Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies






Photo

Desiderata Pen Vs. Everyday Usage Specialty Feed

desiderata

15 replies to this topic

#1 bardiir

bardiir

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 11 May 2015 - 05:38

I just wanted to share a little experimentation thingy I worked on the last few days. A month or two back I got my Desiderata pen. Really great thing, except for everyday use, tossing it in the bag would lead to leakage quite rapidly when it ended up nib down. Writing when inkflow was there was ok, sometimes running dry depending on the ink (Rohrer & Klinger Salix worked pretty bad for me, Sailor Sei-Boku pretty good). But storing it nib up for some time did allow the ink to flow back out of the feed which then dried down pretty rapidly thus having a hard start or a leak every time.

 

Well... introducing my 3D printer 2 Weeks ago I started with FreeCAD and a few days ago with OpenSCAD, especially OpenSCAD made it very easy to come up with a new feed design especially for flex pens.

 

My current iteration:

feed_whole.png

 

It has a lot of fins underneath the nib, storing a ton of ink underneath the nib. All of the ink in the fins is exempt from gravitation due to capillary action, this does NOT hard start ever again. But this wasn't the only design goal of this. Another thing noticeable is there is a slit along most of the way of the ink channel, within the nib there is an ink reservoir. This nib stores a whopping 0.2-0.3ml of ink, within the feed body, underneath the nib and in the channel throughout the nib. The channel in the middle does empty back into the pen mostly when turning it upside down, but everything is back in a few seconds, you cant even flex-write the ink from the fins out fast enough to get a dry writing this way. What this does is basically give the ink a 0.3x20mm width of space to enter the gap between the nib and feed:

 

feed_cross.png

 

And it does allow air to travel back through another channel as the ink travels down in parallel. Pretty much like modern feeds do it with the venting hole, I just placed it within the feed instead of the bottom as a design with the venting hole on the bottom would probably mean a lot of leaks with this width of ink channel.

 

Btw: it doesn't leak nib down. But it still looses ink when shaken, I'm still working on that as I do like to drop my pen wrap into my bag and my bag does get the occassinal shaking too when i put it on my back or on the floor.

 

Current iteration printed in reality:

IMG_1059.JPG


Edited by bardiir, 11 May 2015 - 07:51.

My Pens/Nibs (inked/active): Lamy Studio/Vista/Joy (XXF slight-flex custom | 14k EF | EF | F | 14k M | M | B | 14k 1.1 custom | 1.1 | 1.5 | 1.9), TWSBI Diamond 580 (F | Pendleton BadBoy | Zebra G | F.P.R. semi-flex), Pilot Falcon EF, Penkala Vintage 14k semi-flex, Pilot Parallel (2.4 | 3.8 | 6.0)

I'm still looking for help/data/supporters/sponsors for my Ink Database - It already contains over 900 Inks but is still low on data about the inks except on the Inks I got myself or where I found nice data sheets. So Im looking for these: InkSamples mailed to me, Permissions to use InkReviews - preferable by people who have a lot of InkReviews online, InkReviews mailed to me so I can scan them, Sponsors that will help me to finance InkSamples, People willing to trade InkSamples (list of available Inks from me is available via PM request - please include available Inks)


Sponsored Content

#2 pavoni

pavoni

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,495 posts
  • Location:Cheshire, England
  • Flag:

Posted 11 May 2015 - 08:04

Great work bardiir.  Please keep us updated on your progress. :thumbup: 

 

Pavoni.



#3 bardiir

bardiir

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 11 May 2015 - 09:01

Sure will do, I'll probably do a beta-test program too and if there is enough ongoing interest sell these for different pens. I already got plans to do this for other pens too, most notably my TWSBI pen. I'm terribly unpleased with the way the feed works on that and I got a really nice flexible nib thanks to Bo Bo Olson which fits perfectly but doesn't provide much fun due to the lack of consistent ink flow over time.


