously, I was not aware of the South Africa connection to Mabie Todd. So the Shuter and Shooter connection makes more sense now.



#13 MarcShiman

MarcShiman

    Inspiring Discovery

  • FPN Mabie Todd Group Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 933 posts
  • Location:United States

Posted 12 September 2015 - 18:44

fpn_1442083414__screenshot_2015-09-12_at





Reply to this topic



  



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: jackdaw



Sponsored Content




|