Jump to content

Question About Parker 51 Empire Cap Tarnish On It

lisantica

By lisantica
in Parker

 Share

Recommended Posts

lisantica Rare

lisantica

Posted
Posted

Hello,

 

I am preparing to sell some pens and this one will be for sale, but I was shocked when I saw that it has tarnish on it.

Does this seem like an authentic cap? I ask because I bought it second hand, so I was hoping some of you may know more about this pen.

Thank you.

Lisa

 

19182572601_462a7b45a7_z.jpg

19182572301_a766e47599_z.jpg

18991428308_44214c4141_z.jpg

~ Justifying pen purchases since 2013 ~

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 33
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • kirchh

    14

  • Matlock

    13

  • lisantica

    4

  • PAKMAN

    1

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

kirchh Antique

kirchh

Posted
Posted

That's not a vintage "Empire" cap Parker "51"; it's the modern Parker 51 SE, which I believe was issued in 2002. The cap is sterling silver with gold plating; you're seeing the silver migrate through the plating and then tarnishing.

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

Link to comment
Share on other sites
PAKMAN Ancient Artifact

PAKMAN

Posted
Posted

Yes a modern LE 51 SE. Check ebay for pricing, these actually go for lots more than vintage 51's.

PAKMAN

minibanner.gif                                    Vanness-world-final.png.c1b120b90855ce70a8fd70dd342ebc00.png

                         My Favorite Pen Restorer                                             My Favorite Pen Store

                                                                                                                                Vanness Pens - Selling Online!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kirchh Antique

kirchh

Posted
Posted

Yes a modern LE 51 SE. Check ebay for pricing, these actually go for lots more than vintage 51's.

 

...though they go for lots less than vintage "51" "Empire" pens...

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

Link to comment
Share on other sites
lisantica Rare

lisantica

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

I just posted it in the sale area here on FPN for $295…much less than I paid.

Thank you for the help, hopefully someone gets a deal.

Edited by lisantica

~ Justifying pen purchases since 2013 ~

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Matlock Collectors Item

Matlock

Posted
Posted (edited)

That's not a vintage "Empire" cap Parker "51"; it's the modern Parker 51 SE, which I believe was issued in 2002. The cap is sterling silver with gold plating; you're seeing the silver migrate through the plating and then tarnishing.

 

--Daniel

The cap is not Sterling Silver as it is not hallmarked. Only in the USA was it claimed to be silver. This claim was not made by Parker. As it was a UK made pen it would have to be hallmarked to be Sterling Silver. At best it is 'White Metal'.

Quote from a US advert by Sanford/Newell Rubbermaid. "...with all white metal cap in Empire State design...".

Be also aware that early pens in the series suffered from barrell cracking.

Edited by Matlock

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kirchh Antique

kirchh

Posted
Posted

The cap is not Sterling Silver as it is not hallmarked. Only in the USA was it claimed to be silver. This claim was not made by Parker. As it was a UK made pen it would have to be hallmarked to be Sterling Silver. At best it is 'White Metal'.

Quote from a US advert by Sanford/Newell Rubbermaid. "...with all white metal cap in Empire State design...".

Be also aware that early pens in the series suffered from barrell cracking.

 

You're thinking of the Vista Blue model. This one's black.

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Matlock Collectors Item

Matlock

Posted
Posted

 

You're thinking of the Vista Blue model. This one's black.

 

--Daniel

True, but I have heard of one black 51 SE that developed cracks.

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kirchh Antique

kirchh

Posted
Posted

True, but I have heard of one black 51 SE that developed cracks.

 

No, I was referring to your description of the cap.

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Matlock Collectors Item

Matlock

Posted
Posted

 

No, I was referring to your description of the cap.

 

--Daniel

I see. The only difference is that the black pen has gold plated highlights. The cap is still white metal.

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kirchh Antique

kirchh

Posted
Posted

I see. The only difference is that the black pen has gold plated highlights. The cap is still white metal.

Is it described as "white metal", or as "vermeil?

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Matlock Collectors Item

Matlock

Posted
Posted

Is it described as "white metal", or as "vermeil?

 

--Daniel

Depends which advert/announcement you read. One does describe it as "vermeil". However if it was real vermeil i.e. gold plated sterling silver, it would be described as vermeil and not as "vermeil". The fact that it is not hallmarked indicates that it is white metal. If you tried to sell it as Sterling Silver in the UK you would probably end up in The Tower on bread and water :) .

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kirchh Antique

kirchh

Posted
Posted

Depends which advert/announcement you read. One does describe it as "vermeil".

 

How do the other adverts/announcements describe the cap of the black pen?

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

Link to comment
Share on other sites
pajaro Museum Piece

pajaro

Posted
Posted

No wonder we declared our independence.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
lisantica Rare

lisantica

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I'm wondering now if I should drop the price. This one shows no cracking on the black barrel.

I have it listed here and auction site.

~ Justifying pen purchases since 2013 ~

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Matlock Collectors Item

Matlock

Posted
Posted

I'm wondering now if I should drop the price. This one shows no cracking on the black barrel.

I have it listed here and auction site.

No. Don't drop the price, they are great pens if no cracking is apparent.

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Matlock Collectors Item

Matlock

Posted
Posted

No wonder we declared our independence.

The law is very strict in the UK, and in several European countries especially France. If an item is not hallmarked it is illegal to describe it as silver, it must be marked as white metal. If Parker had decided to make the caps from silver they would have been hallmarked. In the USA silver items are normally marked as Sterling Silver and this is accepted in the UK providing they were not itended for sale in the UK in the first place.

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Matlock Collectors Item

Matlock

Posted
Posted

 

How do the other adverts/announcements describe the cap of the black pen?

 

--Daniel

Usually white metal with gold plated highlights. If something is described as "vermeil" that means that it is giving the impression of vermeil but is not real vermeil. Hence the saying something is "so and so in inverted commas", meaning it is not as it appears. The English language is very strange.

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kirchh Antique

kirchh

Posted
Posted

Usually white metal with gold plated highlights. If something is described as "vermeil" that means that it is giving the impression of vermeil but is not real vermeil. Hence the saying something is "so and so in inverted commas", meaning it is not as it appears. The English language is very strange.

 

Can you post some examples of adverts/announcements that describe the black pen's cap as white metal with gold plated highlights?

 

How are the sterling grid Sonnets marked for metal content?

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33554
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26728
    5. jar
      jar
      26101

  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      Links to web pages or articles about Chinese typesetting, signwriting, etc.

      By Shanghai Knife Dude · Posted

      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      Skeleton of a primer for a budding hobbyist

      By A Smug Dill · Posted

      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Skeleton of a primer for a budding hobbyist

      By adamselene · Posted

      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Skeleton of a primer for a budding hobbyist

      By A Smug Dill · Posted

      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      Skeleton of a primer for a budding hobbyist

      By adamselene · Posted

      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o

  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More

  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...