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Any Suggestions For Reducing Burping With Ed And Piston Fillers?

eyedropper piston fill

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48 replies to this topic

#21 rwilsonedn

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 19:51

Your TWSBI shouldn't burp.. check that everything is set properly.

 

Piston-fillers follow the same physics as the rest of us--they just have smaller capacity than ED pens and modern ones usually have better ink collectors. So given the right incentive--say, a really cold room, warm hands, and a nearly-completed manuscript that you are preparing for a calligrapher friend, sure, a piston-filler will get you.

ron



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#22 edebill

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 21:59

Your TWSBI shouldn't burp.. check that everything is set properly.

 

Everything seems to be pretty nominal. Nothing loose, no twisting of the fill knob (I'm super careful as I post/unpost).

 

Ink reservoir 20% full. Put pen in laptop bag, then stand at bus stop and let it cool down to about 35 degrees.  Arrive at coffee shop, where it's a comfortable 70-75. Warm hands on fresh coffee, then begin to write.

 

It takes something really extreme to make it happen. Usually it just goes super wet for a bit. The feed is trying really hard - I'd like one this effective on my big eyedroppers.



#23 Tresconik

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 08:18

 

Piston-fillers follow the same physics as the rest of us--they just have smaller capacity than ED pens and modern ones usually have better ink collectors. So given the right incentive--say, a really cold room, warm hands, and a nearly-completed manuscript that you are preparing for a calligrapher friend, sure, a piston-filler will get you.

ron

Yeah, but the TWSBI has a pretty good feed to deal with this stuff.



Ah, coffee hands. That would explain it. I have a JoWo nib and feed in my Indian eyedropper.. No burping yet.



#24 edebill

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 14:50

 

I hunted around a while and finally settled on small plastic beads.  I was assuming that they’d be pretty stable when exposed to ink.  Also, I could easily adjust the given pen's capacity.  Besides, the clear ones would look cool in transparent barrels.  Here’s an example of what I’ve been using (no connex to the vendor):

http://www.ebay.com/...=item4176b4365b

I wonder if the fact that the beads are pierced makes a difference—I suspect not.  In fact, I’m not at all certain that this strategy is a guaranteed fix; however, it seems to be curbing the leak-problem in several eyedroppers that I’ve not been able to use previously.

 

This works for me! I'm using these plastic pellets, which have the advantage of being cheap and not having any tiny holes that will hold ink.

 

My current favorite pen is a Gama Supreme. With the barrel filled with those I've had no trouble whatsoever, despite letting it sit out in the sun and get quite hot.

 

I've also loaded them in an Airmail 444, which has a clear body. They look acceptable, but I wouldn't say it's making the pen more attractive. Maybe if they were polished and faceted they would.



#25 Nomad

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 23:40

 

This works for me! I'm using these plastic pellets, which have the advantage of being cheap and not having any tiny holes that will hold ink.

 

My current favorite pen is a Gama Supreme. With the barrel filled with those I've had no trouble whatsoever, despite letting it sit out in the sun and get quite hot.

 

I've also loaded them in an Airmail 444, which has a clear body. They look acceptable, but I wouldn't say it's making the pen more attractive. Maybe if they were polished and faceted they would.

 

Thank you edebill and rockydoggy. I love Indian ebonite EDs and this seems like a really cool way to burp-proof them.

 

Any idea of how much ink a pen like the Gama Supreme will take when the barrel is filled with beads?



#26 edebill

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 17:45

Thank you edebill and rockydoggy. I love Indian ebonite EDs and this seems like a really cool way to burp-proof them.
 
Any idea of how much ink a pen like the Gama Supreme will take when the barrel is filled with beads?


Inky fingers for science!

Um... I mean... My Gama Supreme holds 1.5mL with those beads in it. That probably isn't all usable because some ink will stick between the beads instead of making its way to the job.

#27 Nomad

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 19:03

Thanks edebill.

 

I got the beads you recommended and promptly packed my Gama Kuyil with them. It now contains approximately 1.25 mls of ink. The beads seem relatively ink repellent, so I expect most of the ink to be available to the feed.

 

Ink flow is just as good as before. And with the volume of ink/air reduced to that of a long converter, I'm thinking burping issues should be a thing of the past.



#28 manp

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 11:52

I am using a pan head stainless steel screw (M4 x 60 mm) with a nylon tube around the threaded portion inside my burping Ratnamson Supreme. This reduces the barrel volume by about one third at cost of slightly increasing the weight. Of course one can feel the steel screw moving inside the ink while handling the pen.



#29 Nomad

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 23:07

I am using a pan head stainless steel screw (M4 x 60 mm) with a nylon tube around the threaded portion inside my burping Ratnamson Supreme. This reduces the barrel volume by about one third at cost of slightly increasing the weight. Of course one can feel the steel screw moving inside the ink while handling the pen.

In general, it is not a good idea to introduce metal parts into constant contact with ink. You may find that over time the screw will corrode and discolor your ink. Then again, depending one the grade of steel, it may not. The plastic beads I use (bean bag beads) do not react with the ink and do not shift the weight of the pen.



#30 manp

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 05:04

In general, it is not a good idea to introduce metal parts into constant contact with ink. You may find that over time the screw will corrode and discolor your ink. Then again, depending one the grade of steel, it may not. The plastic beads I use (bean bag beads) do not react with the ink and do not shift the weight of the pen.

Entirely agree. I have a silicon rubber tubular solid gasket material that can be easily inserted and taken out from the barrel. How does silicon rubber react to fp inks?



#31 Nomad

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 05:13

How does silicon rubber react to fp inks?

Silicone rubber should be completely inert to fp ink. I understand that silicone rubber sacs used in Parker p-51 have been found to be still intact 50 years after production.



#32 mhosea

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 05:16

Silicone rubber should be completely inert to fp ink. I understand that silicone rubber sacs used in Parker p-51 have been found to be still intact 50 years after production.

 

Pretty sure you're exactly right about silicone rubber.   However, the Parker "51" pli-glass sacs happen to be made of PVC.


I know my id is "mhosea", but you can call me Mike. It's an old Unix thing.


#33 Nomad

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 05:25

 However, the Parker "51" pli-glass sacs happen to be made of PVC.

Indeed they were. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

With regard to silicone rubber, Wikipedia notes that "Silicone rubber is highly inert and does not react with most chemicals. Due to its inertness, it is used in many medical applications including medical implants."



#34 drgt

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 21:51

I wonder if anyone tried to use clear silicone tubing inside the barrel.

 

The thicker, the more will isolate and reduce the ink capacity.



#35 Inkling13

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 23:00

I would think that there is no way to escape the laws of physics, and modifying a feed/channel is a recipe for ruining a pen or at least changing its performance down the road. My suggestion would be to get some stainless ball bearings or something inert, like a short rod of acrylic to take up space in your eye dropper. Acrylic seems better since it is lighter than filling up your pen with steel shot. 

The reason is that any volume of air will expand with heat from your hand. The emptier your pen, the bigger the reservoir of air, and bigger the expansion. Today's modern feeds are capable of buffering quite a large amount of ink, but even those have limits. Once you reach that limit, in old or new feeds, you burp. 

With something inert taking up space in your eye dropper, you need less ink, and less ink means less air. This mod is reversible, in the case your tastes or habits change. 



#36 drgt

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 07:11

No, I am not talking modifying the feed.

 

The silicone tube idea is similar to the acrylic rod, except that the ink will be further away from the hand warmth since it will be inside the tubing.

 

For the Noodler Charlie, for example, whose barrel inside diameter is 7 mm, one could try:

 

https://www.advanced...bing-2458-p.asp

 

https://www.advanced...bing-2452-p.asp

 

https://www.advanced...bing-2448-p.asp



#37 drgt

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 10:03

I tried the above, did not work.

I also tried using a G2 properly cut refill, sealed of the cap hole with candle wax and used the G2 spring to push the refill against the feeder as I was screwing the feeder into the barrel.

That worked till the refill was almost empty, then it both burped and filled the gap between the refill and the barrel with ink.

 

Obviously the surfaces are such, a good seal cannot be made between the refill and the feeder.

 

En route are the 4mm acrylic beads, I will report on that.

 

*Pen used: Noodler's Charlie


Edited by drgt, 03 February 2018 - 10:05.


#38 ASCIIaardvark

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 00:41

Maybe if you had an air gap in your insert? Like a double-walled teacup, the air then acts as an insulator and isn't allowed to expand.

 

 

I actually have the opposite "problem" with my Indian ebonite eyedroppers -- as they run low on ink I get hard-starts to let me know it's time for a refill. I'm not sure what I'm doing different that's causing it...

  • Maybe 'cause I keep them in a breast-pocket or clipped to my vest? So they're pre-heated when I go to use them.
  • Maybe 'cause I cut the ink channel extra-deep to make 'em wet, so there's more space for air to escape while it's nib-up?
  • Maybe 'cause I use wide/flex nibs they go thru any extra ink faster?

Edited by ASCIIaardvark, 06 February 2018 - 18:57.


#39 drgt

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 07:04

There is a gap between the refill and the barrel. Read the post carefully.

 

All 3 might be causes of your problem.



#40 drgt

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 07:58

I tried the above, did not work.

I also tried using a G2 properly cut refill, sealed of the cap hole with candle wax and used the G2 spring to push the refill against the feeder as I was screwing the feeder into the barrel.

That worked till the refill was almost empty, then it both burped and filled the gap between the refill and the barrel with ink.

 

Obviously the surfaces are such, a good seal cannot be made between the refill and the feeder.

 

En route are the 4mm acrylic beads, I will report on that.

 

*Pen used: Noodler's Charlie

Update:

The beads will reduce the burping but will NOT eliminate it.







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