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Mabie Todd Dip Pens

mabie todd dip pens

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#41 Greenie

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 21:47

Goudy,

 

I love seeing these pens. Great pictures!  

 

Thank you for sharing the pre-fountain pens on FPN.



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#42 Goudy

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 05:23

Thanks, Greenie and EoC. I'm down to the odds and ends of my collection now, so if anyone else has some MT dip pens to show, I'd love to see them.

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#43 drippingpen

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 18:58

Wanted to share a picture of my Mabie Todd pens.  Top box actually holds a MT #1 (tiny) dip pen with pearl handle.  In the middle is another pearl handle with a MT 313 #3 flex nib.  Bottom is a Mabie projecting pen/pencil combination (late 1800's) with a gold c.h. Hunt 25 World gold round tip nib. It has Goodyear and the Mabie patent mark.  The collar moves back and forth to hide or use the dip pen, with a pencil that projects when the back portion of pen is twisted.  

 

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#44 Goudy

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 19:08

Beautiful - thanks. 313 was the designation for "extra-fine", and they seem to be a lot rarer than the standard MT nibs.


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#45 Goudy

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 13:04

An Edward Todd No.10 in a Mabie Todd No.7 holder. The holder is gold-filled with a repoussé pattern and an 1877 patent date. The shaft is ivory (possibly bone). The inner ring that grasps the nib had either broken off or descended into the holder, so I replaced this with a modern steel ferrule.

 

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The nib, though marked 10, is about the size of a typical No.5 nib of the period. I have an Edward Todd No.5 which is slightly larger.

 

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I don't know what the A on the nib designates. Compared to the Edward Todd No.10 C that I showed earlier (post 7), this one is finer and firmer, with only slight flex:

 

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Both No.10s:

 

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#46 milkb0at

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 22:25

Beautiful pens.



#47 Goudy

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Posted 02 January 2016 - 12:00

An Edward Todd No.2 in a BCHR and gold-filled retractable holder (unbranded):

 

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This nib is marked "P" above the maker's name. It has a patent date of 1887 on the reverse. I don't think I've seen any Mabie Todd nibs with a date imprint, though it was standard practice with Foley Bank Pens, and occasionally on other makers' nibs (e.g. Aikin Lambert, see post 47 above).

 

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The holder appears to be the same design as drippingpen's holder in post 52. You can retract the nib by pulling back on the sliding ring, then twist the rear half of the holder clockwise to extend the pencil:

 

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The tip of the pencil holder unscrews to reveal a metal rod. Twisting the knurled mounting of the rod clockwise extends it, allowing you to push the pencil lead forward through the tip as it wears down. The repoussé cap at the rear of the holder unscrews for storage of spare leads:

 

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I don't have any pencil leads the right size yet, so I haven't been able to test that part. The Edward Todd nib is fine to EF with some flex.

 

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#48 Goudy

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 18:05

A Bard & Brother No.4 nib in a Mabie, Todd & Co retractable holder.
 
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From information gleaned from Kamakura Pens and other online sources (not all in agreement on dates and facts!)... Bard & Brother were nib makers based in New York and Boston, flourishing in the 1840s. When the business closed in 1851, two of the company's agents, William Smith and Edward Todd, took over the New York office to form Smith & Todd. Edward Todd later joined with John Mabie to form Mabie, Todd & Co (1860), then in 1868 left to make pens under his own name. Between 1873 and 1907, Mabie, Todd & Co were rebranded as Mabie, Todd & Bard.
 
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If that history of the companies is correct, nib and holder probably date from different decades. The nib would be 1851 or earlier, the holder with its repoussé design would be post 1860. The part of the holder that actually grips the nib had become lost at some point in its 150 year life, so I MacGyvered a replacement from a piece of brass shim (just visible in the picture below). The holder also incorporates a mechanical pencil, which is functionally identical to the Edward Todd one in my last post.
 
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The nib has a different feel from the Mabie Todd and Edward Todd nibs I've previously posted about, with a softer flex, requiring a light touch.
 
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Edit: The imprint on the nib was probably Bard & Brothers (with an s) originally, though the s is now completely worn away.

Edited by Goudy, 19 January 2016 - 23:41.

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#49 Bagpiper

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 22:57

Hi,

This is my first post to the forums. I have recently acquired a few dip pens, one is Mabie & Todd, NYC, 14k 313 No. 7 Nib, and Mabie & Todd, NY Number 4 Dip Pen, with a 14K no 3 nib, MOP handle, and the third is a John Wannamker Dip Pen, which was the Macy's of the day and is basically a rebranded pen from another company.

Any comments welcomed.

