Should W.-Germany Production Impact Value?

[sargetalon]

As a Pelikan enthusiast and collector, I always keep my eye on the used pen market looking for examples that would work towards my collecting goals. It drives me crazy to see almost every Pelikan listed as Rare, Very Rare, or even Ultra Rare despite being run of the mill common models but that is a different matter. What this gets at though is that sellers seem to be asking top dollar for pens that are in no way extraordinary. Recently, I have had several conversations with people and have seen several listings that got me to thinking and I wanted to solicit your advice. The issue is in regards to the cap band stamping of "W.-Germany" versus "Germany" and how that impacts the value of the pen. Many people have suggested to me recently that a pen stamped "W.-Germany" has a higher intrinsic value than one stamped "Germany" even though two pens may be identical otherwise. Personally, I have never put a premium on the "W.-Germany" stamped pens and treat them as I do the others. Now I'm not sure if I'm mistaken in my thought process or whether various sellers are simply looking to maximize their sale by exploiting any facet of the pen that they can thereby creating a false premium. Looking through my collection of 96 Pelikan fountain pens, 10 are marked "W.-Germany" and 86 are marked "Germany."

 

My question then is; what is the concensus? Should more money be expected and paid just because the pen has the "W.-Germany" stamp or should its value be considered no different than the identical pen produced a year or two after reunification. I look forward to your input and discussion on this.

[Oldtimer]

A "W" is not worth even a cent more IMHO. But value is in the eye of the beholder. The pen-ignorant buyer follows the seller in accepting he is acquiring a unique -- which may be not so ---item when he pays top money so they are making it so in the market. Historically, it may have value to KNOW what the conditions were that brought out the difference. And that is the true value of the "W". It is knowledge. History.

[risingsun]

I admit that I find the W to add some intrinsic value to me as a collector, primarily as it pins down a special time, not only in the fountain pen world, but also in the sense of global politics. Add to this the "belief" that some collectors have that the earlier nibs of this era are "better", in the sense that they are softer or springer than the 90-97 era nibs. This is often propagated by several posters here on FPN, though my own experience does not really support or refute this position. But once a thought like that starts, it is hard to stop it from being accepted as gospel.

 

Also, the early M800s marked W. Germany undoubtedly garner a premium price, particularly if they are a first-year 1987 pen, though the later 80s also have garnered a distinct following. Again, this is partially supported by the fact that many collectors find the 14K nibs of the early M800s to be superior to the later, and far more common 18K nibs. In my opinion, they all write very well. But to be able to pin down a manufacturing period to a shorter time period is appealing to a lot of collectors, which I do believe increases the intrinsic value of a pen.

[joss]

If I am right (correct me if I am wrong), the "W. Germany" imprint was used from 1982-1997. It means that the pens with this imprint are older than the ones with the "Germany" imprint. Logically, they can be regarded as "more vintage" than the modern Pelikan Soveräns. The imprint also helps to roughly date the pen to an exact period, which is always nice for collectors.

 

Maybe that explains why these pens are more desirable to some collectors?

[sargetalon]

If I am right (correct me if I am wrong), the "W. Germany" imprint was used from 1982-1997. It means that the pens with this imprint are older than the ones with the "Germany" imprint. Logically, they can be regarded as "more vintage" than the modern Pelikan Soveräns. The imprint also helps to roughly date the pen to an exact period, which is always nice for collectors.

 

Maybe that explains why these pens are more desirable to some collectors?

 

The end date of the stamping is more like '90-91. A pen like the M200 produced in the old trim style dates 1985-1997. If it has the "W.-Germany" imprint, you know that it was made 1985-1990. To me, that stainless steel nib is no better than the one made 1990-1997. I do think there is some merit to being able to identfiy the older gold nibs as I do believe those are better than later examples and in that case, may value the pen a bit more highly. That said, I don't think that extra value applies to all pens across the board and certainly not those of the lower range which have stainless steel nibs which is my main focus.

[joss]

The end date of the stamping is more like '90-91. A pen like the M200 produced in the old trim style dates 1985-1997. If it has the "W.-Germany" imprint, you know that it was made 1985-1990. To me, that stainless steel nib is no better than the one made 1990-1997. I do think there is some merit to being able to identfiy the older gold nibs as I do believe those are better than later examples and in that case, may value the pen a bit more highly. That said, I don't think that extra value applies to all pens across the board and certainly not those of the lower range which have stainless steel nibs which is my main focus.

