Os Jade Convertible Balance?

[kirchh]

I don't think the short quill would fit on this pen the right way. I think the barrel has a different shape. I don't have one to test with.

 

The existence of Balances with a short quill undermines Lazard's claim that such pens were desk pens, as stickered examples do not bear a desk pen (or convertible pen) model symbol.

 

--Daniel

[Brian-McQueen]

I don't think Lazard has claimed that pens with short quills are desk pens, yet.

 

Regardless, it would be interesting to know if the short quill and my jade end piece would interchange or not.

[Roger W.]

I don't think Lazard has claimed that pens with short quills are desk pens, yet.

 

Regardless, it would be interesting to know if the short quill and my jade end piece would interchange or not.

Brian;

 

They may interchange but, I think that makes a case for nothing as these are never found together as if they were ever meant to be interchanged. Many Sheaffer parts are interchangeable ring top caps with clip barrels giving us two dots but, that was never intentional. I think Daniel's point of converting flattops into balances makes the most sense as the sales figures show an astronomical rise of balances which was likely not anticipated by Sheaffer with the counter demise of the flattop being problematic giving rise to redesigning stock to get it sold. This adjustment in the companies products was dramatic keeping in mind that the flattop would only slowly fade from the Sheaffer lineup after the start of WWII.

 

Roger W.

[Roger W.]

Perhaps the persistence of uncatalogued "dialers" is one more example of how Sheaffer was distributing flattop stock along with these sometimes fused and sometimes butt cap models. Maybe this is why "dialers" are not cataloged as it is not a line that Sheaffer was purposefully pursuing but pursuing from a sense of necessity to move stock.

 

Roger W.

[kirchh]

I think the threading of the stud is the same, but that doesn't provide any support for any particular hypothesis (Sheaffer seems to have used that threading for a wide variety of barrel-end assemblies), and pens with celluloid end caps were likely trued up (a la Vacumatic barrels/blind caps) during finishing, so there would probably be general contour matching but it would vary quite a bit (and given the degree to which celluloid is known to shrink, we can't learn much from matches or mismatches -- for example, the composition quills are quite often larger in diameter at the joint than is the end of the celluloid barrel on which they are found, likely due to shrinkage of the barrel).

 

There is no doubt that Sheaffer found itself with a major overstock of flat top pens when the Balance caught on; Sheaffer took the possibly unprecedented step of taking back dealers' stock at full cost to mollify shops that had suddenly old-fashioned models that could not easily be sold. You get lemons, you make lemonade; you get flat top parts, you make Flatalances...

 

--Daniel

Edited July 8, 2015 by kirchh

[twopens]

Brian, try this for comparison with your pen. The quill is quite long, but the distance from the end of the lever to the butt appears to be the same/similar as yours. The bottom pen does not have a fused end; it's just discolored up to the end of the barrel bore. Caps and barrels are paired as found.

 

 

http://fountainpenboard.com/forum/uploads/fpngallery/album_19/gallery_151_19_119574.jpg

 

Daniel, based on lever location, in order to re-purpose flat top barrels, Sheaffer cut off both ends of the barrel?

Edited July 8, 2015 by twopens

[Brian-McQueen]

Yes I imagine that the threading is the same, but if you remove the short quill and the jade end, are the barrels otherwise the same? I'm trying to refute Lazard's claim that a quill (long or short) exists that would properly fit the pen in question.

 

I agree that this is almost certainly just a different construction method, probably a way to use up leftover flat-top materials, possibly not. But the Oversize pen definitely was not intended to be a desk pen.

 

Since the screw-on end / fused end construction method shows up in the early, long tail Balances, I wonder if someone didn't see the opportunity with the standard size pens and say "hey, if we're going to make them with this screw-on end out of necessity anyway, why don't we just make some desk pen tapers and sell it as a feature?"

[kirchh]

Daniel, based on lever location, in order to re-purpose flat top barrels, Sheaffer cut off both ends of the barrel?

 

That would have to be the case (assuming arguendo that the barrels were converted). The front part would have had to have been shortened to make a proper-length Balance barrel, and the back end might have been trimmed as the most expedient way to open up the barrel end so a thick plug with a threaded hole could be inserted. Again, this is just a hypothesis at this point.