My Pens/Nibs (inked/active): Lamy Studio/Vista/Joy (XXF slight-flex custom | 14k EF | EF | F | 14k M | M | B | 14k 1.1 custom | 1.1 | 1.5 | 1.9), TWSBI Diamond 580 (F | Pendleton BadBoy | Zebra G | F.P.R. semi-flex), Pilot Falcon EF, Penkala Vintage 14k semi-flex, Pilot Parallel (2.4 | 3.8 | 6.0)

I'm still looking for help/data/supporters/sponsors for my Ink Database - It already contains over 900 Inks but is still low on data about the inks except on the Inks I got myself or where I found nice data sheets. So Im looking for these: InkSamples mailed to me, Permissions to use InkReviews - preferable by people who have a lot of InkReviews online, InkReviews mailed to me so I can scan them, Sponsors that will help me to finance InkSamples, People willing to trade InkSamples (list of available Inks from me is available via PM request - please include available Inks)


#4 AAAndrew

AAAndrew

    (Not so) Wee Timorous Beastie

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,842 posts
  • Location:Durham, NC
  • Flag:

Posted 11 May 2015 - 18:28

I was wondering when 3D printing would come to fountain pens. Seems like a good problem to address. Feeds, I would imagine, would be tricky enough to experiment with in their complexity and fine details. But with a 3D printer, it's more a matter of changing the drawing and printing again.

 

Good luck, and I'll be really curious to see how it comes out and what materials you end up going with. I don't know much about ebonite, but it would seem that you'd want something relatively hydrophobic, but not too slick. There's got to be some "grip" on the liquid, but not enough that it doesn't flow.

 

Interesting.



“When the historians of education do equal and exact justice to all who have contributed toward educational progress, they will devote several pages to those revolutionists who invented steel pens and blackboards.” V.T. Thayer, 1928



Check out my Steel Pen Blog


"No one is exempt from talking nonsense; the mistake is to do it solemnly."

-Montaigne


#5 bardiir

bardiir

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 11 May 2015 - 19:58

The material will probably stay at PLA which I'm currently using. ABS doesn't really like ink very much, I guess you would need to coat it. HIPS is meh but doesn't really stick to the print bed for such a print with such a small adhesion surface. PLA sticks pretty well and ink does adhere quite nicely to it.

 

Mk9 above and Mk10 are red PLA which I'm mostly using during prototyping. All following are now probably going to be green PLA which I use for production due to better tolerances on the material. 

 

Feed Mk10: 2mm longer feed, cuts the ink sharply below the nib tines with a slight upwards bent at the tip, tip is now sharper to mitigate longer feeds impact on flexing. Almost the whole nib unserside is covered with the feed except the area needed for flexing. This improves leakage due to shaking very much. Carelessly tossing the pen a few centimeters, like non-amorously removing it from your hand onto the table when you're done making a note will only cause a minor ink drop to come from the nib if any at all. But it destroys startup characteristics badly. Hard starts everywhere until you shake the pen. This works almost instantly and doesn't cause any ink-spills so this is an improvement nontheless. no leakage > shaking the pen for startup

 

Feed Mk11: +0.1mm deeper ink grove which stops 0.2mm from the front of the nib no get more freeflowing ink underneath the front of the tines. Wider channel from the reservoir, in Mk10 ink got trapped badly within the reservoir preventing real cleaning of the feed. => Fail, drips ink freely, too freely to be a problem of the feed design, need to evaluate possible effect of material.


Edited by bardiir, 11 May 2015 - 20:13.

My Pens/Nibs (inked/active): Lamy Studio/Vista/Joy (XXF slight-flex custom | 14k EF | EF | F | 14k M | M | B | 14k 1.1 custom | 1.1 | 1.5 | 1.9), TWSBI Diamond 580 (F | Pendleton BadBoy | Zebra G | F.P.R. semi-flex), Pilot Falcon EF, Penkala Vintage 14k semi-flex, Pilot Parallel (2.4 | 3.8 | 6.0)

I'm still looking for help/data/supporters/sponsors for my Ink Database - It already contains over 900 Inks but is still low on data about the inks except on the Inks I got myself or where I found nice data sheets. So Im looking for these: InkSamples mailed to me, Permissions to use InkReviews - preferable by people who have a lot of InkReviews online, InkReviews mailed to me so I can scan them, Sponsors that will help me to finance InkSamples, People willing to trade InkSamples (list of available Inks from me is available via PM request - please include available Inks)


