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"best" Filling System For A Sheaffer Newb?


beanbag

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Hi folks,

 

I want to try to get one of those Triumph nib Sheaffers, preferably a fat one with the two tone colors and solid gold. I started reading about the various filling systems such as touch down, snorkel, vacuum, etc. Assuming that I would get a used pen that may need repairing, which system is the easiest for me to fix, and works the "best"* when it is actually working?

 

I have access to a lot of tools like lathes, mills, laser cutters, and etc, so cutting or remaking something is not that hard, but trying to find a hard-to-make piece would be annoying.

 

I also like changing inks a lot, and don't mind opening up the pen to flush it out, and then add ink with a syringe. Maybe a cartridge converter system is best?

 

* "best" means whatever you think is best, since I don't know what the performance difference is between these filling systems.

 

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A lever filler is the easiest to restore.

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
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I would have to agree that Levers are the easiest to restore. Replacing a sac on a lever pen is a really good skill to have in general because you can then fix many other lever fill pens as it was a fairly common filling system. It's easy to do, and it means you can buy lever pens on the cheap and make them work yourself. It's more fun too, writing with a pen you've restored.

"Oh deer."

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Cartridge / converter fountain pens are easiest to maintain. I believe the main focus of your search should be a smooth, comfortable nib.

Auf freiem Grund mit freiem Volke stehn.
Zum Augenblicke dürft ich sagen:
Verweile doch, du bist so schön !

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Cartridge is easiest, Cartridge/converter systems next. Lever systems are pretty easy to restore but difficult to flush. Snorkel systems are near impossible to flush. Touchdown non snorkel systems are fairly easy to restore but moderately hard to flush. The Plunger system is the hardest to restore but the easiest to fill and flush.

 

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Jar just nailed it. It all depends on what your priority is. Ease of restoration of a vintage pen? - Lever filler. Ease of ownership and maintenance then C/C. Once it's restore, ease of ownership of a vintage, then I'm partial to the plunger fillers.

 

“When the historians of education do equal and exact justice to all who have contributed toward educational progress, they will devote several pages to those revolutionists who invented steel pens and blackboards.” V.T. Thayer, 1928

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Cartridge is easiest, Cartridge/converter systems next. Lever systems are pretty easy to restore but difficult to flush. Snorkel systems are near impossible to flush. Touchdown non snorkel systems are fairly easy to restore but moderately hard to flush. The Plunger system is the hardest to restore but the easiest to fill and flush.

I'm wondering if one of those ultrasonic pen cleaners would be better than flushing with water. I don't have one but have been thinking about getting one. That would make deep cleaning easier.

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I'm wondering if one of those ultrasonic pen cleaners would be better than flushing with water. I don't have one but have been thinking about getting one. That would make deep cleaning easier.

It depends on the pen. I don't see how it could help in most systems.

 

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It depends on the pen. I don't see how it could help in most systems.

I had heard that the ultrasonic was used so that the flushing process wasn't necessary. Wouldn't that be easier? I may be misguided about this.

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I had heard that the ultrasonic was used so that the flushing process wasn't necessary. Wouldn't that be easier? I may be misguided about this.

 

Lots of what needs to get "flushed" is internal, in sacs or other places. In many cases you do not want to put the whole pen in water (often pieces parts of lever fillers, piston fillers, vac fillers, button fillers can rust if exposed to water. Plating on nibs can be damaged or even removed by some Ultrasonic cleaners.

 

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Lots of what needs to get "flushed" is internal, in sacs or other places. In many cases you do not want to put the whole pen in water (often pieces parts of lever fillers, piston fillers, vac fillers, button fillers can rust if exposed to water. Plating on nibs can be damaged or even removed by some Ultrasonic cleaners.

Ya, that's the problem, I think, with the ultrasonic. Would it do more damage than good? I still flush the pens I get being careful, like you said, what materials I expose to the water. I just thought I would suggest the ultrasonic method as an alternative. I'm going to do some research on the ultrasonic cleaners to find out why they are used for fountain pens.

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The '40's is the era for big triumph nibs, that rules out cartridge as an option. The beautiful celluloid pens are the classics from that period, so lever of vac for those. The first touchdowns are a decent size and excellent user pens, relatively easy to restore but only in solid colors. Vac fill is difficult to restore ( you'd be best to buy a couple of junkers to practice on before buying a keeper) so virtually by default lever becomes the filler of choice in the celluloid models. All filling systems work well when restored with the vac holding the most ink, the touchdown the least.

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Ya, that's the problem, I think, with the ultrasonic. Would it do more damage than good? I still flush the pens I get being careful, like you said, what materials I expose to the water. I just thought I would suggest the ultrasonic method as an alternative. I'm going to do some research on the ultrasonic cleaners to find out why they are used for fountain pens.

