Generations And Types Of Dorics

[Greenie]

Richards Pens and Pensbury Manor leave me with the impression that the 1st generation Dorics have roller clips, and a celluloid cap lip. The 2nd generation have standard clips and a metal cap lip.

 

What are the Doric pens with the standard clip and celluloid cap lip, like my first Doric seen below? These also seem to be non-gold seal, like a reduced trim model. But where do they fit in Gen 1 vs. Gen 2? They look like the "Junior Sized" in the vintage ad on Walnut's site. My pen is 5 7/8, which seems pretty standard sized to me.

 

I am confused. Would appreciate clarification from Doric fans.

 

[user01]

I´m not a professional when it comes to Dorics but I think that your pen is an ordinary 1st Gen Doric. Only the larger/better 1st Gen Dorics had the roller clip as far as I know.

When I was looking for "my dream Doric" I figured out that my dream combination does not exist: There is no second Gen (metal cap lip) lever filler Doric in Burma celluloid that has a roller clip.

[ihimlen]

1. The model you have, in Morocco Pearl, is also a part of the 1st generation of Dorics. In 1932 Eversharp catalogue it is referred to as "Popular Priced Doric", and is pictured *with* a Gold Seal emblem, produced in the same colours as the highest Doric line (except Burma, which is not in the catalogue but off-catalogue Popular models in Burma exist; Morocco Pearl also isn't catalogued), with a slightly reduced trim (the slightly more narrow 'diamond band').

 

2. The Doric line-up was the same as for Deco Bands/Gold Seal Personal Point pens and Equipoiseds. So the Popular priced Dorics relate to the Gold Seal Personal Point flat-tops with two bands on the cap and the Gold Seal Equipoised pens with reduced trim (no bands to the top of the cap and bottom of the barrel).

 

3. At some point in the early 30s (probably 1933-34), Wahl-Eversharp decided to do away with Gold Seal emblem on Popular priced Dorics. It must have happened quite early, because vast majority of these pens have *no* Gold Seal emblem. However, Gold Seal Popular Priced Dorics are also known, although they are very rarely seen, likely they are very early 1932 production. Syd suggests that lack of Gold Seal on these Popular Dorics was the result of FTC ruling about warranty, but Eversharp continued to offer Gold Seal pens until 1939 (e.g. Gold Seal Airliner Dorics) so there might have been a different reason.

 

4. In the mid-1930s diamond band Dorics were produced in the new "shell" celluloid, with the same style (but press-fitted) clip.

Edited September 9, 2015 by ihimlen

[Greenie]

Thanks ihimlen! Exactly the information I was looking for.

[Ray_NEMBFV]

Hello,

 

Looking for some help. I just picked this up off of ebay. I know it's a second gen Doric (Airliner?) by the cap, and has the inkview window, and love the color. I dipped the nib and it writes awesome. But apparently, I will need a new sac (maybe hardware?). Can anyone offer suggestions as to who might be a good choice to restore the innards? The celluloid and gold plating are good, and as I said the nib writes awesome, but the lever made a "crackling" sound when I moved it (again, I'll presume the sac needs replacing), so no other detailing should be needed (unless, of course, I'm an ignorant newbie who doesn't know any better). Any help is appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Ray

 

[Wahlnut]

Hmmm I se no answers for you. The repair of your pen is a pretty straight forward one. The only tricky part is that the Airliner pens have a 2-part window. The outer barrel clear part and the section extension clear part that also is shaped into theca nipple. The risky part of the repair is removing the section (and inner clear section extension without breaking the clear outer window. Having said that there is a long list of qualified repairers who are both reasonable in pricing and competent. We don't make referrals here, but there are many pen sites that do. Pen Hero for example has a list of qualified repair people. Find one near to you. If you have trouble doing that you can Private Message me and I will spout a list of people known to do good work.

[Ray_NEMBFV]

Thanks for the feedback. I did find Aaron at Pentiques.com who was both reasonable and quick.

 

Now the follow up: turns out that it has Skyliner hardware-feed and nib are both from that model. It writes awesome, but should I invest the time and money tracking down the original nib and feed, or just enjoy the pen? I'm not sure how to identify which version had the regular nib and which had the adjustable nib. Any feedback, comments welcome.

[Greenie]

With the plastic ends changing as they are doing, I would restore and enjoy using it. It is not worth searching for "correct" parts. Save that exercise for more pristine examples that can be collector specimens rather than pens in frequent usage. It is a cool pen to be carried used and enjoyed!

[Ray_NEMBFV]

Actually, here are better pictures of the pen. It was awesome work by Aaron at Pentiques.com. And I threw in a writing sample as well.

