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Question Regarding Early M700 Toledo Nibs

m700 toledo pelikan nibs

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45 replies to this topic

#1 jungkind

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 14:48

What is the correct nib for an early M700 Toledo, 18k gold monotone or 18k bicolour?



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#2 sargetalon

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 18:38

Hello jungkind.  I am not an expert in all things Toledo as I have never owned one.  A Toledo is in fact my grail pen.  My understanding however is that the monotone nibs were available on earlier production models and later were replaced by the two-tone nibs.  I hope that's helpful to you.


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#3 kelleher

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 21:30

I am very sure, Rick Propas can give the exact answer.  Nice to know Sargetalon and I Have the same Grail Pen!



#4 Peine11

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 09:02

My understanding however is that the monotone nibs were available on earlier production models and later were replaced by the two-tone nibs.


Are you saying that the earliest M700 (that'd be 1986 LE, iirc) had monotone nibs instead of the bi-tone?

Honest question, because you seem to be revered on all things Pelikan around here and unverfied info could potentially lead to people to go on swapping a correct bi-tone with old style 600 nibs just to jack up prices, if you know what I mean.

#5 Keyless Works

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 09:11

I don't know much about the Toledo. This thread states that in 1988 the M600 had an 18kt gold monotone nib that was also used on the Toledo. When did they start making the modern Toledo? I don't know how long that nib has been around but I love the one on my 88 M600...it's incredibly soft.

http://www.fountainp...old-style-m600/

#6 Peine11

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 09:51

1988 the M600 had an 18kt gold monotone nib that was also used on the Toledo.


Like I said, "early" M700 was from 1986, not 1988. Not even close. I just need clarification on those LE being monotone, because afaik they were bi-tone.

#7 sargetalon

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 10:27

Are you saying that the earliest M700 (that'd be 1986 LE, iirc) had monotone nibs instead of the bi-tone?

Honest question, because you seem to be revered on all things Pelikan around here and unverfied info could potentially lead to people to go on swapping a correct bi-tone with old style 600 nibs just to jack up prices, if you know what I mean.


No, it's a fair question. I do not have any intimate knowledge of the Toledo nibs and held off responding to the thread until I saw that no one else had for some time. What I reported was info that I had previously found in other threads on this site. I don't know what the very earliest nibs looked like only that "earlier" examples that I've seen have had monotone nibs. The fact that it is not first hand knowledge is why I clearly stated that this topic is outside of my expertise. I'm very interested to hear the answers from those more knowledgeable though. Thanks for pointing out to me that there may be caveats peine11.

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#8 Xof72000

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 12:18

According to this post : http://www.fountainp...an-toledo-m700/ ... early Pelikan M700 Toledo have single tone nibs (never denied since 2011).

 

That's also what my model has.



#9 Keyless Works

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 12:50

Thanks for the link. Good info.

#10 Peine11

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 13:47

Sorry, but still nothing to suggest the first ones were monotone other than hearsay. Look, I can tell just by looking at the binde I could tell whether it's the first year or not, because we need to establish the pen is an early one first before we can worry about the "correct" nib.

Pictures please.

#11 sargetalon

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 14:11

@Peine11:  Could you please educate me as to how one can tell whether a pen is a first year by the binde.  I would love to know what tell tale features to look for.  What features distinguish later models?  Again, the Toledo is a bit of a black box for me but I'm always excited to learn more, especially about such a great pen.  Thanks!


PELIKAN - Too many birds in the flock to count.  My pen chest has proven to be a most fertile breeding ground.

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#12 Peine11

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 14:19

@Peine11:  Could you please educate me as to how one can tell whether a pen is a first year by the binde.  I would love to know what tell tale features to look for.  What features distinguish later models?  Again, the Toledo is a bit of a black box for me but I'm always excited to learn more, especially about such a great pen.  Thanks!


Sure. I'll PM you, let's not make it too easy for those unscrupulous sellers out there.

#13 Keyless Works

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 14:38

I would like to know as well. There are a couple on that auction site and I am interested in buying one.

#14 Xof72000

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:08

As far as I know, these are the signs of an early model :

 

PELIKAN%20M700%20Toledo%20ancien%20modeg

 

PELIKAN%20M700%20Toledo%20ancien%20modeg

 

 

 

If it's not, please tell me and explain why...



#15 dnic

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 16:45

This is from a catalogue from 1988.

The first M700 Toledo had a 18ct monotone nib.

 

Visit my collectors page: https://www.rothemel...asis/index.html

toledo1988.jpg



#16 jungkind

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 18:29

What an interesting discussion!

 

I remember an article some years ago, no idea where and when, that described the differences in the details of the engraving over the years, explaining that the work has been simplified, less details, over the years. maybe something as well that could give an idea of the year of manufacturing.

 

I have access to three M700 and with all the input above, had another look at them:

 

One is clearly a newer one with printed 2 chick logo and Germany on the knob. Looking at the "Toledo" work, I note that most of the bird details are not cut through to the base material

 

The other two have the engraved two chick logo and W-Germany on the knob, one in a "cartouche" (frame like in the photo in a previous post), the other one without cartouche . There is a slight difference in the tone of the gold plating. One has a 18k monotone nib, the other one a two tone.

 

One other detail is that the newer one has a Ag 925 stamp, of the older ones one has no silver content stamp, the other one 925 only.

 

One other detail I remember one the older ones came in the small case, similar to the original ones, not in the normal big case.


Edited by jungkind, 31 March 2015 - 18:32.


#17 Peine11

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 00:58

Looks like we were on different pages here. I was thinking about the very first year LE, not just the production models from '88 onwards like the one on the catalog and xof's above. Btw, I need to see the big bird on the binde to say whether its a first year or not.

@jungkind thanks for the nice thread. Could you provide a pictorial of all three? That would be greatly appreciated!

#18 dnic

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 05:15

Hi Peine,

 

from my knowledge, there was no Limited Edition M700 Toledo.

Only the first M900 Toledo was issued as a Limited Edition (with 20 ct bi-color gold nib).

 

Have a look on my website TOLEDO (you can switch the language to German top right).

 

Or have you any leaflet or something else about a M700 Toledo fro m1986?

I collect photos of a leaflets I can pick up, to solve such questions and improve the offered information on my website.

@everyone: Please contribute such information/pics/...

 

Thank you

Dominic 



#19 Peine11

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 06:53

Hi Peine,
 
from my knowledge, there was no Limited Edition M700 Toledo.
Only the first M900 Toledo was issued as a Limited Edition (with 20 ct bi-color gold nib).
 
Have a look on my website TOLEDO (you can switch the language to German top right).


Hi dnic,

That is not my understanding, so I have to disagree regarding the first M700 with you. Please be rest assured I was not mistaken the LE for the first year M900 because the latter were my grail and after waiting for decades I am fortunate enough to own one. Well for Toledos I am onto my sixth, and that pen was by far the hardest to find and most expensive by several magnitudes than the rest of my Toledos —combined— ... On this note, may I also point out the one pictured on your website is only "half correct" as there is a crucial feature missing on that pen.

 Or have you any leaflet or something else about a M700 Toledo fro m1986?
I collect photos of a leaflets I can pick up, to solve such questions and improve the offered information on my website.
@everyone: Please contribute such information/pics/...
 
Thank you
Dominic


I don't have leaflets. I have only the pens with the certificates and the boxes of course. Very important for toledos to have complete documentations. Again, I'm looking forward to get more info on the first year M700 to pair with the big one. I'd be grateful for any first hand information. Thank you.

#20 Xof72000

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 07:36

@Peine11 : could you show us some pictures of your pens ?







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