 

--Daniel

[kirchh]

Yes I imagine that the threading is the same, but if you remove the short quill and the jade end, are the barrels otherwise the same? I'm trying to refute Lazard's claim that a quill (long or short) exists that would properly fit the pen in question.

 

I believe the barrels are the same. Another possibility is that these are actually longtail-to-short-tail conversions.

 

--Daniel

[kirchh]

 

I believe the barrels are the same. Another possibility is that these are actually longtail-to-short-tail conversions.

 

--Daniel

More data is needed, but I'm speculating that perhaps some early quilled Balances were slow movers and were converted to short-tail pens by the removal of the relatively long quill and the installation of a shorter matching end cap.

 

--Daniel

[3rdlakerobert]

Do you have any idea how long Sheaffer was improvising pens to clear out flattop parts? Did it continue right to the end of the Balance era in 1941? I noticed that Farmboy's photo shows a black half Balance with a teardrop clip cap.

[kirchh]

Do you have any idea how long Sheaffer was improvising pens to clear out flattop parts? Did it continue right to the end of the Balance era in 1941? I noticed that Farmboy's photo shows a black half Balance with a teardrop clip cap.

 

It's difficult to determine, but I will point out that, ironically, there turned out to be a low-level but steady demand for the flat top styles throughout the '30s, and in response, Sheaffer once again began manufacture of flat tops at some point likely in the mid-1930s and into WWII.

 

--Daniel

[Lazard 20]

Lazard,

 

... there are no Oversize tapers.

 

Having these diameters that would fit very roughly with your 11,4 mm, I do not know if special OS tapers would be required.

 

http://s7.postimg.org/jv01pje6z/Sheaffer_Oversize_OS_taper_quill_Lazard.jpg

Edited July 12, 2015 by Lazard 20

[Lazard 20]

These appear not to be convertibles, but rather an alternative construction method for pocket pens (some of the end caps are fused on), perhaps making use of turned back flat top stock in later examples.

 

--Daniel

 

But about these fused-on cases:

 

- Do we have 11.4 mm in diameter at the fusion line as our case or substantially more?

 

- Are barrel pin-level as our case?

 

- The fusión is just glued threadless or there are screw as our case?

 

- If the cut on barrel was made to be fused with a balance end, what need is there to manufacture two threads in Radite and to insert a metal screw as our case?

 

- Is not it too cost and unnecessary cost for a simple alternative construction?

 

- Why Sheaffer´S dedicated so much work unles they wanted to manufacture a convertible?

Edited July 12, 2015 by Lazard 20

[FredRydr]

 

But about these fused-on cases:

...

- Is not it too cost and unnecessary cost for a simple alternative construction?

 

- Why Sheaffer´S dedicated so much work unles they wanted to manufacture a convertible?

 

Good point. The cost of labor and machining would appear more than the material is worth. Perhaps it was a test of a market.

 

Fred

[Lazard 20]

 

Having these diameters that would fit very roughly with your 11,4 mm, I do not know if special OS tapers would be required.

 

http://s7.postimg.org/jv01pje6z/Sheaffer_Oversize_OS_taper_quill_Lazard.jpg

 

 

Brian, this one oversized quill of 11,8 mm diameter, 86,2 mm. long, "texture" and thread Sheaffer'S, of a friend of mine could fits even better in your oversize.

 

http://s17.postimg.org/84efvel8f/Sheaffer_over_sized_taper_quill_Lazard.jpg

Edited November 17, 2015 by Lazard 20

[kirchh]

Stickered examples of short-quilled OS Balance pens do not bear a desk pen (or convertible pen) model symbol.

 

--Daniel

[Lazard 20]

Stickered examples of short-quilled OS Balance pens do not bear a desk pen (or convertible pen) model symbol.

 

--Daniel

 

I agree with you, but that does not prevent these taper make me think.

[FarmBoy]

To bad I didn't collect Sheaffer when I had a dozen examples of these so called convertible pens. I think Pedro has the best of them now. I can assure everyone they were not 'shortened tapers' if it matters.