The Change (For The Worse) In Pelikan Nibs

[markh]

Below is a comment posted on Massdrop, and my response. My conversation with Mike Masayuma at the S.F. Pen Show confirmed what I had already seen in my recent purchases - Pelikan nibs have changed, and not for the better.

 

At the SF Pen Show I looked at the new M805 Anthracite (Stressman) pen, with an XF nib.

By eye, I would judge it to be a medium, and hardly an XF. The problem is that the nib is completely plated so regrinding it thinner would expose the gold and be visible.

 

Would be interested in the opinion of others. Maybe we need to all go to Germany and start a mass demonstration

 

 

ORIGINAL:

" In that particular complaint, my purchase was for an F nib. The product came with a nib marked F but in reality was writing like a B nib, which, for all intents and purposes, is clearly a manufacturing defect."

=======

MY COMMENT:

Problems like this are now well known with Pelikan pens. About 5 or so years ago, the company was purchased. I think the new owners are Malaysian, or Indian. A little after that, nibs changed. I believe they are no longer made by Pelikan, but instead sourced from one of the major German nib makers (Bock, or Jowo)

With this, the design of the nibs were changed. Since all of my old Pelikans were fine or X-fine, they had a very consistent tipping - two cylinders (or discs) instead of a round pellet. The fines were fine, and the X-fine were very fine indeed.

Since the change, the nibs are now made with round pellets. While it's certainly possible to make a fine or X-fine nib this way, Pelikan doesn't. I don't know why. Three recent Pelikans, ordered with X-fine nibs, came with large round tips that I would describe as medium.

In two cases, I reground them to be an X-fine, which certainly most people can't do.

For the third X-fine I had Mike Masuyama (at the S.F. Pen Show) regrind it to a medium left oblique - there was more than enough tipping material to do this, which would seem impossible for an XF nib.

Alas, I don't see this changing any time soon. In my opinion, XF nibs are no longer available from the factory. If you want a very fine nib, it will take some aftermarket work.

It's always sad when any company with a great deal of specialized and valuable expertise throws that skill away to adopt cheaper methods.

Progress, I guess.....

 

 

Edited September 4, 2015 by markh

[sargetalon]

I agree with your observations. The nibs of today are a sad imitation of those of the past. I believe today's nibs are a reaction to the market and geared toward casual users and not enthusiast. Anecdotally, I feel the gold nibs are plagued more by this than the stainless steel. I don't see it changing anytime soon unfortunately. The nicest thing about today's nibs is that they do lend themselves beautifully to customization. Of course, that is an added expense to an already expensive pen to often only have it do what it is advertised as. Thankfully, there is no shortage of amazing vintage Pelikan nibs.

[fplover01]

The truth is that modern nibs have much more tipping material than older ones. they put a fatter or in my opinion less accurate line down to the paper than older nibs.

 

However the rest of the post is misleading.

 

The Malaysian owners of Pelikan have been on board ever since 1995-1996. So not "5 years ago" but 20 years ago... I have M800s of 89-90 and 97-2003, both nibs look the same and put the same line down to the paper. I also have modern 2014-2015 M800s where the nib has clearly more tipping material.

 

And Pelikan has actually shifted all nib production back in house in recent years, while in the past some nibs were produced by Bock. I have recently read a couple of reports in a German forum from people who took the factory tour and were there for a custom S nib (Wunsch dir was Feder). All of them consistently reported that not only they saw that nib production takes place in house but that actually most of the parts used in the pen are produced on site. "100% Made in Germany" and by Pelikan as one wrote.

 

I do not have experience with Extra fine nibs and cannot say if in the past they were better or not. Thin nibs are not my thing. What I can say about the M nibs I have, is that the newest ones have more tipping and depending on ink, they may produce a line that is not so accurate. For the Lamy Blue and Black inks that I use, they work with no problems. For Pelikan Blue Black I prefer older nibs.

