Posting Of Copyrighted And/or Leaked Material, And Ebay Links

[wimg]

Ladies and gentlemen,

 

I'd like to point out two contentious items which came to my attention today.

 

Point 1 is that it is not allowed to post any eBay links in any other places than Market Watch, for links to other people's interesting sales, and The Mall, in case of premium account holders, to their own sales. Anything else will be dealt with swiftly, strictly and severely.

 

Point 2 is that someone here posted copyrighted material about pens still to be announced by Montblanc.

This is an absolute no-no, and this type of posting will be dealt with quickly, strictly and severely.

 

An addition to this effect has been made to the Forum Rules here, just to point that out once again.

 

What people here need to realize here is that people who do this type of thing cause trouble for FPN as a whole. So if you see something like this happening, please do report it straight away to a moderator, by means of the Report button available underneath each post, or contact me directly by PM or email.

 

Thank you all in advance.

Warm regards, Wim

 

 

 

[meiers]

I just read this...

 

REGARDING Copyrighted material: Please do not ever post copyrighted material here. Montblanc is, rightfully so, extremely strict when it comes to matters like these, hence this specific addition. Doing so will result in severe actions from the moderator and admin side.

Edited April 11, 2015 by meiers

[jsolares]

meiers think higher up than mods, i don't think Montblanc has anyone attending these reveals sign a NDA, and the photos taken should fall under fair use if so, however being on the bad side of any pen company wouldn't be at all good, it's just causing trouble and worst case financial issues.

 

 

I guess we'll have to wait for leaks on other sites and/or the official releases.

[luckduck369]

Point 1 is that it is not allowed to post any eBay links in any other places than Market Watch, for links to other people's interesting sales, and The Mall, in case of premium account holders, to their own sales. Anything else will be dealt with swiftly, strictly and severely.

 

 

Does this mean we should report the posts asking "is this real..." with a sales link? For example, this and this.

Edited April 12, 2015 by luckduck369

[wimg]

 

Does this mean we should report the posts asking "is this real..." with a sales link? For example, this and this.

Links to sales to get an opinion are ok, even though we consider that only borderline acceptible .... Too easy to sneak in one's own sale.

However, that first pen is totally unacceptable, so it is hidden now. We do not encourage buying fake pens, it actually is a bannable offense. So please, do indeed report those.

 

Links to one's own sales are strictly forbidden here on FPN, except in The Mall, and even then only when posted by premium account holders.

 

Good deals and such which may be of interest to other members, may be posted in Market Watch, but, to reiterate, they may not point to one's own eBay sales.

HTH, warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

I just read this...

 

REGARDING Copyrighted material: Please do not ever post copyrighted material here. Montblanc is, rightfully so, extremely strict when it comes to matters like these, hence this specific addition. Doing so will result in severe actions from the moderator and admin side.

 

 

meiers think higher up than mods, i don't think Montblanc has anyone attending these reveals sign a NDA, and the photos taken should fall under fair use if so, however being on the bad side of any pen company wouldn't be at all good, it's just causing trouble and worst case financial issues.

 

 

I guess we'll have to wait for leaks on other sites and/or the official releases.

 

I am in discussion with Montblanc about this subject, as it is a bit strange for Montblanc boutique owners to say it is acceptable to share these here on FPN, and then to get a letter from a legal firm representing Montblanc to tell us to desist or otherwise...

 

We'll see what happens....

 

Warm regards, Wim

[karmakoda]

Wim, I would like a little more clarification. This forum receives many requests from people entering the Montblanc fountain pen marketplace. They usually have minimal, or erroneous information about the subject. It has been helpful to refer the members to resource sites such as Penboard.de, and Fountainpen.de, so they can continue their research. Is that permitted? Each site has labeled copyright material.

And as I understand it, absolutely no eBay links are permitted in this Forum. They are only permitted in Market Watch and The Mall, for premium account holders, specifically for their own sales, correct?

Thanks

Greg

[Chrissy]

Some might wonder why moderators could not deal with these infringements themselves rather than relying on ordinary members to 'snitch' on other ordinary members

[Chrissy]

Links to sales to get an opinion are ok, even though we consider that only borderline acceptible .... Too easy to sneak in one's own sale.

However, that first pen is totally unacceptable, so it is hidden now. We do not encourage buying fake pens, it actually is a bannable offense. So please, do indeed report those.

 

Links to one's own sales are strictly forbidden here on FPN, except in The Mall, and even then only when posted by premium account holders.

 

Good deals and such which may be of interest to other members, may be posted in Market Watch, but, to reiterate, they may not point to one's own eBay sales.