#50 Goudy

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 00:13

Hi Bagpiper, welcome to the forums. Do you have any pictures of the Mabie Todd pens? I've never seen a No.7 313 in the flesh.


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#51 Bagpiper

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 01:32

Hi, I did attach a photo with the the first post but it didn't upload - trying again - it might be a permission problem

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Edited by Bagpiper, 20 March 2016 - 01:36.


#52 Bagpiper

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 02:19

More No 7 Nib

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#53 Goudy

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 02:42

Ooh, your No.7 is a "bishop's hat" nib - very rare and in lovely condition, too! Unlike all the other pens in this thread, the nib and ferrule of yours are all one piece of solid gold, shaped like a bishop's mitre and attached to an ebony staff. Truly a beautiful (and very valuable) pen. It looks like it may have a good flex, too.

 

Very pretty handle on the No.3.

 

The third pen, I think, is a desk pen that would have stood upright in a holder.


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#54 Bagpiper

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 03:19

Thanks for your comments, I just learned how to describe the No 7 accurately! It is very flexible but the nib needs some work.

I showed it to a dealer at the Long Island Pen Show last week and he recommended that I send it out and get a piece of iridium placed on the tip. He mentioned it was a nice pen and worth a few bucks so it was worth getting the nib restored.

I haven't seen another pen like it yet on the web, so I really appreciate the info.

The pen is from my grandmother estate, and she got it from another estate. I remember the original owner from when I was a kid.

It's been sitting in a drawer in my fathers house for 3-5 decades. He just mentioned today that he has an old Watermen somewhere in his home, I'm crossing my fingers he finds it.

#55 Goudy

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 03:53

I showed it to a dealer at the Long Island Pen Show last week and he recommended that I send it out and get a piece of iridium placed on the tip. He mentioned it was a nice pen and worth a few bucks so it was worth getting the nib restored.

 

The last time I saw a Mabie Todd bishop's hat on eBay it sold for $647. That one was only a No.3, but it was more ornate:

 

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Here's an E S Johnson bishop's hat ($533) that's closer in style to yours.

 

I'd be cautious about retipping, and only consider it if you're sure that the original tipping material has come away. The tipping on a 313 extra-fine nib would be miniscule, so use a loupe and inspect it closely. It's normal for a very fine dip pen to have a bit of "tooth". Putting a rounded fountain pen type ball of iridium on the tip would be inauthentic and certainly devalue it as a collector's item. That said, there may be retippers who could do the work correctly.


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#56 Bagpiper

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 04:07

Thanks again for the update, I will take some better photos and see what advice I get back from retippers. You have a very good point about changing the pen collectors value, I would hate to alter the value on something rare.

I was looking through the some old newspapers hoping to see some original ads and came across this from 1868:

New York Times - 25 Feb 1868

Copartnership Notices

Dissolution of Copartnership

The Copartnership heretofore existing under the firm name MABIE, TODD & CO., is this day dissolved by mutual consent, EDWARD TODD retiring. The outstanding business will be settled by JOHN MABIE or EDWARD TODD, at their offices, No. 180 Broadway.

JOHN MABIE
EDWARD TOOD
JOHN McGOVERN
New York, Jan 13, 1868

COPARTNERSHIP
The undersigned have this day formed a Copartnership under the name and firm of MABIE, TODD & CO., and continue to manufacture and sale of Gold Pens, Pencil Cases, &c., at the old stand, No. 180 Broadway

JOHN MABIE
HENRY H. TOOD
JONATHAN SPRAGUE BARD
JOHN McGOVERN
New York, Jan 13, 1868

#57 Goudy

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:16

Thanks for that bit of Mabie Todd history. That nicely explains why Mabie, Todd & Co kept the Todd in their title even after Edward Todd left the company in 1868 to make pens under his own name. It also explains where the Bard of Mabie, Todd & Bard (1873-1907) came from.

 

Henry Todd was, I think, Edward Todd's brother.


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#58 FredRydr

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 15:58

Using dip pens requires relearning how to write, including the use of a "slope."  

 

Fred



#59 Bagpiper

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 00:42

I found various newspapers articles from the late 19th century that mentioned several building fires that Mabie Todd factory. The articles highlighted how much each insurance claim was, which ranged from $2,000 to $15,000. I believe I found at 3 to 4 separate fires over a 15 year period.

#60 Bagpiper

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 23:16

Hi,

I found a 1903 Mabie Todd Product Catalog that shows my Number 4 pens (With No 3 Nib and MOP handle) and a pen that is almost like the No. 7 Bishop hat style pen. The difference in the No. 7 illustrated is the pattern different

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