 

I think that an F nib writing like a B is an exagerration. Perhaps if someone is used to japanese pens or very dry pens,might find the line fatter. Like a medium perhaps yes. I recently put down to test two M m800 nibs, one 97 and one 2014 with Lamy Black ink. the 2014 nib produces a slightly fatter line than the 97, still it is nowhere near a B.

 

I do not think that the change in putting more tipping material has to do with quality control. I believe it is more of a way to adjust the pen to people used to writing with ballpoints and who are likely to exert more pressure on the tip. Of course someone who is a fountain pen enthousiast might not like that very much.

Edited September 4, 2015 by fplover01

[Kugelschreiber]

The F nib on my Stresemann, surprisingly, didn't write like a medium. It was quite fine by my experience with modern Pelikan gold nibs.

 

Anecdotally, I feel the gold nibs are plagued more by this than the stainless steel.

 

Why do you think this is so?

[zuhandensein]

This has been a recurrent topic in this forums, and I always think that it has been a really bad move by Pelikan. I am not sure that people using ballpoints are going to buy many M800s and say "this is great!". Contrarily, many people that use fountain pens and that have certain knowledge about them are constantly saying "this is not the stuff we were used to"...

[Biber]

The nibs of today are a sad imitation of those of the past.

 

That, sir, is an understatement of epic proportions.

[Kugelschreiber]

I always think that it has been a really bad move by Pelikan. I am not sure that people using ballpoints are going to buy many M800s and say "this is great!".

 

Right. And why try to make a fp writing experience closer to that of a bp? Writing with a fountain pen isn't rocket science; bp users can learn and grow use to the differences between bps and fps.

[markh]

The truth is that modern nibs have much more tipping material than older ones. they put a fatter or in my opinion less accurate line down to the paper than older nibs.

 

However the rest of the post is misleading.

 

The Malaysian owners of Pelikan have been on board ever since 1995-1996. So not "5 years ago" but 20 years ago... I have M800s of 89-90 and 97-2003, both nibs look the same and put the same line down to the paper. I also have modern 2014-2015 M800s where the nib has clearly more tipping material.

 

And Pelikan has actually shifted all nib production back in house in recent years, while in the past some nibs were produced by Bock. I have recently read a couple of reports in a German forum from people who took the factory tour and were there for a custom S nib (Wunsch dir was Feder). All of them consistently reported that not only they saw that nib production takes place in house but that actually most of the parts used in the pen are produced on site. "100% Made in Germany" and by Pelikan as one wrote.

 

I do not have experience with Extra fine nibs and cannot say if in the past they were better or not. Thin nibs are not my thing. What I can say about the M nibs I have, is that the newest ones have more tipping and depending on ink, they may produce a line that is not so accurate. For the Lamy Blue and Black inks that I use, they work with no problems. For Pelikan Blue Black I prefer older nibs.

 

I think that an F nib writing like a B is an exagerration. Perhaps if someone is used to japanese pens or very dry pens,might find the line fatter. Like a medium perhaps yes. I recently put down to test two M m800 nibs, one 97 and one 2014 with Lamy Black ink. the 2014 nib produces a slightly fatter line than the 97, still it is nowhere near a B.

 

I do not think that the change in putting more tipping material has to do with quality control. I believe it is more of a way to adjust the pen to people used to writing with ballpoints and who are likely to exert more pressure on the tip. Of course someone who is a fountain pen enthousiast might not like that very much.

 

Well, you seem in command of the financial facts. My point is that for fine or x-fine nibs, a decision was made to make them quite different from how they looked and performed 10 or more years ago. At one time, the tipping had a unique shape that I only saw on Pelikan nibs. Now they look like all the other nibs.

 

I presume the change was intentional. Since I only use fine or x-fine, the difference is quite extreme. As I mentioned, I have recently (over the last year) purchased 3 x-fine nibs, and would describe them all of them as medium. It's not hard to believe that someone could buy a medium an think of it as a broad.

