Buy The Nib, Not The Pen

[Chouffleur]

Which is a rewrite of this thought from Bo Bo Olson: "Chase the nib, not the make and model. You can buy all 51 variants and colors of a P-51....and end up with only 3 (F, M&B in nail) of the 45 or more nibs of various widths and flexes."

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/292028-had-i-but-known-my-most-painful-newbie-mistakes/?p=3380868

 

So what's your calculation? You see that [the reputable dealer of your choice] charges $25 for a specific nib you want. You go on eBay and see a pen you don't want with that nib on it. Maybe you're an Esterbrook SJ collector and this is a J. How much do you discount the used nature of the nib attached to the J? Assuming you see no cracks or other warning signs on the photos, what will your max bid be on this pen? For the sake of argument let's say that that free freight is included.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Chouffleur

[gordonhooker]

Actually I came to the conclusion as well - I have most of the pen bodies I want - plus my two special pens - now to start gathering nibs for my lamy pens.

[______Zaphod_Beeblebrox]

I agree and disagree.

 

I agree you should not buy a pen just because it is a "insert brand name here" but I disagree that the nib is the main thing.

 

The nib it just one factor in the equation that makes up the pen. I very much like Sailor nibs but I am not a fan of the light weight and small plastic pen bodies. I not sure how much I would have to spend to get the Sailor nib installed on a Brand X pen that is a solid Sterling Silver heavy weight?

 

Once I have the Sailor nib installed on Brand X pen body which is 4 times as heavy as the sailor pen it came for how will it react! Will it have all the same things I love about it or will the extra weight change what I love about it?

 

 

Just a few thoughts about the pen as a whole and not just the nib.

[Bold2013]

I'm still looking for a wet and shading nib around a fine width to use with ESSRI ink. I'm hoping my new vintage Aurora 88 will fill the gap.

[NinthSphere]

Depends on the nib. I put in a $36 bid at one point on a 9788 m flex. Prices for the individual nib are around 45+. If I could find the nib itself for $25, I'd do that. Generally speaking, my Estie cap is probably $40.

[ac12]

Well it depends...

If I am a collector, it changes considerably or completely.

 

If I am collecting Esterbrook pens, the nib is secondary to the body. I want the specific model/color body. Secondarily I may want specific nibs. Then again you could be an Esterbook NIB collector, rather than a pen collector, in which case you would be after the nib.

 

Similarly for the Parker 45, or a variety of other pens, I am after the body, not the nib. I have pens in my collection with B nibs, and I do NOT use a B nib. I was after the PEN, not the nib.

 

It is ONLY if you write with the pen, that the nib comes into the picture.

 

In your example, it would depend on the specific nib. If the nib alone sells for $25, I might offer $30 or 35 for the pen. I would then sell the pen with a different nib, keeping the nib that was originally on the pen. Or I might scavenge the pen for "parts" to fix other pens.

[Buzz_130]

Are you a collector, user, or both?

 

If you are a collector, then the body, make, and nib all play an important factor in the buying decision. Some nibs are rare and will drive the value of a collection up. Other bodies are rare and desirable, regardless of the nib.

 

If you are a user, then the nib choice starts to weigh more heavily into the equation. I only have one pen with a flex nib (Waterman 52). I enjoy this pen a great deal for its historical value, a nice width, and a flex nib to explore. But the majority of my writing requires quick printing or cursive, long writing sessions, or rapid-fire notes. I don't find a flex nib useful for this purposes, so chasing the nib for the various classification of flex doesn't help me as a user.

 

If you enjoy the Esterbrook J series of pens, then you can certainly go after rare or desirable nibs. The effortless change between different pen bodies makes Estie collection and using simply fun! I've grown to watch both the pen body and the nib for Esties, knowing that I can make changes and "build" my own favorite. Of course, there's also many sales on boxes of Estie nibs to meet your writing needs!

 

Buzz

[Chouffleur]

Are you a collector, user, or both?

 

If you are a collector, then the body, make, and nib all play an important factor in the buying decision. Some nibs are rare and will drive the value of a collection up. Other bodies are rare and desirable, regardless of the nib.

 

If you are a user, then the nib choice starts to weigh more heavily into the equation. I only have one pen with a flex nib (Waterman 52). I enjoy this pen a great deal for its historical value, a nice width, and a flex nib to explore. But the majority of my writing requires quick printing or cursive, long writing sessions, or rapid-fire notes. I don't find a flex nib useful for this purposes, so chasing the nib for the various classification of flex doesn't help me as a user.

 

If you enjoy the Esterbrook J series of pens, then you can certainly go after rare or desirable nibs. The effortless change between different pen bodies makes Estie collection and using simply fun! I've grown to watch both the pen body and the nib for Esties, knowing that I can make changes and "build" my own favorite. Of course, there's also many sales on boxes of Estie nibs to meet your writing needs!

