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Diamond 580 - Anyone Fixed The Drying-Out Issue?

twsbi diamond 580 flow

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30 replies to this topic

#1 Miz Black Crow

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 21:58

Hey all. Enjoying my brand-new 580-AL (I'll throw in a photo for happy times), but I'm having an issue that doesn't seem to be unheard-of in the TWSBI universe. My Medium nib writes incredibly smoothly and reasonably wet--it allows for some lovely shading, as you'll see. But after a page or two I start to get skips, nothing crazy, but it requires a re-priming to get them to go away. (The lines also darken considerably after a re-prime.)

 

I'm hesitant to squeeze the tines to get a wetter nib--partially for shading, but also because it writes a relatively fat M line as it stands and I don't want to make it any broader. It seems like either the pen doesn't exchange ink for air very well, or else the feed doesn't quite keep up with the nib.

 

So has anyone actually fixed this issue? If not I'll keep working with it the way it is, but if there's a quick-fix and I missed it in the forums somewhere I'd love to know :)

 

twsbi2.JPG

 

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Edited by Miz Black Crow, 02 March 2015 - 21:59.

Pens: TWSBI Diamond 580-AL (M), TWSBI Eco (M)

Lamy Safari { Vista (M); Charcoal (M); Charcoal (1.1mm SI)},

Noodler's Ahab (Cardinal Darkness, Blue Poseidon Pearl, Clear Demo, King Philip Purple Demo)

Retro 51 Tornado EXT in Lincoln (copper) (M)

Inks: Noodler's: 54th Massachusetts, Apache Sunset, Red Black, BSiARIcelandic Minty Bathwater, Lexington Grey, Liberty's Elysium, Old Manhattan Blackest Black

"an' it harm none, | Primum Non Nocere | do what ye will."
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#2 AnneHW

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 01:18

Interesting. I have the fine point and no problems at all. I just got the stub and I've only dipped it so far because I can't decide which ink I want to use next. I've used a couple of inks that were dry and caused problems in all of my pens. At first, for instance, I thought I had issues with my TWSBI mini, but it was the ink. Is that possible for you?

#3 Miz Black Crow

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 02:24

Ink issues are definitely possible; I've never used Liberty's Elysium before (and since the TWSBI swallowed the whole sample, I don't have a reference pen). When I run out (eep!) I'll test it with something else.


Pens: TWSBI Diamond 580-AL (M), TWSBI Eco (M)

Lamy Safari { Vista (M); Charcoal (M); Charcoal (1.1mm SI)},

Noodler's Ahab (Cardinal Darkness, Blue Poseidon Pearl, Clear Demo, King Philip Purple Demo)

Retro 51 Tornado EXT in Lincoln (copper) (M)

Inks: Noodler's: 54th Massachusetts, Apache Sunset, Red Black, BSiARIcelandic Minty Bathwater, Lexington Grey, Liberty's Elysium, Old Manhattan Blackest Black

"an' it harm none, | Primum Non Nocere | do what ye will."
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#4 Abdulr204

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 16:18

Ink issues are definitely possible; I've never used Liberty's Elysium before (and since the TWSBI swallowed the whole sample, I don't have a reference pen). When I run out (eep!) I'll test it with something else.

 

I used Liberty's Elysium (LE) in my TWSBI Mini-Fine Point for several months.  I find LE to be a very quick drying ink.  My Mini would constantly stop writing/dry out.  I found myself shaking the pen a few times to get it going again.  



#5 Waski_the_Squirrel

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 20:13

I'm having this issue in my TWSBI 580 B, but not the TWSBI 580 AL B. Even with the same ink, one behaves well, the other one does not. It is possible to get a defective nib.

 

It could also be the ink. I have Stipula Saffron that has so far exhibited this behavior in every single pen it has visited. Maybe I should try it in the TWSBI. One of my other "naughty" inks (Noodler's Manjiro Nakahama) found a home as an amazing performer in a "naughty" pen (Lamy ABC).


