M400 With 18K Nib?

[rutherfordr]

Hi there,

 

I was given what I think is an M400 (the size and weight match the specs for the M400), but the nib says it's 18k gold.

 

Is this an older model, or could someone have replaced the nib in the past?

 

Thank you!

[whych]

You need to look at the trim because it is probably an early M600.

The first M600 was the same size as the M400, but had a ring at the filler knob and a double ring on the cap.

It came with an 18K nib as standard.

Edited August 20, 2015 by whych

[rutherfordr]

Thank you! That's exactly what the trim looks like.

 

Also, the ink window is transparent gray, not green.

 

This pen must have been made some time between 1982 and 1997, according to this web site:

http://www.ruettinger-web.de/e-pelikan-modell-souveraen.html

 

I wonder if that means it's a vintage pen?

Edited August 20, 2015 by rutherfordr

[sargetalon]

The old M600s are great. I love them. Often mistaken for M400s. Congrats. Not quite vintage but definitely timeless.

[Calabria]

You need to look at the trim because it is probably an early M600.

The first M600 was the same size as the M400, but had a ring at the filler knob and a double ring on the cap.

It came with an 18K nib as standard.

thank you for clarifying that! I just picked up what I was sold as an M400 but noticed it had the monochrome 18C nib and also the piston knob band that is familiar from the early M600s. There is another oddity - the engraved Pelikan logo on the cap is colored grey.

 

I somehow thought it was a Frankenpen or some trial run. Still, the craftsmanship is impeccable so I got it anyway.

 

What years were these made?

 

I also have a question about the nib. It's a F but a fairly broad writer, especially when compared with an 80s brown tortoise I have. Although it has a lot of tipping material, the point is nicely sculpted - unlike later "blob" nibs. When were these transitional nibs made?

[Calabria]

PS The nib also has a very small stamp at the side, maybe "PF". Does that signify anything (like, Pelikan Feder)?

[Lam1]

PS The nib also has a very small stamp at the side, maybe "PF". Does that signify anything (like, Pelikan Feder)?

The PF seems to be a Swiss customs stamp. There is a thread pinned in the forum "M800 pf nib" which explains it.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Lam1

[Calabria]

The PF seems to be a Swiss customs stamp. There is a thread pinned in the forum "M800 pf nib" which explains it.

thanks for the tip! Ach ja! I have a weird stamp on a French M800 I bought a while ago and know now what that means also!

[pajaro]

There are also some 18K nibs looking like M400 nibs that I think came from an upmodel M4XX. I bought a medium one, two tone, on ebay for $50.

[sargetalon]

Calabria, you might find these two links to be of some interest based on your questions above...

 

-The M600

http://thepelikansperch.com/2014/11/29/pelikan-m600-comparison/

 

-The PF nib

http://thepelikansperch.com/2014/09/22/the-pf-pn-nibs-explained/

[Calabria]

Thank you for the links, Sargetalon. The mystery deepens, since the cap clearly states "Germany" which suggests post-1990 production, while the 18C monochrome F nib would, according to your source, fit a pre-1988 pen. The tipping material on this nib seems a bit much for that date - on the other hand, the tip itself has been crafted with some attention to detail which would suggest the distinction of a higher end line in its early years.

 

I've also never seen the cap logo colored in grey. The pen itself is from some remarkable collection, so perhaps somebody put all the most unusual aspects together on this pen - making it a lovingly created Frankenpen?

[jar]

Thank you for the links, Sargetalon. The mystery deepens, since the cap clearly states "Germany" which suggests post-1990 production, while the 18C monochrome F nib would, according to your source, fit a pre-1988 pen. The tipping material on this nib seems a bit much for that date - on the other hand, the tip itself has been crafted with some attention to detail which would suggest the distinction of a higher end line in its early years.

 

I've also never seen the cap logo colored in grey. The pen itself is from some remarkable collection, so perhaps somebody put all the most unusual aspects together on this pen - making it a lovingly created Frankenpen?

 

The "Germany" stamp does not necessarily point to a post-1990 pen and I would not place too much weight on that. East Germany did not even recognize the existence of a divided Germany for most of the period after WWII and so used just "Germany" as the official designation.

 

early 600 third from the right next to blue later 600

http://www.fototime.com/2565805F35DD5E2/large.jpg

[Matlock]

 

The "Germany" stamp does not necessarily point to a post-1990 pen and I would not place too much weight on that. East Germany did not even recognize the existence of a divided Germany for most of the period after WWII and so used just "Germany" as the official designation.

 

True, but Pelikans were not made in East Germany. The East usually used DDR or GDR rather than Germany.

[jar]

True, but Pelikans were not made in East Germany. The East usually used DDR or GDR rather than Germany.

But West Germany did not recognize that Germany was divided and so used just "Germany".

[Calabria]

I wish FPN made it easier to upload images. Is it true you have to upload the images first to a file sharing site? Like Flickr? Very annoying, since we all want to see images of what we're talking about!

Anyway, I will continue and try posting images of the engraved cap logo, which seems actually to be colored white – it looks grey, but that may be because it is on black. Before sending the nib off to be reground to EF, I would like to know what the white (grey) version of the logo stands for – I have this weird feeling it's a factory code for a trial run or show item.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Calabria

[Calabria]

But West Germany did not recognize that Germany was divided and so used just "Germany".

Waiiit a minute ... I grew up in Germany during the separation (which seemed permanent for all I knew) and all products I came into contact with were clearly labeled "W. Germany" as a way to distinguish high quality Western products from lesser quality Eastern ones – also, I feel, it was a political statement, acknowledging the political reality (which, it has to be said, was never a strong point of the GDR).

[Matlock]

But West Germany did not recognize that Germany was divided and so used just "Germany".

Really? As Calabria said, items made in W. Germany were clearly marked W. Germany (with a few exceptions).

I think that West Germany were pretty well aware that Germany was divided even if they did not agree with it. Remember it was not the Germans that divided their nation, but the USA, the UK and the Soviet Union, at the Yalta Conference..

Edited August 31, 2015 by Matlock

[carlos.q]

I wish FPN made it easier to upload images. Is it true you have to upload the images first to a file sharing site? Like Flickr? Very annoying, since we all want to see images of what we're talking about!

 

I agree that uploading images to FPN is not intuitive but you do not have to use flickr. Just use the "upload" tab at the top of the page, locate and upload the file from your computer, copy the resulting BBCode and paste it to the body of your post.

 

If you do use a site like flickr please take into consideration that any change in the image hosting site will result in losing the link to the images. That is why there are so many useless old posts where pictures and scans have disappeared.

[jar]

Really? As Calabria said, items made in W. Germany were clearly marked W. Germany (with a few exceptions).

I think that West Germany were pretty well aware that Germany was divided even if they did not agree with it. Remember it was not the Germans that divided their nation, but the USA, the UK and the Soviet Union, at the Yalta Conference..

 

But East Germany was not recognized as existing. For example at the UN there was only Germany just as there was only China (Taiwan). East Germany and mainland China simply were non-existing entities.

 

The West Germany designation came later in the very late 70s and 80s.

[Calabria]

Edited August 31, 2015 by Calabria