 

Buzz

More of a user than a collector. I am still in the single digits on pens and will likely stay there (famous last words). I am an Estie person (LJ/Icicle) so there will probably be the occasional new body but as you suggest nibs are becoming more interesting to me.

[ethernautrix]

If you don't care so much about what the pen looks like or filling system, then by all means, choose by the nib.

 

I look at the pen overall first. The nib is the easiest part to change.

 

Having said that, I have a couple of vintage German pens that aren't much to look at, but they have fabulous semi-flex steel nibs. I do like the way they look, even though they are beat-up, but I don't use them nearly as much as I as I use my favorite pens (favorite because of how they look and how they write, both).

[pajaro]

If you don't care so much about what the pen looks like or filling system, then by all means, choose by the nib.

 

I look at the pen overall first. The nib is the easiest part to change.

 

Having said that, I have a couple of vintage German pens that aren't much to look at, but they have fabulous semi-flex steel nibs. I do like the way they look, even though they are beat-up, but I don't use them nearly as much as I as I use my favorite pens (favorite because of how they look and how they write, both).

 

I tend to agree with this idea. The whole package is important to me. You can change the nib, whether it be a unit you unscrew from the section or a friction fit nib. I have changed both to get the desired nib into the pen I wanted it in.

 

Eventually I came to the conclusion that, no matter how good most nibs might be, if the pen is not a favorite I won't use it, and the pen will remain in storage. Many pens I once liked I don't use any more. Actually the pens I use most are ones I bought thirty to forty-five years ago. I made good choices before joining here.

[kazoolaw]

My thought is that "Chase the nib not..." Is a reaction to pens that seem to be made to look at only, and which cross over the boundary of what someone considers good taste..

 

My preference is to have an excellent nib in a pen which I find attractive as well. "Attractive" is a relative term, which on any given day might range from a sterling overlay to a BHR Onoto with neither clip nor cap band, or a simple 51 with its hooded nib and utilitarian cap and barrel.

 

gary

[ac12]

Actually I think it refers to those who are looking for a flex nib.

 

Since I primarily write with nails, one nail pretty much writes like another nail.

 

However, on pens where it is difficult/expensive to change the nib, then it also makes sense, in a different way. I would not buy a pen with a B nib when I want a F or XF nib. I recently replaced the OB nib on my Lamy 26P with a F nib. I was lucky to have been able to find a F nib, or that pen would be unusable to me with the OB nib.

Edited June 26, 2015 by ac12

[Bo Bo Olson]

First what nib widths do you have and in what flex rates?

 

What are you missing?

 

What nib does the pen offer?

 

There are late '40's-early '50's Sheaffer Snorkel made a few nibs that are semi-flex.

I of course wanted a Admiral or President in Saratoga green with such a nib. They are I believe are rare.

Their F nib from then is like an modern EF or Japanese F. I don't know much about the Sheaffer nibs of the time. I would think they would also have regular flex and nail.

My Burgundy Snorkel is from Australia, and to my surprise is a 'flexi'/maxi-flex Factory BB stub.

 

I have a BB stub....a '38-40 Vac with a Canadian '36 nail nib. Sigh I must admit I was after the pen. I knew the Vac would be a nail....or thought so. The nib made me chase it more than other Vac's. Again, I'm not as up on American pens as German.

 

I do know the English Sheaffer and Parkers from the '50's had semi-flex where Stateside Parker did not, being nails and Stubs. Swan was still making pens with nibs with various rates of flex in England. Sheaffer and Parker had to make nibs with a bit of flex to stay in the market.

 

Nail stubs or CI's are nails answer to the the stubbish German nibs with some flex of the late '40s-65.

 

So you would like a semi-flex nib. You collect Parker. You would chase the nib with an English Parker Jr. Doufold.

 

I was very happy and surprised, when I put that nib to my thumb nail at a flea market. Yes, I have that flex in that width. I did not have it in Parker. I "chased the nib", had it been a nail I'd not bought it.

I have my five nails EF, F, M, B, BB....well 7-8, but a few are on my think to sell list.

Even though I'm not into EF much; I have them in five flexes....there actually I use nail or regular flex for editing than say a nib with more flex. I'm still a tad Heavy Handed.

My Waterman Superflex can go EF-XXF....but it takes me a lot of effort to write that light. It tends to write a F for me mostly. It an go BBB too but I strive not to take it over BB. I don't want to spring the nib.

 

Such a 'list' is something to find in all the flex rates....except Superflex.....