HTH, warm regards, Wim

I can't comment on the pen shown in the first link because it is no longer there. However, if it was removed because it is a fake pen, then the pen in the second link is also a fake and should surely be removed for the same reason

Edited April 13, 2015 by Chrissy

[wimg]

Some might wonder why moderators could not deal with these infringements themselves rather than relying on ordinary members to 'snitch' on other ordinary members

 

As indicated quite a few times in quite a few forums: moderators are a group of volunteers, with limited time, who can't read every single post and check every single link every single time. There is not enough time in a day to do so.

 

And it is totally unwarranted to call sending a report to a moderator snitching. It is about protecting this site and community.

 

Regards, Wim

[wimg]

I can't comment on the pen shown in the first link because it is no longer there. However, if it was removed because it is a fake pen, then the pen in the second link is also a fake and should surely be removed for the same reason

 

If you don't know what was linked to, maybe you shouldn't comment. The second link was to a genuine Montblanc sale, asking whether this was fake or not.

 

A recommendation to buy a fake pen is a rather different issue.

 

Regards, Wim

[FredRydr]

If a rule is so vague that it is unenforceable, and enforcement invariably will result in unfair results, its best to dump the rule. This is an excellent example. One cannot have members constantly guessing, and requiring them to snitch on other members' otherwise wholly appropriate posts imposes an unfair burden, especially when threatening swift, strict and severe (but vague) consequences.

 

Fred

[Chrissy]

 

As indicated quite a few times in quite a few forums: moderators are a group of volunteers, with limited time, who can't read every single post and check every single link every single time. There is not enough time in a day to do so.

 

And it is totally unwarranted to call sending a report to a moderator snitching. It is about protecting this site and community.

 

Regards, Wim

The way that moderators are listed as forum moderators on each forum header, suggested to me that, generally speaking, they each 'look after' the moderation on their forums.

 

I never suggested for a moment that any moderator should be reading every single post and checking every single link on FPN as a whole.

 

However, are you saying that the moderators who are nominated to look after each forum can't even spare the time to have a quick look through the new posts on their nominated forums? If that's the case why are they moderators specifically for that forum?

 

I obviously don't understand what they are tasked to do.

[richardandtracy]

If a rule is so vague that it is unenforceable, and enforcement invariably will result in unfair results, its best to dump the rule. This is an excellent example. One cannot have members constantly guessing, and requiring them to snitch on other members' otherwise wholly appropriate posts imposes an unfair burden, especially when threatening swift, strict and severe (but vague) consequences.

 

Fred

 

Fred: You know the score. Don't pretend you don't, having been a mod.

 

We try to look at all the posts. However we are not all knowing or all seeing. It is actually incumbent on all members to comply with the law of the land they live in - their own law applies to them regardless of enforcement. Copyright law is fairly similar in all western countries and we naturally expect people to comply with the law of the land they live in - the FPN 'no copyright infringement' requirement is simply reinforcing a duty that is on every user of FPN imposed upon them by their own country. If you have a problem with FPN doing this, could I ask that you take it up with your own legislature first, as that is where the duty originates?

 

As for random enforcement. Yes. It is a bit random, simply because of the time element, not due to intent. However, I suspect it's a bit less random than that of each jurisdiction's police on this, despite the fact that it is a criminal offence in many jurisdictions . As for the vagueness of the sanctions: How can it be otherwise? To specify a single sanction, one would have to specify a draconian sanction to deal with serious and deliberate abuse, and this would be unfair to those who had an accidental infraction. If you were to specify more, graduated, sanctions in specified circumstances, then some smart alec would end up working out loopholes and negating the effect. Instead, the ability for the mods to tailor their response to the perceived degree of infraction. That is a standard common law approach, and seems to work fairly well - it isn't the best approach in every case, but it tends to be a better approach, on average, in more cases. The appeals process, should one be needed, is to contact Admin, who are the equivalent of the supreme court in FPN.

 

We are not putting a burden on people, we are asking for everyone to mention it when they think 'Ohh, that's not right'. This is no more of a burden on anyone at FPN than a concerned citizen of any country should feel. If you feel it as a burden, please lighten up, FPN is supposed to be fun.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[chunya]

Well put, richardand tracy. I've not been a member that long, coming up about 4 years, and I have to admit that I'm not exacty sure about all of the rules, but I know what not to do that might attract legal action against FPN. I think most members are probably in the same well-meaning boat, that perhaps has a slightly warped rudder. I've just realised that I've broken a rule, with another member asking about buying a pen from the classifieds here, I asked 'which one as I have two , reaised it was on Ebay that the other was being listed, so sent the Link. I'm happy to take a slap on the wrist, mea culpa.

 

 

[wimg]

Considering this post was meant as a reminder, after we received a legal writ from Montblanc, wasn't meant as a discussion topic but indeed a reminder, and since I think enough has been said in argument and counter-argument., this topic has been closed.

 

Kind regards, Wim