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#6 thatotherguy1

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 02:18

Ink issues are definitely possible; I've never used Liberty's Elysium before (and since the TWSBI swallowed the whole sample, I don't have a reference pen). When I run out (eep!) I'll test it with something else.

I've never had an issue with the flow of Liberty's Elysium in any of my pens (though I don't yet own a TWSBI). I actually find it to be a fairly free flowing ink.

I'd try the pen out with an ink you know well before you tinker too much with it. If it's still drying out when you try out your ink that you've chosen as your standard and know like the back of your hand, you've got some work to do.


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#7 pyramidValley

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 09:13

Somebody suggested that its due to surface tension and ink hanging in the feed, so it might be worthwhile to experiment and put a small spring or ball in the body to help disrupt that



#8 Ste_S

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 12:13

If you haven't already done it, flush the pen with dish soap or ammonia solution. If that doesn' work, pull the nib and feed and scrub the feed with a toothbrush. Floss the feed channel with a brass shim if you have one.

 

With a piston filler, you shouldn't really have surface tension problems. More likely going to be a feed problem - either something blocking the flow of ink, or air not getting back up to the ink chamber



#9 migo984

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 14:47

I have had 3 TWSBI pens & had problems with gradual ink starvation on all 3. Feed channel on TWSBI is renowned for being very narrow. I eventually minutely widened the feed on one with a razor blade & it cured the problem.

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#10 eggybread

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 12:06

I have had 3 TWSBI pens & had problems with gradual ink starvation on all 3. Feed channel on TWSBI is renowned for being very narrow. I eventually minutely widened the feed on one with a razor blade & it cured the problem.

 

 

I've also had long term problems with TWSBI mini drying out. Tried adjusting the nib, shaking it, priming it before use. Always the same, after half a page the saturation starts to go and after a while it'll be dry again.

 

I went for the 'razor blade on the feed channel' thing suggested here. I used a blade to run along and inside the channel around 30 times. The channel is very narrow indeed!

 

That for me did the trick. Finally! No more drying out and a wet feed. I want to thank migo984 for giving me the idea.


Edited by eggybread, 26 February 2018 - 12:07.


#11 eggybread

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 21:37

Spoke too soon. After a day, it's dry as a bone again and won't flow and I can't even get it started now!

My TWSBI 700R is fantastic, but this Mini (at least, the one that I own) seems to be a real dud. It's great when it works, but 50% of the time it is not being a pen, just a pretty acrylic display for ink.



#12 Bluey

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 22:44

Mine did the same. It was a 1.1 and I would be writing away and then,.....stop. Dried up.

I needed to twist the piston like a crank shaft to get it to start again, whereby it would write about 3 or 4 pages before stopping again.

Repeat ad infinitum.

 

I enlarged the feed and did everything but no joy. Oh the joy of Jowo/Bock nibs.


Edited by Bluey, 26 February 2018 - 22:45.

Mediterranean blue, Asa Goa, China blue, Royal blue, Sapphire blue, Indigo, Washable Blue....the colours of the rainbow.

#13 Arotaes

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 20:08

Odd, my 580AL has been nothing but perfect ever since I got it. Never had any flow issues, but then again I am running with a Fine. You should try tuning it, even if you screw up a new nib and feed assembly is only $20 off Goulet.


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#14 Tseg

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 22:10

I came to this thread because I was having skipping problems.  I received my new 580AL earlier this morning and on one hand it was amazing... so smooth, a great feel, looking beautiful with yama-guri iroshizuku ink.  But I noticed every few sentences the start of a letter of a word would skip, usually a 1/4 or 1/2 of a stroke, but sometimes a whole stroke.  Initially it did not seem like an issue, but after several hours of writing it was becoming a niggling annoyance.  I started doing some searching and there were a lot of extreme recommendations as this TWSBI ailment has been observed by others, but a very simple suggestion found online, without clarity of why it works, has seemed to do the trick for me. 

