Database Of Waterman 20 Sold On E-bay

[antoniosz]

I have been watching Waterman 20s sold on ebay and posting a report here

but it was a post that started as a poll and it is now locked. So I am restarting one here as another Waterman 20 is on e-bay.

 

Two intro points for those that are unfamiliar with this pen and/or never show this post before. The Waterman 20 was the

largest pen made by Waterman (12->13->14->15->16->18->20) in hard rubber (black or red) with and without overlay.

It is a pen in the $1-2K value. I have followed them on ebay just because I can not buy them No, seriously, I like to study the

pattents of auctions as they teach us a lot about pricing in the non-efficient FP market

 

So here is the database together with the new item. I will update this post as these pens show up on ebay.

The link cease to function after a while but I will keep them here.

 

 

1. July 05 6547967329 $2126.00 Seller claims "pristine" and has nice photos

 

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2. 2005 6544727017 $785.00 - This one was used - Cap crack

 

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3. 2005 6568217094 $1472.00 Seller says Pristine

 

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4. December 05 6585813117. $1,225.00 Seller says Pristine

 

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5. February 01, 2006 6600113469 1,985.00 slip cap/ no clip/smooth

 

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6. February 24, 2006 6606558844. $2,462.00 Same buyer for all the last 5 pens

 

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7. March 12, 2006 6611868510

$566.99 ... The seller stated: "The pen does have one largish (1.3 cm X 0.4 cm) chip at base of the cap, and another much tinier chip (3mm X 1mm) along the base of the cap, approximately 6mm to the left of the larger chip ... typical fading ... one very tiny (1mm X 1mm) little surface ding... The markings on the side and end of the barrel are somewhat weak....

 

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8. March 15, 2006 6612067709 BCHR barrel and section went with no bid at $449. Smooth barrel.

 

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9. May 12, 2006 6627607619 One with no nib and a crack. went for $499.

 

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10. Sept. 29, 2006 180031463045

"NOS" with clip. Seller says: inked, mint <!--emo&:blink:--><!--endemo--> went for $2,433 and 22.5% premium in a live auction.

 

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11. Oct. 2006 190033669466 RHR Waterman 20 (the first RHR within the time I have been following these) in 1,294.00

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12. March 2007, 130093061091 A nib for a 20 was offered with a starting bid of $1K and BIN $1.2K with no takers.

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13. April 2007 190100017198. Well known seller. Nice pictures. A slight cosmetic defect on the cap. It was at $1,025 with few more days to go. It is no more - as it was pulled out Clip/Chased.

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14. April 2007 200102115135. Here is another one that finished US $2,253.00 same buyer as 1-6 . Slip cap/Clip/Chased

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15. May 2007 No on e-bay but on the Green Board (of PT). This is a first one. I dont think that such a pen was ever offered before on the boards. The pen is priced at $1375 and looks good except the imprint which is faint. Slip cap/clip/smooth.

Edited May 19, 2007 by antoniosz

[George]

Thanks for the database. I saw the 20 on ebay, fairly nice pen. I hope to start buying good pens like that in the future.

[Roz]

Would people be interested in contributing to an online ebay auction 'price guide' that would contain this kind of information? I'm certainly happy to set one up - I have already got a lot of code to do something similar, but the question is whether people would help enter the data - e.g. if they are working out the price for a pen they'd like, would they be keen to add any ended auctions they'd been watching

 

*Edit*

 

Maybe someone else has already done this, although it's slightly different.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...=0entry269586

Edited April 9, 2007 by Roz

[antoniosz]

I added a Waterman 20 that was just posted on PT. This is the first one that I have seen offered on the boards

[antoniosz]

A sighting of an interesting #20 safety

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=290211591967

[antoniosz]

A sighting of an interesting #20 safety

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=290211591967

 

FIrst 20 safety I have seen on ebay for few years. It went for $4,550

[langere]

That's an amazing price. Is it really work that? - Of course, that's something you're trying to evaluate...

 

Erick

[ilubiano]

That's an amazing price. Is it really work that? - Of course, that's something you're trying to evaluate...

 

Erick

 

 

Maybe it isn't really worth that much, but it's eBay. Someone maybe just absolutely HAD to have it, and that's what drove up the price. Then again, it might very well be worth that price. We may never know.

[antoniosz]

That's an amazing price. Is it really work that? - Of course, that's something you're trying to evaluate...

 

Erick

 

 

Maybe it isn't really worth that much, but it's eBay. Someone maybe just absolutely HAD to have it, and that's what drove up the price. Then again, it might very well be worth that price. We may never know.

 

It appears to be a fair price. With the regular 20 in the 1.5-2K range, and extrapolation from other sizes the safety should be higher by a factor of 2x from the eydropper. So... it looks OK.

[antoniosz]

OK. RRHR Waterman 20 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=330292384366

US $1,625.00 3 days before the end. Too bad that we can not see the bidders

[antoniosz]

OK. RRHR Waterman 20 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=330292384366

US $1,625.00 3 days before the end. Too bad that we can not see the bidders

Closed at $5,427.00

 

 

[curioti]

OK. RRHR Waterman 20 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=330292384366

US $1,625.00 3 days before the end. Too bad that we can not see the bidders

Closed at $5,427.00

 

Good Lord! That is a lot of money for a RHR pen of any kind. I sm sincerely hoping that a more used, black model is obtainable for under $2k. I desperately want one of these, but can't fathom this price. Now, if it had an overlay, well then I would send my children to work in the coal mines to pay for it....