 

It may be the change was to better fit the expectations of customers, for lower cost, for better quality control, or something else. For me the new nibs are not usable without an aftermarket change.

 

One of the things that made Pelikan unique is gone.

 

 

.

[fplover01]

As said, I cannot comment on the substance of your post, I have no experience with thin nibs whatsoever and I do not like speaking about things I do not know about. I have had various M nibs steel and gold, 150, 200, 205, 400, 600, 800 and I told how mine perform. M nibs are definetely usable with no aftermarket tuning on my end, I had only one that had problems in 10 years.

 

However you attribute clearly the change of the nibs to untrue facts.. An ownership change that happened 20 years ago and some outsourcing which in fact has ceased to happen.... That is what is misleading in your post.

 

i too think the change was intentional. I put in my own theory why, which is just that a theory... Noone can know why Pelikan changed the tipping, only an insider can tell that. However change of ownership and outsourcing are not the cause. All of us have what is important to us... For example I was not happy when Pelikan did the P200, because Pelikan is a piston filler in my mind, but there are people who like it. You like xf fine that way, but perhaps Pelikan has seen that the majority wants something else. My point is, the uniqueness of Pelikan is not gone forever because one element changed. If more customers want the old nibs back, they might as well return.

 

PS. i think the old M nib performed better with pelikan blue black than the new ones! So as not to think I dont complain as well!

Edited September 4, 2015 by fplover01

[Biber]

I think that over the years, as pen makers have increasingly out-sourced their nibs, the concern has gotten away from the nibs actually writing as marked (trusting the nib manufacturers on that point) and settled purely on smoothness. Ensuring a smooth writing nib is much easier and cheaper from their stand point than actually assuring that it writes the correct width, which would require more specialized attention. And from general reports of inability to write out of the box, even from the big guns, it's easy to believe it has become a matter of plug in the nib and send the pen out the door.

 

A smooth writing nib is all fine and dandy, but if my XF writes as wide as a sharpy, what's the sense. It would seem that "no you can't have an XF nib. We know better what you want and you'll settle for a medium" rules the day with modern pens, which is why I much prefer vintage (at least 30+ years) pens. I've found that their nibs have infinitely more character (line variation) than modern ball-tipped nibs. And I find that I don't even mind wider nibs (within reason) because of their character. If I have to though, I'll take a modern Japanese pen.

[sargetalon]

Why do you think this is so?

I have no idea but the observation has held up amongst my collection. When I want a fine nib, I'm usually reaching for my stainless steel nibs. Perhaps the tipping is applied/finished differently but I have no insight to say for sure.

[Lam1]

My experience is similar to Sargetalon's: the steel nibs tend to put down a finer line. There are two exceptions, the two M80x EF that I have are really fine and write much like my Pilot 823 F, and I think the Pelikans have more character.

 

I don't have any vintage nibs yet (the first one is in the mail ), but I do have quite a few from the 80-90's that I love. I agree that the new nibs are a bit broader, but the only ones that IMO lack character are the F ones. Maybe I was lucky, but the two modern gold M nibs I have are somewhat stubish and even show a subtle line variation: the shape is similar to the M nibs from the 80/90s, if a little broader (this, however, does not apply to my steel M nibs, which show no line variation). On the other hand, the most boring nib I have is a Pilot M which is just a huge ball of tipping material.

 

Personally, I don't really mind the nibs being a little broader than they used to be; in fact, I started with EF nibs and I am slowly migrating towards the broader ones. However, my complaint is that the nibs now are stiffer than they used to be.

[daenghafez]

From the conversation that I had with one Pelikan Engineer from Germany at the previous year hub on the complaint of current stiff ballpoint nib, he informed that it was due to the adjustment made on certain material used to the nib due to the strict requirement of the law. He agreed that past nibs were much loved and complaint free as the past law has no restriction to the material used. I did not dwell further after that.