#6 Goudy

Goudy

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 589 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 12 May 2015 - 03:03

Very interesting idea. Theoretically, would it be possible to 3D print the rest of the pen as well - apart from the nib, of course?


utQ9Ep9.jpg


#7 bardiir

bardiir

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 12 May 2015 - 03:19

I think I just alarmed Pierre, the maker of Desiderata pens, with my thread and he contacted me about my thoughts as a customer because of the impression of beeing unhappy, sorry for that :D

 
Just to clarify it publicly too: The Desiderata is great. I would (and have) recommend it in a heartbeat every time. Handle it with care and you got a very nice calligraphy flex pen.
 
It's a flaw of flex pens in general: There is a lot of ink under the nib. If it's shaken the ink will come out. 
 
I don't think the Desiderata does need any more improvement than a wide open channeled vintage flex does or is especially flawed. It does fare at least on par when shaken/abused.
 
My goal is to iterate on that and try to capture the ink more firmly on/in the feed without coming to the point where ink flow is insufficient for flex writing. 
 
I don’t think anyone has ever done any experimenting in flex-feeds because there never was the market need for it. Vintage flex writers in their era wouldn’t really surprise anyone with the ocassional ink spill and already were a big improvement over dip pens. After that came the modern era and modern pens in general don’t offer much flex, modern feeds to a fantastic job at not letting go of any ink by accident but fare pretty badly when it comes to ink flow amount.
 
My current thinking for Mk12 is along the lines of multiple ink channels, each one of them able to grab the ink with capillary action like in a modern pen, but in combination enough ink to feed the flex nib.
 
And the Desiderata just happens to be the most forgiving experimentation platform. 
With my TWSBI there are restraints on the form factor of the feed backside.
With my Lamy feeds I got restraints AND i got a fiddly locking mechanism which i currently don't feel like trying to reproduce on my printer.
With my vintage flex I would fear breaking the plastic, that got quite brittle over time, when I would try a dozen different feeds. 

Edited by bardiir, 12 May 2015 - 03:39.

My Pens/Nibs (inked/active): Lamy Studio/Vista/Joy (XXF slight-flex custom | 14k EF | EF | F | 14k M | M | B | 14k 1.1 custom | 1.1 | 1.5 | 1.9), TWSBI Diamond 580 (F | Pendleton BadBoy | Zebra G | F.P.R. semi-flex), Pilot Falcon EF, Penkala Vintage 14k semi-flex, Pilot Parallel (2.4 | 3.8 | 6.0)

I'm still looking for help/data/supporters/sponsors for my Ink Database - It already contains over 900 Inks but is still low on data about the inks except on the Inks I got myself or where I found nice data sheets. So Im looking for these: InkSamples mailed to me, Permissions to use InkReviews - preferable by people who have a lot of InkReviews online, InkReviews mailed to me so I can scan them, Sponsors that will help me to finance InkSamples, People willing to trade InkSamples (list of available Inks from me is available via PM request - please include available Inks)


#8 bardiir

bardiir

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 12 May 2015 - 03:36

Very interesting idea. Theoretically, would it be possible to 3D print the rest of the pen as well - apart from the nib, of course?

 

About two weeks ago I would have said yes. But after experimenting with the feeds I'm not that confident about that anymore.

 

With commercial laser sintering printers of course, you can even print metal pens polish them and sell them. At last with the consumer machines it could end badly. The plastic is formed layer by layer and the ink on the feed creeps along the layer lines and throughout the feed interior.