 

The 'fix' consists of not having the plunger knob clamped down.  Basically loosen the knob a 1/8 or 1/16 of a rotation and something happens in the ink system that allows better flow.  I can't explain it.  After I loosened the knob I was several pages in with righting, and I noticed another skip.  I went to the knob and somehow I had bumped it tight shut again.  I loosened it slightly and no more skips.  Beyond that, I notice my (M) nib definitely has a sweet spot that doubly ensures my pen has no issue paying down a consistent smooth line.

 

Finally, as I write this, I just tightened down the knob again and immediately my ink became drier and I had another skip in the first few sentences.  1/8 of a turn later so the knob feels loose and my writing has become wet again.  It is very bizarre and I can't explain it, but it just works for me.   Can anyone else with a 580AL skipping problem try to validate this as a potential solution?  Also, anyone else notice a sweet spot on this nib that lays down ink better?



#15 Bluey

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 22:38

That's a standard trick which is done with converters to equalise the air pressure to prevent or lesson air bubbles, if I understand correctly what you've said there.

 

The skipping problem is usually caused by an overpolished nib coupled with second rate feed.

 

I never noticed any sweet spot on any Twsbi.


Edited by Bluey, 03 March 2018 - 22:39.

Mediterranean blue, Asa Goa, China blue, Royal blue, Sapphire blue, Indigo, Washable Blue....the colours of the rainbow.

#16 Tseg

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 01:17

Yup...as is usually the case, as soon as I write problem solved, mission accomplished the TWSBI has reverted to it's old problems.  A pen with potential, filled with demons.



#17 Tseg

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 06:06

Update.  This has been bugging me about the drying/skipping/hard starts (to the point I was within a hair of pushing the <submit> button to buy a Pelikan M805 to get nice juicy consistent ink out of a pen).  I came across this thread below and even though it is about stub nibs, is a pretty identical issue.  In summary, after some extensive tine manipulation to:

  • create a paper-width space between tine and feed
  • do some tine manipulation to create more of a pointing down beak effect 

... it seems like my problem has been resolved.  As best I can tell, keeping the knob loose or tight has no effect, so I now have mine tight.  Getting the tines right:

  • Eliminated all skipping
  • Eliminated (reasonable) hard starts - I kept uncapped and unused for 10 minutes with a iroshizuku ink and no start issue at all... not sure how long I could have waited?
  • Eliminated the subtle but continuous 'drying' of the ink flow occurring after multiple pages written

I also did intensive flushing, but that did not directly solve the issues, so am not sure if it contributed to the solution.  Maybe others have other issues, but getting the tines right ultimately is what solved my problems with this pen.

 

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#18 Ambimom

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 15:05

I've had the 580 TWSBI for a couple of years.  When I first got mine, I experienced all the same issues catalogued here.  I wrote to Philip Wang and he offered to take a look at the pen.  It turned out that the piston was not inserted correctly.  He provided a link:  https://www.twsbi.com/blogs/ tutorials, adding "The key to remember is the end cap should always lock shut when its closed.  If it wiggles and is not a snug lock, then it isn't assembled correctly."

 

The TWSBI has been perfect ever since.  



#19 Bluey

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 16:33

I'd taken the Twsbi apart loads and there was no noticeable ill-fit with the piston, so that's not the solution.
 

to the point I was within a hair of pushing the <submit> button to buy a Pelikan M805 to get nice juicy consistent ink out of a pen).

You may end up with more of the same.


Edited by Bluey, 04 March 2018 - 16:35.

Mediterranean blue, Asa Goa, China blue, Royal blue, Sapphire blue, Indigo, Washable Blue....the colours of the rainbow.

#20 Ambimom

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 22:45

Then do what I did.  Write to Wang and ask his advice.  At minimum, you should get a new pen.  I own 2 TWSBIs and they are fantastic pens that write beautifully -- no skips, no hard starts, no dry spells.  Because of the slip 'n seal cap, they never dry out. Your pen should not have these problems.







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