 

Thanks,

 

Ray

[Wahlnut]

Whoa...The nib and feed are correct for that model Doric. The "Magic Feed" in it and the elongated breather hole nib were both carried over to the Skyline pens a couple of years later. Those are correct pre-skyline elements. These parts were standard equipment on the Airliner model of the Doric...To be totally accurate the September 1938 catalog does not call this pen a Doric! It is just called the Airliner. Anyway you do not need to worry about replacing them.

Syd

[Ray_NEMBFV]

Thanks so much Syd. I had no idea that was the normal issue. It's a gorgeous pen and writes like a dream. I was disappointed that it was a combo-pen (not franken, but close). I love it. My only problem is I keep carrying it around, simply because I can't put it down. Now I have to stop, because it's a real Airliner. Thanks again!

[Wahlnut]

I carry my nicer pens around in one of our soft leather pen pouches...not bulletproof, but enough. And the rectangular outline of the pouch keeps it from falling out of pockets in pants and jackets.

[Ray_NEMBFV]

I'm actually taking a new job at a coffee roasting plant, that sounds like a prudent idea. I have one for my 149, but I don't necessarily take that out too much. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

 

"One of our" soft leather pen pouches sounds like a plug. Is there an FPN version or some iteration thereof? I haven't looked, but I think I will.

 

Thanks again, Syd

Edited March 4, 2016 by Ray_NEMBFV

[Wahlnut]

It was not supposed to be a plug but since you perceived it as such, we need to take further discussion to PM message. So if you want to, contact me there.

[Greenie]

Since I am not Syd, I can more freely state my opinion on this.

 

I have one of those pouches being hinted at and they are really nice quality. Soft leather, non abrasive and soft lining, and quality stitching. If you want a harder case, this is not the one. But it is a great quality soft case to protect from falling from pocket, scratches, and to pad it a bit in your pocket, briefcase, etc.

[Ray_NEMBFV]

Stop it already, for the sake of the thread, I will be putting my Doric, which is actually an Airliner, in my brand new soft leather pouch from Wahl Eversharp as soon as it gets here.

 

Seriously, thanks for the info. I was looking for something and wasn't sure what, that fits the bill.

[Wahlnut]

Back to the 2 original questions:

In general I believe IHIMLEN is right with what he wrote.

IMHO.

1) The Morocco celluloid plastic indicates "1st generation". The "diamond" pattern cap band was on the Popular Priced Doric-a model name that did not go on to the 2nd generation dorics, even though the diamond pattern cap band did.

2) The 2nd Generation Dorics went through at least 2 model name changes in catalogs (1935 and then 1938) for some sizes and configurations where pens that were all called Doric in the 1st Gen, had a 2nd model name change by 1938. In 1938, The top of the line with adjustable nib and ink shut-off and clear band ink window became "Airliners" and they were described in catalog as "Doric Shape"selling for $8.75 to $10.75. The next step down was the "Standard" which had the Adjustable nib, and ink view band window, but no ink shutoff selling for $7-$10. Next came the "Doric" which had adjustable nib and no ink shutoff, and had the simple 2 band linked cap band selling for $3.75. And then came the model with the continuation of the diamond pattern cap band also called "Standard" $5.00" like the red morocco pen shown above.

 

So the revised conclusion about the green pen snagged on eBay is a "Standard" and not an Airliner. The nib not being adjustable means it was either ordered/bought without one -( there were many configurations not shown in catalogs) or it has a replacement nib. The nonadjustable nib and Magic Feed" is often found on the Standard so it seems that it was a normal configuration option.

 

I think I wrote the above accurately.

 

As for the bright green color at the cap top: When these plastics start to turn that way they indicate the beginning of the breakdown of the plastic polymers to where they blend together and lose their distinct pattern and become more transparent. There is a lot of time between that condition and when crystallization occurs, but eventually (maybe 10 years or more out), they will begin to crystallize and disintegrate...

 

Pictures would help all of this and I may add pictures to this rundown if time permits.

[sidthecat]

Interesting thread - I just picked up a Gold Seal Doric in Morocco...a ringtop. I've never seen one before.

The nib looks like a Skyline nib...would that have been a replacement or just a late-model pen?

[Ray_NEMBFV]

From my limited, but new found knowledge, from the time period, the Skyline feed was a transition in manufacturing and the "Magic Feed" was taken from the Skyline model and used in the "Doric" models. Although when you read, you will find that term far too generic with the number of models involved.

[sidthecat]

Pen history is a dark and tangled thing. I get the impression that for most of the big pen companies, ringtops were a bit of a stepchild. The exception seems to be Moores, which have more design variations in its ringtop line than the other big makers. Has anyone else made this observation?