 

On a feed that's probably not really an interesting thing, there is some ink all around the feed, nothing tragic. On a pen I don't think that's a feature you want to have when the section starts oozing ink through from the inside :D


My Pens/Nibs (inked/active): Lamy Studio/Vista/Joy (XXF slight-flex custom | 14k EF | EF | F | 14k M | M | B | 14k 1.1 custom | 1.1 | 1.5 | 1.9), TWSBI Diamond 580 (F | Pendleton BadBoy | Zebra G | F.P.R. semi-flex), Pilot Falcon EF, Penkala Vintage 14k semi-flex, Pilot Parallel (2.4 | 3.8 | 6.0)

I'm still looking for help/data/supporters/sponsors for my Ink Database - It already contains over 900 Inks but is still low on data about the inks except on the Inks I got myself or where I found nice data sheets. So Im looking for these: InkSamples mailed to me, Permissions to use InkReviews - preferable by people who have a lot of InkReviews online, InkReviews mailed to me so I can scan them, Sponsors that will help me to finance InkSamples, People willing to trade InkSamples (list of available Inks from me is available via PM request - please include available Inks)


#9 beanbag

beanbag

    Sailor Shigure

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 278 posts
  • Location:California, USA
  • Flag:

Posted 12 May 2015 - 07:55

I follow this thread with interest and hope you can learn and share bits of empirical info about feed properties.


 

 

 


#10 bardiir

bardiir

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 15 May 2015 - 11:48

The last few days I've upgraded my 3D printer with some additional support structures to fixate the x/y axis in relation to the z axis. As you can see on the feeds they are not exactly straight, they got sort of a wobble to them. It's not really bad (like 200 micron wobble or so) but it might be the cause of some issues with the feeds. I finalized this yesterday so we'll see if it's straighter when I get the chance to test it this evening.

 

I've also found that 3D printing, while great for prototyping is definitively nothing that can be used for production, at least not with my machine and with my current print speed/resolution. A feed takes around 2 hours to print. I guess Pierre is even faster at pushing out the pens than that :D

 

Well the biggest learning currently: The material is crucial, some of the plastics do bond with the ink and it does work quite nicely. Some others (and even when changing parameters on the print this can happen like temperature) are really hydrophobic causing the ink to stay in the pen or flow out of the pen freely without any control. It's quite hard to get this to work using the standard materials.

 

I've now ordered (and received today) some printable rubber which has micro-pores which should be quite hydrophilic. I hope this will help with the ink not wanting to go into the channels.

 

Overall the 3D printing works quite nicely to produce feeds that do work. But since the channels are such small details this is very very hard to print in a way that capillary action does work like it does in modern feeds.

 

The internal ink chamber does clog rapidly with the pigmented ink I'm using and is impossible to clean.

 

I'm also struggling at getting the breather hole drop-free. When shaken the breather hole is one of the points where ink will fly out from the ink channel underneath. So I would love to prevent ink from getting there. Like directly feed to the front of the breatherhole underneath the tines. This however does introduce sort of a problem for the ink bubble as its builtup is prevented when the breather hole is empty on the Zebra G nibs.

 

I'm thinking of introducing a pin into the breather hole, the feed having a little tower on top that goes into the breather hole, basically cutting it into two sections. Ink side on the front of the pen towards the nib only the border of the hole inked up basically. Air zone/inkfree to the back/towards the pen and combining two materials in one feed like an ink channel with the hydrophilic material which will suck in the ink and an air channel that is hydrophobic and thus doesn't easily take in the ink. If the air channel would end into the ink channel and the ink channel would store enough ink for the flexing then this could provide a nice air trapped ink reservoir while removing the need to balance between no ink and ink over the whole table.

 

This does however still pose the issues I currently got with the ink chamber clogging, so I would need to design this with bigger structures than on the current nib.

 

Just a short overview of my current theoretical thinking process.

Status generally: Mk9 is writing fine with non-pigmented inks. In generally better leak prevention due to the ink reservoir taking up excess ink. Downside compared to the original feed is ink flow, it's a drier writer which might cause issues with dry inks. Shaking not solved yet. Hard starts are almost non existent, it only takes a few seconds until full flex can be achieved, slight to medium flex is available instantly even when the nib was up for a few hours/overnight.

Mk10+ currently considered failures, maybe material issues but I'm currently not planning to waste any time in experimenting with these before trying out the possibilities with printing hard rubber.


Edited by bardiir, 15 May 2015 - 11:50.