 

In my experience, an USC will work on dried ink, and probably partially dried ink, but it won't do anything for liquid ink. After a good cleaning with the USC, I leave the pen to soak overnight, and in the morning there usually is a cloud of ink in the glass. That is the liquid ink in the feed/collector that the USC did not get out.

 

As for where it works well is cleaning out dried ink from the feed/nib. This really shortens the time to clean a used pen. Especially where the feed is so clogged with old dry ink that you cannot force water thru the feed/nib.

Works great to get an Esterbrook nib able to be unscrewed from the section. And probably similar screw in nib assemblies of other manufacturers, such as Pelikan.

 

Be VERY careful if the nib is plated, I have completely deplated one nib and partially deplated 2 nibs. And there was no abrasion with the basket, the nibs were suspended in the cleaning fluid.

 

An USC will also drive water into small places that you may not be able to dry out. So I would NOT put a cap into an USC, as you won't get the water out from between the cap and the inner cap.

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As was said easiest to use is cartridge then cartridge/converter.

There are some Sheaffers that are cartridge ONLY. You can't put a screw converter in them. And some look exactly like ones that will take a screw converter.

These are the easiest to restore/clean and get into writing shape.

 

The Snorkel is the hardest to restore, I recommend you sent that to a pen tech to do.

 

If you want to change inks a lot, definitely go with a cartridge/converter pen.

San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

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Thanks for the suggestions.

I only did some some brief reading, so let me know if anything is wrong:

 

It seems like the only way to get the "big" Triumph nibs are the old lever fillers, vacuum, and the first year touchdowns. Then all the pens after that use the smaller TM style nibs.

 

What other pens are both two tone solid gold Triumph + cartridge besides the revived Crest?

 

For the non-cartridge style pens, which ones will let me simply unscrew the section from the barrel, take out the (broken) guts, and put in my own adapter and cartridge (that I can make myself)? If I can remove the section, then flushing the pen would be super easy.

 

Have the feeds improved over all these years? Two of the nice properties of modern feeds are how they hold ink very tightly to the nib, so if you shake the pen, ink doesn't fly out, and second, they don't expose a lot of the ink to air and thus resists drying out better if the pen is left uncapped for a few minutes.

 

Are all the Triumph nibs designed to write on the top side as well to give a thinner line?

Edited by beanbag

 

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Thanks for the suggestions.

I only did some some brief reading, so let me know if anything is wrong:

 

It seems like the only way to get the "big" Triumph nibs are the old lever fillers, vacuum, and the first year touchdowns. Then all the pens after that use the smaller TM style nibs.

 

What other pens are both two tone solid gold Triumph + cartridge besides the revived Crest?

 

For the non-cartridge style pens, which ones will let me simply unscrew the section from the barrel, take out the (broken) guts, and put in my own adapter and cartridge (that I can make myself)? If I can remove the section, then flushing the pen would be super easy.

 

Have the feeds improved over all these years? Two of the nice properties of modern feeds are how they hold ink very tightly to the nib, so if you shake the pen, ink doesn't fly out, and second, they don't expose a lot of the ink to air and thus resists drying out better if the pen is left uncapped for a few minutes.

 

Are all the Triumph nibs designed to write on the top side as well to give a thinner line?

The Grand Connaisseur and the Nostalgia had two tone nibs IIRC.

 

None of the none cartridge pens will let you pull out the guts and put in your own adapter and cartridge thank God without making the item totally worthless.

 

I have never found your feed observations to be true or relevant.

 

Not all Triumph nibs are designed to write on the top side.

 

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  • 1 month later...

On one of my touchdown pens, I just took out the touchdown mechanism (the sac protector and plunger thing) and replaced it with only a silicone sac. That way, I can easily see how much ink I have left. Plus I have much more ink capacity. Plus it is easy to flush because I just take off the sac and run water straight thru. It seems to be working ok so far...

 

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On one of my touchdown pens, I just took out the touchdown mechanism (the sac protector and plunger thing) and replaced it with only a silicone sac. That way, I can easily see how much ink I have left. Plus I have much more ink capacity. Plus it is easy to flush because I just take off the sac and run water straight thru. It seems to be working ok so far...

 

In effect you've converted the Touchdown into a bulb filler. Don't you seal/reseal the sac with shellac?

fpn_1434850097__cocursive.jpg

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I put on a dab anyway, but I probably didn't need to. Silicone tends to retain its shape, so it probably keeps a constant pressure on the sac nipple.

 

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Silicon sac is semi permiable. OK for a clip pen, but NOT for a desk pen.

You would use a RTV sealant to glue the silicon sac onto the nipple. Devcon Silicone Adhesive 12045 is recommended by David Nishimura.

 

I would NOT pull your silicon sac to clean the pen. You are stressing the sac where it goes over the nipple each time you remove and replace it. Put it on and leave it alone.

San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

www.SFPenShow.com

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