 

I'm not sure if a BB in Wet Noodles are needed. Could be something to keep one's eye open. Most want skinny that opens wide not 'fat' that can't open as wide. Can flex at that rate though. In case you are after ease of flex and not width, in the case of wide Wet Noodles.

I have a couple of Wet Noodles and some dip pens, but my Hand is not good enough for me to chase those nibs.

 

I do suggest working your way up the flex ladder, and read the article on Richard Binder's site on how easy it is to spring a nib.

 

Or you have a list of nib widths and flexes that you wish. If it is a good top of the line pen, why not buy it if it also matches your missing nib?

 

That it is the exact make, model or color you wish.....takes lots more luck, or you can get lucky sometime with in the next decade. In the mean time you have the nib, you have a good solid well balanced pen. Sooner or later you can upgrade to the exact pen, with the exact same nib.

A small grail pen. In the meanwhile you can be writing with a missing nib.

 

Stub can be had in nail or a '50's-65 Pelikan semi&maxi-semi-flex. Mostly though Stub and CI are nails. I don't have the eyes for a EF in Stub, CI or OEF in nibs with more flex.

If you do fine.

Do you need 5 stubs and 5 CI's covering the widths? I doubt it. You can alternate, and save money.

 

EF, F, M, B, BB...of course you need one of each in the following.

Nail, semi-nail (maybe?), true regular flex, (Springy offered seldom...modern MB and Falcon; more tine bend than tine spread of 2 X...IMO can be skipped in semi-flex offers more.), not the 3 X of regular flex, semi-flex or 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex.

 

Superflex: spreads the tines 4-5-6 or even 7 X a light down stroke.

Easy full Flex, Wet noodle, Weak Kneed Wet Noodle.

 

There was a good post of something Waterman said; being then one of the better pens with different rates of flex in the '30's, that recommend, a lot less flex width than what many now push the nib too.

 

It seems it was ease of flex they were after not width of flex. It's a bit odd to our modern 'thought'.

We seem to have misinterpreted the original use.

 

The guys who can really write over in Penman are more interested in the thin line and fast snap back of the nib more than how wide can he spread a nib.

 

Many folks have not drilled out a Knock Out block, to swap nibs, so have to buy the pen and the missing nib....or the missing nib and the pen.

Dam .....I chased the nib in a pen, instead of chased the nib for the Knock Out block.

I couldn't see over the edge of my box .....laziness will do that for you.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Bo Bo Olson

[redisburning]

couldnt agree less.

 

I can fix a nib. I cant fix a poorly made pen.

[Bklyn]

Actually I came to the conclusion as well - I have most of the pen bodies I want - plus my two special pens - now to start gathering nibs for my lamy pens.

This makes sense.

[EricaTX]

It depends - because some pens come with some wonderful nibs.

 

On the other hand, I bought a super cheap pen on eBay for maybe $6 - because I loved the unique barrel. The nib, however, wasn't good. Easy solution - I actually took it to a nibmeister who ground it to perfection. Total cost for the pen and grinding: $36. For a wonderful writing utensil.

[Bklyn]

Actually I think it refers to those who are looking for a flex nib.

 

Since I primarily write with nails, one nail pretty much writes like another nail.

 

However, on pens where it is difficult/expensive to change the nib, then it also makes sense, in a different way. I would not buy a pen with a B nib when I want a F or XF nib. I recently replaced the OB nib on my Lamy 26P with a F nib. I was lucky to have been able to find a F nib, or that pen would be unusable to me with the OB nib.

I write with nails as well. I love a great nib in a body that is tool oriented and fits my hand.

[Bklyn]

First what nib widths do you have and in what flex rates?

 

What are you missing?

 

What nib does the pen offer?

 

There are late '40's-early '50's Sheaffer Snorkel made a few nibs that are semi-flex.

I of course wanted a Admiral or President in Saratoga green with such a nib. They are I believe are rare.

Their F nib from then is like an modern EF or Japanese F. I don't know much about the Sheaffer nibs of the time. I would think they would also have regular flex and nail.

My Burgundy Snorkel is from Australia, and to my surprise is a 'flexi'/maxi-flex Factory BB stub.

 

I have a BB stub....a '38-40 Vac with a Canadian '36 nail nib. Sigh I must admit I was after the pen. I knew the Vac would be a nail....or thought so. The nib made me chase it more than other Vac's. Again, I'm not as up on American pens as German.

 

I do know the English Sheaffer and Parkers from the '50's had semi-flex where Stateside Parker did not, being nails and Stubs. Swan was still making pens with nibs with various rates of flex in England. Sheaffer and Parker had to make nibs with a bit of flex to stay in the market.

 

Nail stubs or CI's are nails answer to the the stubbish German nibs with some flex of the late '40s-65.