My Pens/Nibs (inked/active): Lamy Studio/Vista/Joy (XXF slight-flex custom | 14k EF | EF | F | 14k M | M | B | 14k 1.1 custom | 1.1 | 1.5 | 1.9), TWSBI Diamond 580 (F | Pendleton BadBoy | Zebra G | F.P.R. semi-flex), Pilot Falcon EF, Penkala Vintage 14k semi-flex, Pilot Parallel (2.4 | 3.8 | 6.0)

I'm still looking for help/data/supporters/sponsors for my Ink Database - It already contains over 900 Inks but is still low on data about the inks except on the Inks I got myself or where I found nice data sheets. So Im looking for these: InkSamples mailed to me, Permissions to use InkReviews - preferable by people who have a lot of InkReviews online, InkReviews mailed to me so I can scan them, Sponsors that will help me to finance InkSamples, People willing to trade InkSamples (list of available Inks from me is available via PM request - please include available Inks)


#11 pavoni

pavoni

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,495 posts
  • Location:Cheshire, England
  • Flag:

Posted 15 May 2015 - 12:17

Really appreciate the update bardiir and your experimentation makes for fascinating reading.  Hopefully, other technically minded FPNers will continue to chip in. 

 

It would be very interesting to see you and Francis Goossens (Fountainbel) get together, to see how a feed such as you are looking to achieve, might better enable the excellent Conid Bulkfillers to accept vintage nibs with considerable flex!  Just a thought from a non-technical :)   Please keep us updated on your excellent work.

 

Pavoni.



#12 bardiir

bardiir

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 15 May 2015 - 18:47

Yeah well we'll see where this is going to get. The thing we like to do when we got our shiny new gadgets is thinking our ancestors where plain stupid. Designing a feed is (as I learned during the first few iterations) not as easy as it might look like. At least modern feeds are very delicately designed systems to feed the ink very controlled to a specific amount of saturation on the nib.

 

Our ancestors did a lot of experimentation (where the serrations/fins did origin in the first place) and weren't plain stupid. So it will probably take a lot of experimentation to get something working nicely. The only real advantage I got compared to all the fountain pen makers in the history are a fast prototyping system without a lot of manual precision work and a lot more information already available from the history of fountain pens.


My Pens/Nibs (inked/active): Lamy Studio/Vista/Joy (XXF slight-flex custom | 14k EF | EF | F | 14k M | M | B | 14k 1.1 custom | 1.1 | 1.5 | 1.9), TWSBI Diamond 580 (F | Pendleton BadBoy | Zebra G | F.P.R. semi-flex), Pilot Falcon EF, Penkala Vintage 14k semi-flex, Pilot Parallel (2.4 | 3.8 | 6.0)

I'm still looking for help/data/supporters/sponsors for my Ink Database - It already contains over 900 Inks but is still low on data about the inks except on the Inks I got myself or where I found nice data sheets. So Im looking for these: InkSamples mailed to me, Permissions to use InkReviews - preferable by people who have a lot of InkReviews online, InkReviews mailed to me so I can scan them, Sponsors that will help me to finance InkSamples, People willing to trade InkSamples (list of available Inks from me is available via PM request - please include available Inks)


#13 bardiir

bardiir

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 02 June 2015 - 06:21

Ok so my learning so far:

Materials matter a LOT and how it's processed matters even more. Slow printing speeds do result in smoother surfaces and cleanlier look of the feed but ink adhesion suffers. PLA/ABS are just too hydrophobic by default to get it working really nicely without surface treatment. Even with the working feed designs it's mere luck if a feed performs well and even then the internal chamber is a real pain in the ass when it comes to maintaining the feed as it clogs down with the pigment inks I use. I've got some prints that do work quite nice, but same model printed again does not work at all.

 

The main issue is the balance between freeflowing and overflowing. The hard plastic doesn't really securely seal the feed when it's in the pen and ink can seep through the side sometimes. This is made even worse by the fact that a 3D printer introduces a flare at the bottom which I need to cut down before using the feed.