[Johnny Appleseed]

Too bad that we can not see the bidders

 

I know - would be interesting to see if the Nibbler got it.

 

John

 

[antoniosz]

Ok. Not a 20. In the opposite end. Waterman miniature:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=300321469364

$1550

 

[George]

One sold about 3 weeks ago for roughly $1200, Chased with a German Silver clip, nice nib, and a crack in the cap. One also just went on ebay for $700 BIN, with a seemingly better nib. Almost identical to the previous except a slightly later nib, and a chrome plated clip. Looks to be a nice flexy one with longer tines than

the usual 10 nibs.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250520986605&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

Regards

George

Edited November 1, 2009 by George

[George]

Also, does anyone know the original price of the 20? I can't find any 20's, only 10 nib replacements.

 

George

[antoniosz]

A one here

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320450477408

went for US $1,246.00 - despite the fact that the large cap band hides a crack (which the seller most probably knew and tried to be silent about, until he was called by a person who asked this question.

[antoniosz]

Another one. This is a cardinal red for US $4,850.00, despite the suspicion that there may be a crack in the cap and the not so great pictures.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380193774942

 

Extensive questions and dialogs etc. I post them here as the item will disappear.

They are quite educational for ebay newbies.

Look at the pathetic lowball offer of $350. But also they helpful comments of people who just offer advise.

 

"Question & Answer Answered"

 

Q: You mention a scratch on the cap. Are you sure this isn't a hairline crack. This is important as such damage greatly reduces value. Jan-09-10

A: Hi, I'm saying scratch because it is curved against the grain. I say scratch ot mfg flaw. Ken

Q: Hello,May I ask you? I can not see by your photos. So please let me know. Is the part under the nib red colour or black? Thanks. Regards Jan-09-10

A: HI, what I'm calling orange, I guess was red orig but has faded. Hope this helps. Ken

Q: Hello, could you tell me why the pen so rare ,thank you very much. Jan-09-10

A: Hi scroll down on auction. I have a few coments from people that know. Ken

Q: Hi Just to let you know, this pen is the largest size Waterman's ever made. Very rare in red Hard Rubber. Very often the cap is broken, or has hard to see hairline cracks running from the base of the cap. If this one has a perfect cap with NO cracks at all ( check with a loupe...) than it is a VERY rare Waterman's, and price should increase, even if the color of the section looks stained. I hope this helps, Best, John Jan-09-10

A: Hi John, thanks, I received this info from a few helpful ebayer. Ken

Q: are there any cracks in the rubber? Jan-06-10

A: HI, you folks have made me afraid to touch it. No cracks, I found a small scratch or mfg flaw in the cover but I'm not about to try to clean it. Ken

Q: Ken, You had asked someone else why the pen is so rare? The pen is the largest Waterman size made the #20 with #10 nib. These pens are quite rare and were made in black rubber and red rubber. You might find 1 red rubber pen for every 100 in black you might find, and you might a few black ones up on ebay each year. I'd say the pen is as worth as much as a black hard rubber model with metal filigree which would put it in the 8-12K range. While the pen is well beyond my budget it will be fun to watch. Best of luck with the auction, you have a great piece for sale! Jan-05-10

A: Hi, thanks for the info. Ken

Q: Hello Would you have an Ebay buy it now option on this pen ? I would pay up to 1000 USD Please let me know Thanks Jan-05-10

A: HI, no buy it now. Ken

Q: do you mind if i made good best buy offer to purchase . ? Jan-03-10

A: Hi, sorry no buy it now. Ken

Q: Hello again, I wrote to you a minute ago asking you about changing this to a buy it now. This a good Waterman pen and you will most likely get numerous requests and offers to change this to a buy it now. Unless and offer is over $2000, don't take it. I think that you will do better if you let it run its course as an auction. If you decide to accept an offer and change it to a buy it now, I would like to make an offer also. Thank you and good luck with it. Jan-03-10

A: Hi, thanks for the info, I will let the auction run its course. Can you email me and tell me why so rare?. Thanks, Ken

Q: Would you be interested in accepting and offer to change this to a buy it now? Thank you. Jan-03-10

A: Hi, sorry no buy it now. Ken

Q: I had emailed you earlier this evening. I will be going to sleep soon. This pen is worth thousands of dollars. Please don't make any deal without talking to me. Thanks and congratulations on the great find. I will be awake until midnight and up at 8a.m. tomorrow, eastern time. I can also meet you to finalize if we can get a deal done. I am 130 miles from you. Jan-03-10

A: Hi, thanks for the info, no buy it now. Ken

Q: would you consider a buy it now for, an amount in exxcess of $3000? Jan-03-10

A: Hi, sorry no buy it now. Ken

Q: would you do a buy now for 350.00 Jan-03-10

A: Hi, sorry, no buy it now. Ken"

Edited January 10, 2010 by antoniosz

[iveyman]

What is the current asking price for a Waterman 20 with #10 nib these days, on eBay or outside of eBay? It is not easy to find such a pen especially a non-black, mottled hard rubber one. Any thoughts or info. on this? I may want to look for a Waterman Patrician Turquoise pen with #8 nib if Waterman 20 turns out to be impossible to find. I already have a Waterman Patrician Moss Agate pen with a lovely nib.

Edited May 10, 2018 by iveyman

[Left FPN]

$5k in 2010.

 

The offer of $350 made me chuckle. Ken must have thought hard on the $3k but stuck to his No BIN for good reason.

 

I think I have only seen one 20/10 on eBay but did not see the outcome.