Pelikan 215 Or Vintage?

[Boniface]

Hello Pelikan forum,

 

I've been smitten by the looks of the 215 and have struggled over whether to buy one. I then borrowed a friend's 215 and loved it. I'd never used a Pelikan before, and I was really impressed with how smooth the nib was (it was a broad) and how great the pen felt in my hand. Posted it was perfectly balanced and a joy to hold. None of my current pens felt so perfect in the hand. So I've been considering buying one.

 

However, at the two shops in town they sell for about $180, which seems high. Also, if I bought it I would get the nib ground to an oblique stub, which ups the cost. I'm willing to spend that just because I really like the look and feel of the pen.

 

But I then thought that I should consider a vintage Pelikan. I've never bought a vintage pen before, which makes me nervous about going this route, but the vintage Pelikan nibs get such high praises here that it may be worth the risk. Looking around the web, I've seen 1950s 400s with oblique flex nibs for about the same price as the 215. I would like to try a flex nib at some point--I love stubs, although I have no experience with flex nibs. The closest I have is a Pilot 91 with a soft nib. Given the praise these nibs get, I'm now thinking about getting a vintage 400 over the 215, but am torn between the two options. Buying both is not possible right now, but perhaps in the future.

 

I do like the look of the 215 more than the vintage ones, but am intrigued by the vintage nibs.

 

So what do you think--which way would you go?

[Bo Bo Olson]

A 50's-65 vintage oblique is the way to go...it is stubbish, has a flattish nib...no American Bump Under. A 400-400n-400nn can have either a semi-flex or a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex depending on what the original owner wanted at the corner pen shop.

 

A 140 outside the hard H and harder D nibs is semi-flex. It is a medium-small pen that was very popular size back then, like the Kaweco Dia or the top of the line Geha 760. Like them it posts to posted 400 size.

The nib sizes is @ 1/2 a size narrower than gold modern...so a B is like a fat M. An OB, oblique B is a writing nib, not signature pen.

My first semi-flex nib was a 140 OB.

The foot print is big enough to learn how to use Oblique easy.

Highly recommend the 140 or Geha 790, and in Oblique Broad.

Got one of each on my desk right now.

 

I favor working up the flex ladder. After you have your 140 for three months you will not be as ham fisted as when you started....you can then buy a 400-400n-400nn with a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex.'

 

I have a 215 right in front of me, on my notes...a nice smoth regular flex M. and I do like the 200's nib. They are as good and narrow as the semi-vintage '80-90's 400 or '90's Celebery pens.

The 200's nib is one of the better modern nibs....a 'true' regular flex.

 

The modern, post '97 400/600 is a fat blobby semi-nail....not the normal width regular flex of the '80's-97.

The 200 is a very good nib.

 

In I had some 400's..and a '90's M400. I could not see buying a 200. So I got a 215...which is lighter than I expected.

[Sasha Royale]

The M215 is heavier. (Metal tubing construction, I think.) $180 is high, but

you get service and "poking & stroking" privileges in a store. Online prices

are around $150 plus shipping. (If pay the full $180, ask for a bottle of ink.)

 

I think you will love both, as I do. Get either, since you will certainly get the

other, as well.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Sasha Royale

[sargetalon]

Congrats on deciding to buy a Pelikan. Both the M215 and 400 are great pens. You are correct in that the vintage Pelikan nibs are second to none. That said when you go vintage, you run some risk such as failed piston seals and cracks. If you buy vintage, you should buy from a well known seller that will stand behind the pen in case there is an issue. Those pens are often gone over and repaired where necessary. That will likely result in a higher price than what you can get elsewhere but it's worth it. If you buy off eBay randomly for instance, you could end up spending a bit more than anticipated. The M215's and 400's have that same perfect balance in the hand but the M215 has more weight to it if that is important to you. Your call at the end of the day. The M215 may be the way to go though to get your feet wet and start saving up for that 400. Good luck with your choice.

[christof]

sometimes, vintage Pelikan appears for reasonable prices at the classifieds, here on the forum. only from well trusted sellers/members of course, hahaha!

 

...and yes, I can highly recommend vintage Pelikan nibs for use. Moderns...................not. But that's just me.

 

c.

Edited May 7, 2015 by christof

[DrCodfish]

"So what do you think--which way would you go?"

 

The answer to your dilemma is in your post:

 

"I've been smitten by the looks of the 215 and have struggled over whether to buy one. I then borrowed a friend's 215 and loved it. I'd never used a Pelikan before, and I was really impressed with how smooth the nib was (it was a broad) and how great the pen felt in my hand. Posted it was perfectly balanced and a joy to hold. None of my current pens felt so perfect in the hand. So I've been considering buying one."

 

"I do like the look of the 215 more than the vintage ones, but am intrigued by the vintage nibs."

 

 

You've done all the right things to decide if a Pelikan 215 is the right pen for you, and I think you have come to a decision about that pen. I suspect that if you had not been exposed to all the gowing praise of vintage Pelikans you would already have your custom stubbed Pelikan 215.

 

But other than what you have read, you really cannot make an informed decision about a vintage pen. So far it is all just heresay and speculation for you.

 

Based on your praise of the 215 and this comment "Buying both is not possible right now, but perhaps in the future." here is my recommendation:

 

Buy the 215. If you nerver buy another Pelikan it seems a safe bet that you will always be happy with this pen. Then over the next year write like crazy with that pen, and start saving your pen allowance. My experience with new pens is they usaully get better with a little time on the paper. At the same time do what you did in to evaluate the 215: Get yourself to a pen show if at all possible and try out vintage 400's. You may find that they don't live up to the hpe, but you may also discover that this opens the door to a whole new, wonderful world. It seems clear to me that the next pen you buy is probably not going to be the last pen you buy so might as well start down the Pelikan slippery slope with something you are pretty sure you will enjoy.