[Matlock]

I think the point (no pun intended) that has been missed is that this factor is not confined to Pelikan but to nearly all FP manufacturers. Also, whatever we think, FPs are a very small market compared with ballpoints. That's life, sadly.

The one good thing is that Pelikan nibs are consistently more competent for daily use even if they are not the nibs of old.

I know that competent equals boring for most dedicated FP users but, at least, the nibs can be worked on. All is not lost.

[Calabria]

From the conversation that I had with one Pelikan Engineer from Germany at the previous year hub on the complaint of current stiff ballpoint nib, he informed that it was due to the adjustment made on certain material used to the nib due to the strict requirement of the law. He agreed that past nibs were much loved and complaint free as the past law has no restriction to the material used. I did not dwell further after that.

This is the strangest response I've come across! I know that Germans have laws governing everything from Beer making to trash recycling, but I find it VERY hard to believe that there is a law concerning the tips of fountain pen nibs. Maybe he was referring to bringing back nib production to the factory - maybe you can't state that a product is made by a certain brand if the main component is made by another company.

 

Anyway, I find the "ballpoint user" explanation lame because most ballpoint and roller pens today write much finer than they did in the past. In fact, my current taste for finer nibs has a lot to do with mechanical pencils and Japanese roller balls.

 

Considering that this is a major topic among fp users (can you imagine buying a 5-series BMW and getting it with a Volkswagen Golf motor "because more people drive a Golf"?) - Pelikan should be prepared to answer this question at their "hubs." My feeling is that it has to do with cost.

 

I have what is probably an early 90s pre-outsourced nib, and although it has the tipping of later in-house nibs, it actually has been ground down on the sides to make a nice point. I think they dropped that step in the process to save cost.

 

I do love Pelikan, but think twice before buying one now - I have to love it enough to add on the cost and months of waiting time to have it reground. Anyway, it saves me money as well as Pelikan, so we all win in the end, right?

[Calabria]

PS There are still some good EF nib makers in Europe ... Lamy and Aurora come to mind ... True, they have a limited product line and the nibs are nails, but still ....

[zuhandensein]

From the conversation that I had with one Pelikan Engineer from Germany at the previous year hub on the complaint of current stiff ballpoint nib, he informed that it was due to the adjustment made on certain material used to the nib due to the strict requirement of the law. He agreed that past nibs were much loved and complaint free as the past law has no restriction to the material used. I did not dwell further after that.

 

This is the strangest response I've come across! I know that Germans have laws governing everything from Beer making to trash recycling, but I find it VERY hard to believe that there is a law concerning the tips of fountain pen nibs. Maybe he was referring to bringing back nib production to the factory - maybe you can't state that a product is made by a certain brand if the main component is made by another company.

 

Maybe it's a law concerning toxic materials. They might also have a "gold purity" law similar to the one they have for beer production... Anyway... I am still very surprised with that information.

[pkoko]

I love Pelikans as they are a fine writing instrument. But if I want a EF or UEF; I am buying something from Japan.

Edited September 5, 2015 by pkoko

[Calabria]

I'm amazed btw - many companies would kill to have a free focus group such as this, but it seems to me that rather than listen to their customers many manufacturers just keep doing what THEY think is right - Sailor took ages to react to calls for a piston filler, for example, and many are still convinced that the Realo is still only a fixed converter.

[Pelikanyo]

Just a general statement...

Pelikan nibs have always put down a line one size bigger, and wetter than most.

Every Pelikan nib I've written with has it's own characteristics...the joy of using a fountain pen.

Sorry, but that's why I like Pelikan. Are we loosing sight of the joys in pursuit of perfection?

Not all pens/brands will do what you want them to.

 

That said, someone should be better at final checking ANY BRAND of nib. Some come out of the box that look so bad, I won't even dip the thing. After decades of collecting I've learned to walk into my dealer and write with everything I purchase. If you have established a good relationship with that dealer, he/she will hand you two or three to try and you go home with a pen of your liking.

 

Be well,

Pelikanyo Paul