 

So all in all I've got some hard rubber printing filament now which should be around the hardness of a car tire or a bit harder (Shore A60). We'll see how that fares, but I'll probably trade the internal ink chamber für another design, maybe even something with the two materials combined in a single feed. I've got some theories there how I could probably use the hydrophobic plastic for the air channels and the porous rubber for the ink channel only.

 

The only issue I'm currently facing (except for the overall time constraint thats always bugging me) is that I pulled out the threads of one of the grub screws holding the printer nozzles, so currently the printer is pretty much out of service :(


My Pens/Nibs (inked/active): Lamy Studio/Vista/Joy (XXF slight-flex custom | 14k EF | EF | F | 14k M | M | B | 14k 1.1 custom | 1.1 | 1.5 | 1.9), TWSBI Diamond 580 (F | Pendleton BadBoy | Zebra G | F.P.R. semi-flex), Pilot Falcon EF, Penkala Vintage 14k semi-flex, Pilot Parallel (2.4 | 3.8 | 6.0)

I'm still looking for help/data/supporters/sponsors for my Ink Database - It already contains over 900 Inks but is still low on data about the inks except on the Inks I got myself or where I found nice data sheets. So Im looking for these: InkSamples mailed to me, Permissions to use InkReviews - preferable by people who have a lot of InkReviews online, InkReviews mailed to me so I can scan them, Sponsors that will help me to finance InkSamples, People willing to trade InkSamples (list of available Inks from me is available via PM request - please include available Inks)


#14 AAAndrew

AAAndrew

    (Not so) Wee Timorous Beastie

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,842 posts
  • Location:Durham, NC
  • Flag:

Posted 02 June 2015 - 15:31

...

The only issue I'm currently facing (except for the overall time constraint thats always bugging me) is that I pulled out the threads of one of the grub screws holding the printer nozzles, so currently the printer is pretty much out of service :(

 

Ooops. I hope you get it going again. I'm enjoying your exploration and learning about this application of 3D printing.



“When the historians of education do equal and exact justice to all who have contributed toward educational progress, they will devote several pages to those revolutionists who invented steel pens and blackboards.” V.T. Thayer, 1928



Check out my Steel Pen Blog


"No one is exempt from talking nonsense; the mistake is to do it solemnly."

-Montaigne


#15 bardiir

bardiir

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 02 June 2015 - 20:35

Yeah I hope so too. But overall it's the first real issue I'm facing with the printer aside from getting the overall print quality up from the default. So I'm quite happy with the built quality on this cheap chinese knockoff.

 

I think it shouldn't be that much of a problem to fix the issue or get a spare part.

 

And if everything fails, I already got plans for a somewhat better nozzle setup that doesn't rely on the grub screw anymore. I find these to be a bit wobbly anyway.


My Pens/Nibs (inked/active): Lamy Studio/Vista/Joy (XXF slight-flex custom | 14k EF | EF | F | 14k M | M | B | 14k 1.1 custom | 1.1 | 1.5 | 1.9), TWSBI Diamond 580 (F | Pendleton BadBoy | Zebra G | F.P.R. semi-flex), Pilot Falcon EF, Penkala Vintage 14k semi-flex, Pilot Parallel (2.4 | 3.8 | 6.0)

I'm still looking for help/data/supporters/sponsors for my Ink Database - It already contains over 900 Inks but is still low on data about the inks except on the Inks I got myself or where I found nice data sheets. So Im looking for these: InkSamples mailed to me, Permissions to use InkReviews - preferable by people who have a lot of InkReviews online, InkReviews mailed to me so I can scan them, Sponsors that will help me to finance InkSamples, People willing to trade InkSamples (list of available Inks from me is available via PM request - please include available Inks)


#16 watch_art

watch_art

    Pen Making Madness

  • FPN Super Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,490 posts
  • Location:hot springs, arkansas, usa
  • Flag:

Posted 26 January 2016 - 01:22

Any updates to this?  :)


fpn_1432247667__cropped-20150427_0641231 sigpic14481_1.gif vanness.jpg?t=1321916122




Reply to this topic



  



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: desiderata



Sponsored Content




|