'sumgai'

[Cryptos]

Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware

 

Caveat venditor - let the seller beware

 

As someone pointed out earlier, this is the age of the internet, so it is ironic that someone asked a question on Latin and nobody appears to have Googled it. However, you shouldn't believe everything you read on the interwebs and so...

 

Caveat lector!

[AAAndrew]

Licker beware? It can't be "Beware of liquor".

 

(Ducking and running while trying not to spill his Manhattan.)

[Medsen Fey]

There probably is Karma at work because I don't think I've ever found a Sumgai deal on a pen, but if one presented itself I would gladly accept it without question or guilt. Probably why I've never gotten one.

[sidthecat]

I've taken ruthless advantage, once or twice, of knowing slightly more than the vendor. I've also, once or twice, let a vendor know what he really had.

 

Balance.

[Runnin_Ute]

The pen I have that is the closest thing to a sumgai deal I have gotten is my Parker 45 Flighter. Ebay transaction, It was represented by the seller as a late 60's model with a gold plated steel nib. Not a lot of action on the auction. In looking at the photos of the nib, the color of the nib didn't look right for a plated nib - I suspected 14k. Once I received I took the nib out and checked and low and behold I was right!. At $15.50 + shipping if this hadn't been a Flighter it would have been nothing extraordinary. At the time I was seeing comparable Flighters go for double and triple what I paid with a 14k nib. (Heck I paid more for a Made in Spain P45 from a Spanish seller - before shipping some months later. With a steel nib!)

 

As it is, not only did I get a nice pen in good shape with a 14k nib, I got a pen pal out of the deal too! He was thinning his collection, apparently had more than one Flighter, (or that was the impression I got) thought that this one was a plated nib (didn't double check apparently) He was happy for my good luck when I wrote him a note advising him of my good fortune. I got a good deal, don't feel bad, have a good relationship with that seller. In that particular case, everyone came out a winner. Would he have liked to gotten more for the pen? I am sure he would, but like many who put things on ebay, he understood what the risks were I am sure. (heavier traffic to listing usually equals a somewhat higher price)

 

The other pen that if not a sumgai, may come close is my Pelikan M150 - currently they are going for $75-$110+ on ebay. Not sure what they were bringing at auction when I got mine in Jan 2014, but I paid $46 shipped.

[ISW_Kaputnik]

I've gotten some real bargains on vintage pens and felt no particular guilt. I've certainly never told a seller that he was asking too little, but then, I've never run into an extreme case such as, for example, someone selling a pristine Waterman 52 for a buy-it-now price of $10 on eBay.

 

I do like to ask myself the following, though. Suppose my neighbor, who I like, has a garage sale, and she is selling a bunch of old pens for 50¢ each. Among these are some which would bring anywhere from $10 to $100 on eBay. Wouldn't I tell her, and offer her more than she was asking? At what price point would I no longer do that? If she were offering a $50 pen for $5? $10? $25?

 

As I said, it has never come up. I have yet to find a pen that I wanted at a local flea market, let alone tag sale or garage sale. But if I would (hypothetically) save my neighbor from herself, don't I owe the same level of honesty to a stranger? If not, why not? After all, the stranger is somebody's neighbor too.

[Larry Barrieau]

This is a good thought. Certainly if it's someone I knew and liked I would tell them what I know about the pen. It's not just a transaction at that point,it's a personal matter. We all treat people who are close to us better (hopefully), than strangers. That's just the way it is.

[rwilsonedn]

This is a good thought. Certainly if it's someone I knew and liked I would tell them what I know about the pen. It's not just a transaction at that point,it's a personal matter. We all treat people who are close to us better (hopefully), than strangers. That's just the way it is.

 

I suppose many ethicists would argue that that's not just the way it is, that is a personal choice about how it will be this time. They might propose that how we treat friends should be a model for how we treat strangers. Or that we treat strangers as we would want to be treated.

In this case the golden rule conflicts with a powerful human instinct for hunting and gathering. What we do comes down to our ability at self-restraint.

ron

[tomgartin]

Paying more than requested by the seller? I don't think it's any kind of ethical or moral obligation for the buyer, but it's a nice thing to do. Sometimes people do nice things when they are able and feel like it, but that doesn't mean taking a "sumgai" deal is a violation of etiquette or ethics.

[Larry Barrieau]

Ron I see where you're coming from but I love my family and close friends more than strangers so I treat them better.

[thatotherguy1]

I've been thinking about this for a bit and I've come to the conclusion that it really depends on the situation. Late last year, I was Sumgai. I found a new in box with paperwork Eversharp Slim Ventura set from the inaugural year or the year after (the paperwork said "New Slim Ventura")- that'd be 1953 or '54 by my research- in sterling silver. The pen had a shiny new EF nib and the repeating pencil still had what I believe to be the original Eversharp square lead in the magazine. The guy was asking $3 for it. I later looked it up and found out that they go for considerably more than that, but I don't feel bad about the deal. I paid what the guy asked for it, no haggling, and he was running an antiques shop- he could have spent a few minutes looking at the completed listings on fleabay for the sets. I know he knew it was sterling silver- he had written it on the price tag- so he should have known that the set was worth something at least. If I so chose, I could probably sell the barrels for scrap silver and made more than $3 from it.

 

However, if it was someone at a yard sale that didn't really have more stationery, I would be more inclined to tell them that they were underselling themselves because they might not have thought it was worth looking into- it is a pen, after all.

 

Point being, for me, if the person doesn't seem like someone that would bother to look up values on an ancient pen and pencil set, I'll feel guilty about paying under fair market value for it. If, on the other hand, the person sells antiques and such for a living, they should know better than to put a vintage sterling silver pen and pencil set with the box and paperwork on sale for $3.

 

All IMHO, of course.

[inkstainedruth]

I was in an antiques mall today. Went for a drive and sort of happened onto the place by chance (well, I knew of the place, and it was on my list of "if I happen to be in the vicinity", but I was actually trying to find a *different* place -- which turned out to be closed; so much for the big wooden sign on the side of the road saying "You missed us -- we're two miles back"...). And found the other place first.

It really didn't look like much from the outside (and I wasn't even sure it was open). But it was deceptive -- a LOT bigger on the insides. Ended up with a nice little black Estie SJ with a 9128 nib. After I paid I got talking a bit with the people in the store and they pointed out another booth with some pens and pencils in a can which I had overlooked. There were several more Esties; but they were all ten bucks more (had been $20 more!) and they didn't have *nearly* as interesting nibs on them; plus one red SJ was missing the cap jewel entirely. I thought briefly about the blue SJ, since it was the darker blue mackerel color. But the nib (forget what but it was either the 1554 or a 2xxx I already had). Even the red one had a nib I already had. So, while it wasn't a sumgai purchase, it certainly was better than the pens I passed on. And $10 cheaper than the green SJ with a 9128 nib I got on Ebay a couple of years ago.

And these were *literally* booths across the aisle from each other. Go figure.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth