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Any Suggestions For Reducing Burping With Ed And Piston Fillers?

eyedropper piston fill

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#1 edebill

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 23:47

I've found myself really liking some larger pens that are either eye-dropper filled or piston filled. Both of these fill methods hold a lot of ink, and both seem prone to burping as the pen warms up in my hand.

 

Sadly, I like to change inks pretty regularly, so always keeping these high volume pens chock full of ink doesn't seem like an attractive idea.

 

Any suggestions for other ways to cut down on burping? Pens I've had it happen with:  Airmail/Wality 71J[T], FPR Dilli, Hamraj 1208, and TWSBI Diamond 580.

 

I've not had any trouble with any of my cartridge converter pens - I think the combination of lower capacity and an air gap to insulate the ink reservoir from my hand helps.

 

 



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#2 jar

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 03:02

Nope, the solution is to keep the pen full. Sorry but them's the facts Jack.


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#3 balson

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 05:14

if its a modern pen with an ebonite feed, and your open to modifying it, there are a couple of options out there that might help a bit for eyedroppers.  for ideas you should look at the later eyedroppers from 1900-1915.  some eyedroppers had a wire going out of the back, much like a breather tube on later pens, that might be an easy one to try.   http://www.richardsp.../luckycurve.htm

 

some people have also use wax to decrease the amount of ink capacity.  for instructions on that you should check the forums here.  



#4 Paddler

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 14:03

You can eliminate the burping by warming the pen while holding it nib-up. When you are not writing, keep the pen clipped in your shirt pocket. At the end of the day, store the pen nib-up while it cools. Problem solved. This is how people coped with the burping problem with the MK1 and MK2 versions of the Parker 21.


Edited by Paddler, 25 February 2015 - 14:05.

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#5 torstar

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 14:30

Nope, the solution is to keep the pen full. Sorry but them's the facts Jack.

 

 

But that would eliminate finding streaks of purple ink on carpets, the floor, your shirt, the walls



#6 edebill

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 14:51

if its a modern pen with an ebonite feed, and your open to modifying it, there are a couple of options out there that might help a bit for eyedroppers.  for ideas you should look at the later eyedroppers from 1900-1915.  some eyedroppers had a wire going out of the back, much like a breather tube on later pens, that might be an easy one to try.   http://www.richardsp.../luckycurve.htm

 

 

Oh, nice. Yes - I can certainly try adding a wire. I also notice that these feeds I'm having trouble with don't have much in the way of Christmas tree grooves, and that article calls those out as a buffering countermeasure for this problem. That makes three different approaches I could try.  Thank you!



#7 deepak23

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 15:05

 
 
But that would eliminate finding streaks of purple ink on carpets, the floor, your shirt, the walls


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#8 Rita_K

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 16:13

You might find this video by Kevin of Fountain Pen Revolution helpful.

 

How To fix a leaky eyedropper



#9 rwilsonedn

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 16:32

There are many good threads on the subject, most of which have probably ended up in the Indian regional focus section. A quick summary would be: What Paddler said. A little care in handling solves most of the problems. It just means taking a minute or two (not 20 seconds) holding the pen in your hand nib-up before you first begin to write.

Another approach is to swap out the feed for one with more capacity to collect and store the excess ink. The feeds from Sheaffer Nononsense pens seem to fit most Indian ED pens, but I have no idea what would fit the TWSBI. And you can always just fill the ink chamber most of the way up with wax, plastic beads, or anything else that won't expand as it warms and won't react with the ink.

Enjoy!

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#10 torstar

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 18:48

Inky hands...you forgot inky hands...

 

Kind of a given in this hobby...

 

Seeing a streak of American Blue on a white wall and realizing it's the ink from your cheap-o eyedrop isn't part of the bargain.



#11 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 20:16

Don't have a Twsbi..or ED. Don't have any problem with a piston pen....got lots...40+ mostly old German ones...

 

The instructions in the old '50's Pelikan and MB papers said let three drops out of the pen when filled.

First that lets in some air.....might stop just filled burping....so let a bit of ink out of the Twsbi....

 

Burping with ED's is one of the reasons folks went away to them to the burp proof, rubber sac Conklin and later Sheaffer in 1912.

The rubber sac acts as insulation...keeping heat from expanding the ink. 

 

Got to fill that thing more often...to prevent burping, as Jar says.


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#12 tmenyc

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 21:31

As Bo Bo says above, when you fillo the ED, re-place the barrel into the threads, and as you turn it onto the threads, turn the pen upside down over your still-open ink bottle.  As you shorten the pen, a few drops will be forced out by the compression of the air in the barrel.  That helps a lot.  

 

Tim



#13 mhosea

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 23:27

The burping is a consequence of having large capacity for ink storage in the barrel without enough capacity for ink storage in the feed to absorb burps when they occur. This is why pens with large capacity feeds don't suffer as much (e.g. Pelikan M1000, MB 149, Platinum Preppy). What keeping the pen full does is reduce the effective ink capacity of the barrel. In effect, you're using some ink to take up space so that this space will not be filled with air instead. Air is "stretchy" to begin with, and it expands and contracts with temperature much more than ink. But ink as a space-filler is only one possibility. Instead of using ink to fill space, you can use a suitable solid, something that doesn't react with ink and won't interfere with the flow of ink down the barrel and into the feed. A rod of hard rubber might work well, though you might need to cut deep notches in the rod at the end facing the feed so that if it slides forward it can't prevent ink from reaching the feed.

Edited by mhosea, 25 February 2015 - 23:56.

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#14 rockydoggy

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 00:05

Except for my Recife Crystal pens (which have been leak-free from the start), I’ve had a major problem with ink-burping with almost all of the eyedroppers I’ve purchased over the years.  I’ve switched out nibs and feeds on some of them using ones from NoNonesense pens makes a difference, but only in a few cases.  Warming the pen by holding it upright also helps a bit, but I often want simply to grab a pen and write without waiting; and some of my pens still burped anyway.  Topping off the pen with ink helps, though I rotate pens frequently and would prefer not to keep a large-capacity pen filled just so I can use it.  Of course, this may mean that eyedroppers aren’t for me; I admit that I’m being stubborn.  In any case, after reading about the Pilot Tank eyedropper that has an insert to lessen its ink capacity-- http://www.fountainp...ive-pilot-tank/ --I decided to try that approach. 

 

I hunted around a while and finally settled on small plastic beads.  I was assuming that they’d be pretty stable when exposed to ink.  Also, I could easily adjust the given pen's capacity.  Besides, the clear ones would look cool in transparent barrels.  Here’s an example of what I’ve been using (no connex to the vendor):

http://www.ebay.com/...=item4176b4365b

I wonder if the fact that the beads are pierced makes a difference—I suspect not.  In fact, I’m not at all certain that this strategy is a guaranteed fix; however, it seems to be curbing the leak-problem in several eyedroppers that I’ve not been able to use previously.



#15 mhosea

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 01:04

I hunted around a while and finally settled on small plastic beads.  I was assuming that they’d be pretty stable when exposed to ink.  Also, I could easily adjust the given pen's capacity.  Besides, the clear ones would look cool in transparent barrels.


That's a pretty cool idea.   :thumbup: 


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#16 rockydoggy

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 12:34

Thanks.

 

One cautionary note:  The first time I cleaned out a pen containing some beads, I wasn't thinking and lost them down the drain (not that I didn't have a slew more given that they sell them by the dozens).  I now use a tea strainer or something like that.  I'll see how this whole experiment works out over the long haul.



#17 mhosea

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 17:15

You could buy some stainless steel wire and string however many you want together.

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#18 Tresconik

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 17:44

Your TWSBI shouldn't burp.. check that everything is set properly.



#19 rockydoggy

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 19:35

I've never had trouble with my TWSBIs or any other of my piston-fill pens.

Just eyedroppers.



#20 dneal

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 19:43

The burping is a consequence of having large capacity for ink storage in the barrel without enough capacity for ink storage in the feed to absorb burps when they occur.

 

This.

 

Note how more modern feeds have significantly more "fins" than older feeds.  This makes for a larger total surface area for the ink to spread to as the air warms and expands (which pushes the ink from the reservoir).







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