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Softest/flexiest Pelikan 400 Nibs?

pelikan 400 pelikan 400 soft flexible flexibility softness

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10 replies to this topic

#1 Hedgehogs4Me

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 01:25

Hi guys, looking at potentially getting a Pelikan 400 sometime soon, but, of course, there are so many differnet ones that have been made. Friction fit script, screw in unit script, logo, logo in 400N, logo in 400NN, logo in 400NN M&K... which ones usually will have the most flexibility (or easiest flex)? I won't be using this for calligraphy or anything, but I do like to put some flair on my signatures and writing every so often and I'd love to have some breathing room for how far I can push it. Thanks!

 

(Also, is there anything else I should know before buying one? This kind of purchase always makes me nervous!)


Edited by Hedgehogs4Me, 17 July 2015 - 01:25.


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#2 sargetalon

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 02:33

Flex is not my thing so I can't comment on that part of your question but I'm sure BoBo will be along.

As far as other thing to consider, you can find some tips for buying vintage Pelikans here; http://thepelikanspe...n-fountain-pen/

PELIKAN - Too many birds in the flock to count.  My pen chest has proven to be a most fertile breeding ground.

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#3 risingsun

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 04:41

Some swear by the ST (steno) nibs. They were reportedly designed to give a little more to suit the stenography style. I've got a couple (a 400 and a 140) with the ST marking and I'd say they are quite flexy, though I'm sure they vary from nib to nib. I've also found the 'K' style nibs of the 100Ns (based solely on my personal experience with a sample size of three nibs) seem to have more give to them. I quite enjoy those nibs.

Take it for what it's worth... But be aware than none even come close to wet noodle status, nor should they. Don't buy one and expect it to perform like a flexible nib, or you will have a sprung nib.

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#4 christof

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 05:57

The most flexible Pelikan 400 nib I have is actually a ST nib:
 
19577240030_9ce91d090d_b.jpg
 
This is the only 400 nib, I would call a true flexible.

 

7512904118_d2a002204e_b.jpg

 

 

 

 

This nib is one of my daily writers, since years.

 

Here on the Forum and Classifieds, you can read a lot about the flexibility of vintage Pelikan 400 nibs. Now, that is not my experience. Although these older nibs are sometimes quite springy, I never would call them flexible. My ST nib is the exception.

And yes, I have the same experiences as risingsun with Pelikan 100N and 100 which are more flexible than Pelikan 400 nibs in most cases.
 
C.
 
PS: Do not be fooled by fancy writing samples, which most certain have been done with to much pressure...


Edited by christof, 17 July 2015 - 10:18.

. . . my current S A L E S . . .

 

 

 

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#5 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 09:44

Rats, I don't have a Steno nib. :angry: :angry:  Got to get one someday.

 

My advice is to get a Pelikan 140. It is a medium-small pen, like a Geha 760 or a Kaweco Dia. It was a very popular size back then in the '50-60's. A great pen to fit the modern short shirt pocket. (Once shirt pockets were longer than today's.)

It posts long, as long as a 400. Has good balance.

It is a semi-flex nib, unless you look hard for a H (semi-nail to nail) or a D nib, (nail's nail...good for opening up Sherman tanks.)

 

A 120 is a nice springy regular flex nib. The 140 is semi-flex.

Of the '50-65 Pelikan nibs that is all you can count on.

 

For the 400, 400n, 400nn,500's,  the OP went to the corner pen store and decided if he wanted a semi-flex or a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex nib. So you have to guess or hope when you buy wild. It is worth extra to make sure your nib has the degree of flex rate you wish. If you have a semi-flex 140, you would want a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex 400, 400n or 400nn.

 

I suggest buying a 140 first. In it takes some three months for the normal Ham Fisted writer to lighten his Hand, so he can be Slightly Ham Fisted and be ready for the 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex.

 

True regular flex....I call that so, in today most pen companies are selling semi-nail as regular flex, in it costs less in repair because of the invasion of Ham Fisted Ball Point Barbarians.

Regular flex, semi-flex and 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex spread their tines only 3X a light down stroke. To force them to do Olympic splits, will spring the nibs. They are not Superflex/"Flex" nibs.

 

Flattish bottomened-stubbish Semi-flex and 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex give you natural line variation, with out having to do anything.....it's built in.

 

First buy a true regular flex nibbed pen.

You need to really mash it to get the tines to spread to 3 X a light down stroke.

Semi-flex takes half that pressure.

'Flexi'/maxi-semi-flex takes half the pressure of semi-flex or 1/4th the pressure needed to spread the tines of a regular flex.

 

Please read my signature.

Semi&Maxi add flair and are not Copperplate or Spenserian nibs. You can fancy a first letter, put some flare in a descender or make the final e or a word, or a T crossing look nice.

Semi&Maxi-semi-flex gives you some of that old fashioned fountain pen look, with out doing anything.

 

'50-65 Obliques are the only obliques to buy. Period!!! The modern ones are just for left handers or folks with left eye dominance who always cant their nibs. Modern Obliques are such a waste of money. Even the 200's oblique is not worth buying. They don't have that bit or tad of flex, to make them work.