 

So you would like a semi-flex nib. You collect Parker. You would chase the nib with an English Parker Jr. Doufold.

 

I was very happy and surprised, when I put that nib to my thumb nail at a flea market. Yes, I have that flex in that width. I did not have it in Parker. I "chased the nib", had it been a nail I'd not bought it.

I have my five nails EF, F, M, B, BB....well 7-8, but a few are on my think to sell list.

Even though I'm not into EF much; I have them in five flexes....there actually I use nail or regular flex for editing than say a nib with more flex. I'm still a tad Heavy Handed.

My Waterman Superflex can go EF-XXF....but it takes me a lot of effort to write that light. It tends to write a F for me mostly. It an go BBB too but I strive not to take it over BB. I don't want to spring the nib.

 

Such a 'list' is something to find in all the flex rates....except Superflex.....

 

I'm not sure if a BB in Wet Noodles are needed. Could be something to keep one's eye open. Most want skinny that opens wide not 'fat' that can't open as wide. Can flex at that rate though. In case you are after ease of flex and not width, in the case of wide Wet Noodles.

I have a couple of Wet Noodles and some dip pens, but my Hand is not good enough for me to chase those nibs.

 

I do suggest working your way up the flex ladder, and read the article on Richard Binder's site on how easy it is to spring a nib.

 

Or you have a list of nib widths and flexes that you wish. If it is a good top of the line pen, why not buy it if it also matches your missing nib?

 

That it is the exact make, model or color you wish.....takes lots more luck, or you can get lucky sometime with in the next decade. In the mean time you have the nib, you have a good solid well balanced pen. Sooner or later you can upgrade to the exact pen, with the exact same nib.

A small grail pen. In the meanwhile you can be writing with a missing nib.

 

Stub can be had in nail or a '50's-65 Pelikan semi&maxi-semi-flex. Mostly though Stub and CI are nails. I don't have the eyes for a EF in Stub, CI or OEF in nibs with more flex.

If you do fine.

Do you need 5 stubs and 5 CI's covering the widths? I doubt it. You can alternate, and save money.

 

EF, F, M, B, BB...of course you need one of each in the following.

Nail, semi-nail (maybe?), true regular flex, (Springy offered seldom...modern MB and Falcon; more tine bend than tine spread of 2 X...IMO can be skipped in semi-flex offers more.), not the 3 X of regular flex, semi-flex or 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex.

 

Superflex: spreads the tines 4-5-6 or even 7 X a light down stroke.

Easy full Flex, Wet noodle, Weak Kneed Wet Noodle.

 

There was a good post of something Waterman said; being then one of the better pens with different rates of flex in the '30's, that recommend, a lot less flex width than what many now push the nib too.

 

It seems it was ease of flex they were after not width of flex. It's a bit odd to our modern 'thought'.

We seem to have misinterpreted the original use.

 

The guys who can really write over in Penman are more interested in the thin line and fast snap back of the nib more than how wide can he spread a nib.

 

Many folks have not drilled out a Knock Out block, to swap nibs, so have to buy the pen and the missing nib....or the missing nib and the pen.

Dam .....I chased the nib in a pen, instead of chased the nib for the Knock Out block.

I couldn't see over the edge of my box .....laziness will do that for you.

GREAT information/insight. Thanks

[gordonhooker]

It depends - because some pens come with some wonderful nibs.

 

On the other hand, I bought a super cheap pen on eBay for maybe $6 - because I loved the unique barrel. The nib, however, wasn't good. Easy solution - I actually took it to a nibmeister who ground it to perfection. Total cost for the pen and grinding: $36. For a wonderful writing utensil.

 

Spot on - I will remember that, now to find out if I can find a good nibmeister in Brisbane Australia.

Edited June 27, 2015 by GordonOZ

[inkstainedruth]

It depends - because some pens come with some wonderful nibs.

 

On the other hand, I bought a super cheap pen on eBay for maybe $6 - because I loved the unique barrel. The nib, however, wasn't good. Easy solution - I actually took it to a nibmeister who ground it to perfection. Total cost for the pen and grinding: $36. For a wonderful writing utensil.

And recently i've had the opposite experience -- I picked up a no-name lever filler for $20 a couple of weeks ago simply *because* of the nib -- a 14K music nib! The tines looked slightly off, but I figure I'll take it around to the nib meisters at the next pen show I go to, just to get some more expert opinions as to the condition. But finding a music nib in the wild on *any* pen pretty much shocked me to begin with: and to have that nice a nib on some unknown brand pen just made me have to pick my jaw up off the floor (especially since the guy in the store had first told me he didn't think he had ANY pens at the time). Good thing I figured it was a small enough store that I could poke around a bit in general before the place closed for the day....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth