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Show Me Your Swan Eyedroppers!


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Well here is a picture of a 62..., 245 and no 205. I bought it years ago because I could not resist it, unfortunately it was not complete and i keep looking for the missing parts

Thank you so much for posting these pictures; the pen is a joy to behold.

 

Cob

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


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fpn_1441222764__mabie_todd.jpg

 

Nr. 1 and Nr. 2 are MT&B. Below is the last one that I am still waiting to come - MT&B with Hammered GF overlay, with a gold overfeed and a HR underfeed with bulb for filling the ED with ink from the upper part, without unscrewing the section.

 

fpn_1441261359__mabie_todd_pens_001.jpg

 

David Moak was so kind and specified me that this over-under feed was patented by W. W. Stewart (#631,909, Aug. 29, 1899) - see it here. An interesting posting about the functionality and repair of this 3-piece-feed, signed by David Armstrong, here.

Edited by Alex2014
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First of all, many thanks for the link to Mr Armstrong's excellent piece about the 4500 pen; I have one of these and will find the details most useful.

 

Here's my collection. There is one interloper there 2nd from the right, which is an Edward Todd Traveller.

 

fpn_1441292893__collection.jpg

 

The curiosity third from the left arrived today. It is stamped Swan Safety Pen and has a very transparent barrel. I wonder is the cap original and indeed, does anyone know anything about these? It has a flexible No 1 nib.

 

The Chatelaine is temperamental: it has a lovely 1.5mm stub but the feed needs sorting out. Also I cannot make the ring on the cap rotate as described in this thread. The cap is a good snug fit. Are they all meant to rotate?

 

Rgds

 

Cob

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


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I forgot about these three Safety Screw Cap 2s; usual rubbish photo. I wish I could afford to buy a Leica.

 

fpn_1441293491__safety_screw_caps.jpg

 

Cob

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


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The Chatelaine is temperamental: it has a lovely 1.5mm stub but the feed needs sorting out. Also I cannot make the ring on the cap rotate as described in this thread. The cap is a good snug fit. Are they all meant to rotate?

 

Rgds

 

Cob

 

My Chatelaine is exactly the same and the cap locks in a rectangular hole. I suppose that for rotation, the hole should be "L"shaped.

Edited by Alex2014
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My Chatelaine is exactly the same and the cap locks in a rectangular hole. I suppose that for rotation, the hole should be "L"shaped.

 

Thanks Alex, that's helpful.

 

C.

Edited by Cob

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


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I have two Chatelaines. My size 3 is badly damaged. The reason is probably, that nobody put a sheet into the box like in my first Chatelaine Swan.

 

fpn_1441308761__swan-important_notice.jp

 

There is a place at the cap lid, where the BHR has been removed, but which is covered by the cap ring. Here the pin of the section should friction fit when inserted.

 

Cepasaccus

Edited by Cepasaccus
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Why would there be a metal stud on the section and a groove in the cap lip and inner cap if it isn't meant to be rotated? It could just have a standard slip cap. Interesting.

 

Mine rotates and locks.

 

And is that wonderful antique warning note because the pen was never meant to rotate, or because it was already broken once and no longer rotates?

 

Antique mysteries we might never get answers to.

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@ cepassaus

 

There is a place at the cap lid, where the BHR has been removed, but which is covered by the cap ring. Here the pin of the section should friction fit when inserted.

 

 

 

Exactly. The cap is fixed when inserted due to the friction.

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Why would there be a metal stud on the section and a groove in the cap lip and inner cap if it isn't meant to be rotated? It could just have a standard slip cap. Interesting.

Probably because a normal slip cap isn't secure enough. Normal BHR slip caps probably can become loose fitting because the opening gets wider. This won't happen with a metal band.

 

And is that wonderful antique warning note because the pen was never meant to rotate, or because it was already broken once and no longer rotates?

Both were never meant to be turned. The BHR has a straight cut-out, no L or unregular U. The gold band has also a cut-out where it folds over the BHR, so the pin fits into the cap. In my size 3 somebody twisted the cap so hard, that the BHR cut-out and the band cut-out are misaligned, the pin ripped out and the section got badly scratched.

 

Cepasaccus

Edited by Cepasaccus
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I you can get pictures of the cap and the inside of the cap, I would love to see them. I only have one like that, and the band rotates. It was also missing the stud and scratched when I bought it. I assume someone pulled the cap off hard without turning the band. I made and replaced the stud and polished the section.

 

Pictures of the L shaped cuts in caps are pretty obvious when I see them on line, so I never thought much about the possibility of other sap configurations to take advantage of the metal stud on the section.

 

I enjoy all the clever variations that exist for filling pens, securing caps, etc. Please do try to show me how they designed your sections and caps. Anything designed so that you cannot twist it is doomed to be broken! (The Triad pen and almost no surviving examples makes this case well) Whether a standard slip cap or screw cap, no harm in twisting.... But make it a straight pull, and you are asking for trouble.

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I you can get pictures of the cap and the inside of the cap, I would love to see them. I only have one like that, and the band rotates. It was also missing the stud and scratched when I bought it. I assume someone pulled the cap off hard without turning the band. I made and replaced the stud and polished the section.

 

Pictures of the L shaped cuts in caps are pretty obvious when I see them on line, so I never thought much about the possibility of other sap configurations to take advantage of the metal stud on the section.

 

I enjoy all the clever variations that exist for filling pens, securing caps, etc. Please do try to show me how they designed your sections and caps. Anything designed so that you cannot twist it is doomed to be broken! (The Triad pen and almost no surviving examples makes this case well) Whether a standard slip cap or screw cap, no harm in twisting.... But make it a straight pull, and you are asking for trouble.

Quite so; I am delighted that my Chatelaine has survived the past 100+ years intact and undamaged!

 

C.

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


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Thanks for the great pics. It is so hard to get a good clear picture inside a barrel!

 

So is the top picture the standard rotating band to lock the pin?

 

On the bottom, is that hard rubber inside the band? And, to the bottom right photo - "Ouch!"

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I have made a drawing how it looks from the inside. The BHR is shown transparent which means it mostly looks green on the yellow gold. The normal band is yellow. The fold around the edge is orange. To the left is the situation on the size 1, to the right the size 3.

 

fpn_1441359988__chatelaine-cap-drawing.p

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It would appear that the later L-shaped groove, shown in Greenie's photos on the previous page and in the ad below, was introduced as an improvement so that the pin is not pulling solely on the narrow rim of the cap band, shown in orange in Cepasaccus' diagram.

 

http://i.imgur.com/uOHJw9x.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/utQ9Ep9.jpg

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It isn't pulling on the orange rim unless you destroy the alignment with force. With normal operation the tip of the pin is pushing onto the inside (yellow) surface of the band.

 

The size 1 is a Co. Ltd., the size 3 a Bard.

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Given its age, it's amazing how good and snug the fit of the cap is on my Chatelaine which as I mentioned above is the straight slot fit. The pen was manufactured by Mabie Todd & Co New York.

 

Cob

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


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Cob - please try to show a picture of the straight slot for the pin on the section. Are you sure that the outer band does not rotate?

 

Here is the traditional bayonet cap

fpn_1441397964__swan_bayonet.jpg

fpn_1441397972__swan_bayonet_1.jpg

 

And on the original post, a cap like the one in the vintage ad posted by Cob. Same L shaped slot, but inside the band. Also there is another metal collar inside the band to block the slot.

 

My theory is that for the pen with the warning, the outer gold band was turned with the pin only mid way in the longitudinal slot. This forced the inner plain metal collar to mis-align from the gold band.

 

fpn_1441398578__swan_cap_1.jpgfpn_1441398584__swan_cap_2.jpg

fpn_1441398591__swan_cap_3.jpg

 

I believe my blue addition to your diagram shows the correct alignment of the plain metal inner collar with slot that should move in unison with the outer decorative gold band

 

fpn_1441399268__swan_cap_ready_to_close.fpn_1441399273__swan_cap_closed.jpg

 

I believe your cap was meant to be this design and that the inner metal collar is out of sync with the outer gold band like this:

 

fpn_1441399283__swan_cap_misaligned.jpgThis would happen if the pin was only half way in the slot and the outer band was forced.

 

After soaking in some oil, you could probably put a probe in the middle of the yellow and force the outer band back into alignment.

 

The polish up the section and add a new pin, and Voila!

Anyway, that is my theory. I have not seen a convincing picture of a straight slot accepting a pin. The pin seems to be there to lock the pen on the cap with an L shaped cut and not just to add friction

Edited by Greenie
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Greenie, your second cap is one of the pull-offs. With both of my pens the cap band is fixed just like every other cap band (or as it should be on every other cap band). So putting the cap onto then pen, holding the cap and turning the band would not work. The other way round would be in this case holding the cap and searching the right band position where you can pull out the pen. Also if just the rim would hold, the cap would be 4mm off the pen when closed. And regarding your blue lines, there is no L. There is just a straight slot. With the borken pen the cap would not fit onto the pen, because where the slot is the rim prevents insertion and where the rim is cut out the BHR prevents the insertion. Btw. when looking at your straight slot I would say somebody tried to rotate the cap in vain in both directions. That might be the reason, why it is misaligned.

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