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45 Degree Angle Hurts!


BookCat

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I have some pens with italic nibs but find holding them at the required 45 degree angle makes my hand hurt after about five mins. Am I doing something wrong? I normally use a standard tripod grip with the nib parallel to the writing line and have no problems with this. Is there a trick to holding an italic pen at the required angle?

 

I hold 1.1mm stubs just as I would a normal pen, but so many sources are adamant about the angling of an italic. Until now, I've been writing a type of italic with flex pens, but would like to give my broad edge pens some use.

 

How is it done without pain?

Thanks in advance. :)

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Hi Bookcat,

I'm afraid I have not skill as a calligrapher italic or otherwise but I do use a stub for everyday writing.

 

 

The paper is canted to the left as per normal and the nib is then held in a 'natural (for me at least) position which makes it somewhere around 45 deg. in normal use. I would need to force my wrist round to bring the flat of the nib parallel with the lines...is that not 'correct'? I've not thought to check.

 

Dom

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Would like to see a picture of how you hold your pen, both for what you use now, and for the 45 degree angle you are attempting. Also would like to see a few lines of your writing. Need more infor.

 

Best of luck to you,

Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?

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Unfortunately I don't have a digital camera, but could ask a friend to take a pic for me. Unlike the pic above, my hand, wrist and forearm are directly underneath the writing line, not angled with the elbow pointing out to the right. My elbow is tucked into the right side of my waist.

 

My pen hold is a normal, fairly relaxed tripod which fits perfectly into the section of a Lamy Safari or Joy.

 

Attempts at the 45 degree angle lead to difficulty in keeping all of the nib on the paper and pain in my wrist. If I try to stick my elbow out to my right the writing slopes to the left, which I dislike, and the pen, whichever one I use, skips.

 

I'll try to film myself writing normally and trying to use the correct italic angle. Just hope I can get my old webcam to work!

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Is there a trick to holding an italic pen at the required angle?

 

[...] so many sources are adamant about the angling of an italic.

 

When I was taught how to write at school - the "ball and stick" method - I was taught to hold my pen at 45 degrees. I'm convinced that it's the most relaxed pen hold, and it puts the pen directly in front of you and in your line of vision. I'm sure it's no accident that it's the standard pen hold for italic.

 

But this means letting your forearm rest at 45 degrees. If you're keeping it parallel with the ruled lines, you're having to strain your wrist to perform the correct angle, and it's small wonder you're having difficulty keeping the edge of the nib on the paper.

 

There is no trick. How people write comfortably at any other angle is beyond me. :)

 

Sources are adamant for another reason. Despite the craze for "maximum line variation" to "prettify" handwriting or make it more "interesting," italic is actually rather subtle about it. Horizontal and vertical letter strokes are the same width, and the line changes as it flows into arches and becomes a hairline when it makes a diagonal join, which is exactly the stroke that needs least emphasis.

 

I think this broadly works for other styles, too. Writing at a different angle so that one of the strokes of a "t" becomes thinner and the other thicker will give an entirely different look. Italic, though, is about shape and balance, not a magician's act to impress everyone that you can make lines really thick and then make them really thin again.

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On this page (about flex pens) there are two pictures, one showing the incorrect way to hold a pen for flexing (but the correct for an italic pen) the other showing the correct way for flexing. The 'correct' way is the way I hold a fountain pen, with my fingers in a relaxed tripod. I don't have a death grip.

 

brunico may be right in saying that I need to stick my elbow out to the right so that my forearm is diagonal to the writing line rather than at a right angle to it. I've tried doing this; it makes my writing slope to the left, which I hate. If I also turn the paper to the left to compensate, then my nib is again parallel to the writing line. :gaah:

Maybe I should stick to flex-italic?

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it makes my writing slope to the left, which I hate

 

If you mean your ascenders run NW to SE (rather than NE to SW), then it sounds as though you're pulling your fingers in towards your palm and are having difficulty moving them down and to the left (i.e., to get a stroke perpendicular to the writing line). I think this must be perfectly natural. I can touch my thumb to my middle finger and move them in and out very quickly, but keeping my wrist still (as it is flat on the paper), I find it much more difficult to move them left to right (i.e., parallel with the wrist and perpendicular to the forearm).

 

When I write, although I move my fingers a little, they're relatively still, and most of the movement is coming from the hand as a whole, pivoting on the soft, fleshy pad under my wrist. This makes it easy to do strokes that aren't in line with my forearm.

 

People say it takes some practice if you're not used to it. Since I've occasionally held the edge of the nib vertically or horizontally to try and figure out how people write like that, I can well believe it. It might just be a case of fighting your old muscle memory for a couple of weeks.

 

As I've written what I call the correct way for as long as I can remember, it's completely natural for me. It would be helpful to hear from someone who consciously made the switch.

Edited by brunico
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Thanks brunico, that makes sense. I do pull the pen towards my palm while writing and tend to pivot my arm at the elbow when moving across the page between words, though sometimes I just move my wrist.

 

Puzzled: I'm sure I put a link in my previous post - it's disappeared; weird.

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