 

It sounds logical indeed that the "W. Germany" imprint disappeared early 1990s but that makes the production period of the pens with this imprint shorter than I thought: around 5-7 years of production for the M1xx and M2xx series and 8-10 years for the Souverän M4xx, M6xx, ... series, is that right?

 

I fully agree that the extra value is not associated with a better build quality (let aside the questionable difference in writing quality of some solid gold nibs). But I also understand that a seller with this knowledge will use the "W. Germany" feature to attract the interested collector.

Edited March 11, 2015 by joris

[Bo Bo Olson]

Germany '82-89-90, in the 400 had a nib that was a tad more springy in regular flex than the W.Germany '90-91-97.

Yes, those pens are worth more because the nib is a bit better....from my reading.

I saw a W.Germany 400 go for €135....lots more than a '90-97 ones. I thought about it for ten seconds before going back to chasing the '50's.

 

I was told a long time ago, in I had semi-flex and a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex, by some one with both the W.Germany and Germany 400 nibs, I'd be disappointed by the W.Germany nib in I was spoiled, with my semi&maxi nibs. The difference was there but small.

 

I defiantly would chase a W. Germany 800, (87-89-90) one passed through my hand in trans-mailing to Spain. I would pay less for a '90-97 one.....even if I could tell the difference between a nib not quite as good....but still a regular flex with some spring to it, and the modern nail 800.

I don't know how to tell the second class Germany and third class Modern nail 800's apart.

[mirosc]

I prefer the nibs of the 80s and earlier, not the nibs after Pelikan changed them.

So a W.Germany can indicate that there is a nib I prefer, but it doesn't justify any price markup (not for me).

[DrCodfish]

A few thoughts:

• As a serious collector, you have considerably more knowledge than probably 90% of people who are buying Pelikan pens. Therefore you value one of those very rare models (the few which you still need to complete your collection) than the novice does. The 'W' vs Germany designation is not much of a factor for you. But would a novice pay considerably more for an Amber M250 demonstrator? Probably not.
• The novice knows what W vs Germany means and to him if a seller suggests this is 'rare' or meaningful then he may be more susceptible to this hype. The case of a little bit of knowledge being dangerous, or in this case costly.
• Supply and demand, a very basic law of economics. By your own count 'W' branded pens are outnumbered by Geermany branded pens 8 to 1. That in itself suggests some degree of premium may be appropriate regardless of a seller hyping the 'rarity' or not.
• Emotional attachment: If you are of a certain age there will be an emotional response triggered whenever you are reminded of the tyranny that attended the partition of Germany. I remember pictures and magazine article of people who lost their lives because of this arbitrary but deadly political division.

Like you, I don't think I would pay a premium for a 'W' version of a Pelikan, but I can understand how someone else might, and it is always understandable that high pressure sales people will try to exploit any opportunity to make more money on a transaction.

 

To me, this sounds like the perfect topic for a blog post, and maybe even a blog poll to boot.

[sargetalon]

To me, this sounds like the perfect topic for a blog post, and maybe even a blog poll to boot.

 

 

Sounds like just what I was thinking too. It'll be the first poll that I've done. Should be published on the site at noon tomorrow.

[KBeezie]

Far as the nibs goes, that's assuming the nib is original to the pen marked W.-*

[stephanos]

The direct answer to your question is that I would not pay a premium for the "W. Germany" stamp.

 

The one exception might be the 800 range, as "W." signifies an early model. Otherwise, the "W." makes little difference to me. Yes, it marks it out as dating from a specific period, but the pens of that era weren't (as far as I know) substantially different from those made (say) in the early 1980s. And of course, just because it says "W.Germany" on the cap doesn't mean that the nib will be from the "W.Germany" era - as KBeezie has pointed out.

 

In the grand scheme of things, there are fewer pens marked "W. Germany," making them rarer. Perhaps that would justify a price premium for some people, and causes sellers to ask for more money.

 

For what it's worth, it is my understanding that the "W." was added only a few years before the fall of East Germany, because until then, there was a feeling that the two countries should be one (and only in the 1980s was there a feeling that the division may be a more permanent one - incorrectly, as it turns out). But perhaps one of the German FPN members can correct me.

 

(Edited to correct sloppy spelling.)

Edited March 20, 2015 by stephanos

[stephanos]

Excellent question, by the way.