 

Whatever you do, be sure to let us know about it.

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

If the heft of the M215 is a significant part of how the pen feels in your hand, then the M215 with a hand-tuned steel nib would be my suggestion. The current steel nibs do have a bit of spring to them: not total 'nails'.

 

As time passes you may have the good fortune to acquire a soft / flex-ish nib, OR have a current production 14C nib modified for flex.

 

My Pelikan picks over time were far from linear: an M400 (Black+Green stripes), an M200 (Yellow), an M640 Sahara, then a 400NN and most recently another M400 (White + honey tortoise).

 

The M215 continues to call me — it has my private numbers.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited May 7, 2015 by Sandy1

[cadfael_tex]

I have an M215 and (@Bobo's suggestion) a 140 - bought from Rick Proppas. Both are excellent pens and don't think you can go wrong either way. I think I'd suggest the M215 first and then get a nib of your choosing from Richard Binder before he completely retires.

[fly_us]

Used to have the same dilemma, and also decided to get the M215 first because i don't have much experience with vintage Pelikan at the time, so new pen is the safe best. In fact, it is my first Pelikan. And after that, 5 more Pelikans are added in my collection, included the vintage 400.

 

$180 is too much for M215, i'm not sure about the nib ground add to the cost, but i got it for $100 with M nib online. Last time i check the price is still the same.

[Runnin_Ute]

The M215 continues to call me — it has my private numbers.

 

Bye,

S1

 

That's me with the 140... Have made ebay bids a number of times, but I wasn't really in the game from a budget point of view. Rick Propas has several at around $140, which I assume (not verified) he would have given the once over. So even though I might get one on ebay for $80 or so, you never know - especially with a pen of that age.

 

My first Pels were a 120 Merz & Krell w/EF (never inked) and a M205 (inked once) w/M. I later got another M205 (F) and a M150 (M)

[Angela]

I love all Pelikans, vintage and modern. I don't have a 215, but a friend of mine has a ringed one and it is significantly heavier than my 400-sized pens. Shockingly heavier, I'd say. The first time I picked it up, my first thought was "Whoa! That can't be a Pelikan!" If the feel of the 215 in the hand is what you've fallen in love with, I'd get the 215.

[Boniface]

Here's an update--

 

I did what I said I couldn't. I got both! I found a good deal on a vintage 400 with an oblique medium semi-flex nib from a member here, and a good deal on a 215 with a BB nib in England, so I ordered both from overseas. Now I'm just awaiting their arrival…

 

Thanks for all the advice too--it was wise advice. I know that I like the 215, but the hype of the vintage nibs also has a hold on me. Now I'll have both!

[dspeers58]

I would recommend a vintage 400 or 140. The later can be gotten for $80-$150, while the former are a bit more expensive, but are a bit nicer. In either case, from Propas or Penkalapens, you can get a good pen for a decent price. Rick Propas also warranties his pens and can find just the right nib for you. IF you can get to a pen show, you can pick just the right one. Again, very good prices and beautiful pens. the M215 does not compare, as far as I am concerned

[Boniface]

Another update--

 

Both arrived today! I've been playing with them for a little while and thought I'd give an update.

 

The 215 is very nice. I got it in a double broad, planning on having it made into a stub later. It's very well made and the piston is dramatically smoother than the only other piston I've used--the TWSBI 580. It's great craftsmanship is obvious. I flushed it and loaded it with some Pelikan Blue-Black and it wrote smoothly, but it does have hard stops and skipping. I'm not too worried about that because I'm sending the nib off to be stubbed anyway. It also makes a clicking sound when I'm writing with it posted--I'll have to find a way to prevent that. The bottom line is that I'm very happy with this pen.

 

Then I opened my other package: a 50's Pelikan 400 with a semi-flex OM nib. I bought it from PenaLusa.com. It is exactly as advertised. It looks like new and the piston is just as smooth as the brand new 215. I flushed it and loaded it with some Montblanc royal blue. Wow. The nib is incredible. The best nib I've ever used--and that's comparing it to nibs I've had worked on by famous nibmeisters. It is seriously smooth and has great character and softness. It it looks and feels brand new! I've avoided vintage pens before, but no longer!

 

I'm still learning how to hold it correctly, as it is an oblique. It writes extremely smoothly even when not perfectly aligned, so I can only tell whether I'm holding it right by the shape of the line it makes. The nib on this makes the 215's nib feel like a nail, even though it's not. It's a softer and nicer nib even than my Pilot 91 soft nib. I haven't tried any flex because I'm just not sure about that--whether it should flex straight down or to the side with the widest stroke of the line. I'll worry about that later; I don't want to damage the nib.

 

The 400 is lighter than the 215, but in my hand the weight makes no difference. They both balance perfectly when posted and are perfect for me. I never would have guessed that the 400 size would have been right because I have large hands even for a man. But they are--the pens' size makes them nimble in the hand and I can focus on writing instead of a holding a huge object.

 

Anyway, I'm very happy with both and thought I would share that. Thanks again for all the advice.

[Sasha Royale]

The 400 and 215 are about the same size. The M215 is made of metal tubing.

I like the way this heavier pen "self-settles" into my writing hand. So do you.

Get the M215. You like it. Enjoy the stock nib for a while. You might like it,

as well. You can always get a custom grinding later. Maybe you will find , for sale,

the nib that you want.

 

I haven't seen "used" one for sometime. New ones , shipping included, range from

$150 to $220. $180 is probably a good, OTC price.

 

Vintage ? You are going to get a vintage Pelikan later. (I promise.) And the M215

will become vintage, someday.

[Boniface]

Thanks for the advice--but I now have both, thus the excited update.