 

I was ever so lucky my first semi-flex was a 140 OB. :drool: :puddle:

First the size of Vintage Pelikan nibs is 1/2 a size narrower than modern.

So a B-OB is like a fat M. It is a writing nib, not a signature nib like modern B-OB nibs. It has a wide enough foot print that one can learn to use Obliques with a bit or a tad of flex easy. You don't have to be as precise in nib placement like an OM or OF.

 

In the modern nails and semi-nails have no line variation therefore are great to make stubbed or into a Cursive Italic nib. They are as a fine poster said, Maxed line variation always. Semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex are more line variation on demand. The nibs of the '50-65 era are flat-stubbish on the bottom, there is no American Bump Under....except on the 120.

 

Add that stubbishness, the bit or tad of flex, and the Oblique grind, gives you a nib with great line variation.

For years we had a running conversation on some folks were disappointed with their vintage Obliques.

 

Obliques  have 2 grinds @ 15 and @ 30 degree grinds. The idea is to place the nib flat on the paper, and write.

I came up with a trick. Look to see which grind your Oblique has 15 or 30 degree.

If it is a @ 15 degree grind, post the cap so the clip is half way between the nib slit and the right hand edge of the nib. Ignoring the nib, using the clip as a guide, just place the pen to the paper and write.

For 30 degree, align the clip with the right hand edge of the nib, ignoring the canted nib, and write.

 

Don't twist your fingers, hand or arm trying to make the nib do something(what I don't know...but some folks wish to make an Oblique do something, instead of letting it write)....and hanging off the chandelier; is only of minor help. Just write, if there is somewhere you want a bit more line variation, you need only to press a tad harder and it is there.

 

We still had problems with certain folks. Sigh.

Richard came up with the next and final step in solving this problem.

Some folks need to place the paper at 90 or 180 degrees instead of 45 degrees.

I never had any problems like many at writing at a 45 degree angle....but some did.

 

NO! Writing with an Oblique in semi or Maxi is not really a problem. It is :puddle: :drool: :notworthy1: :thumbup: .

I have some 30 semi-flex, 15 maxi-semi-flex.

I have some 15 Obliques, in a mix of semi&maxi....and was pure lucky enough to get 15&30 degree grinds in OBB, OB, OM & OF.

 

I decided OEF was too small to waste money chasing in for my eyes it was way too small...for the line variation I could see.

 

I suggest a 140 and in B or OB. Yes, you can learn to write larger if you wish, and when you see the line variation you will want to use wider lines to enjoy what the nib will give you.

Right now I have my semi-flex 400n Tortoise B nib in my 605. :thumbup: Defiantly has that old fashioned fountain pen flair.

 

You do need then a good shading ink. B) :ninja: :P


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 17 July 2015 - 10:28.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#6 Hedgehogs4Me

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 22:59

Wow, that's a lot of information. Thanks!

 

I do believe I want a 400, though, not a 140. I've dealt with both semiflex and flex nibs before and can tell the difference, but I don't really want to take my old BCHR pens out and around the block - I'd feel more comfortable with something a little more modern and the extra convenience of the piston filling mechanism makes it brilliant (plus I've heard, and I quote, "there's nothing quite like writing with a Pelikan"). But, yeah, my Waterman #5 brown stripe is very different than my old kinda-soft-to-semi-flexible Eagle eyedropper and I can definitely tell the difference between them, so I'm not too concerned about springing the nib unless you think Pelikan nibs are especially deceptive in this way.

 

I've held a 400 before and it was magnificent, but the EF nib wasn't quite for me, so I'll see what I can dig up elsewhere in that area as well. I generally like finer nibs, but you're right that nib bredth has really changed over the years - it was more like a Japanese F or EF than a modern German EF. Now I know, hehe. My Levenger TW F is pretty good or even a touch broad sometimes on certain paper, so I'll probably look for the Pelikan in F or M.

 

It's pretty disappointing that there's no way to tell the difference between flexibility levels on sight. I mean, it's easier to grind down tipping material than to change the alloy the nib is made of, and yet everyone only marks the bredth. What's with that?



#7 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 09:27

There is no way to tell if a 400, 400n, 400nn's nib is semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex but the word of the seller. I have a 400&400n in semi-flex, a 500&400NN in maxi-semi-flex....a couple of 140's in semi-flex too.

 

Someone on our selling section of the com, Rick or Penboard.de or there is a woman who has an auction house for pens.....Martinia or something like that, that can help you out on making sure you get the maxi-semi-flex.

 

Remember semi-flex needs half as much pressure as a regular flex to spread it's tines 3 X, and what you want the 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex needs only 1/4th the pressure. The seller must know the difference.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#8 canibanoglu

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 17:21

Regina Martini but she rarely has something interesting in her vintage offerings. 


I sometimes write about pens, inks and papers!

#9 headrom

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 19:25

Thánk for your sharing!
No pen is best pen.

#10 headrom

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 01:12

Thánk for your sharing!
No pen is best pen.

#11 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 23:12

I forgot to mention our com's sale section. There should be someone who knows if his 400,400n or 400nn is semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex, and mention it when selling.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: pelikan, 400, pelikan 400, soft, flexible, flexibility, softness



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