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Scabiosa Or Not ?

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#1 Armand.D

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 18:11

Hello all, I am currently hesitating between wide posibilities about a great ink/pen combo for crappy paper.

 

 

In fact I am planning to work everyday with this set :

 

  • FPR Triveni Jr / Sailor Jentle Blue
  • Lamy Safari F / PR Fiesta red (to underline)
  • Pilot parallel / ...? (for big titles) (at home)

 

+ This for crappy paper, and I woud like also for less big titles,

 

so like this I will be able to have a pen for two different purposes (better for me and my wallet, mostly more convenient if the ink will be with the Parallel).

 

 

 

The inks :

 

  • I am here to ask you if Scabiosa would be a great competitor, but what annoy me is that it will be very dry (I've tried Salix for comparison) among with a narrow-nibbed pen...

 

My crappy paper →  Cheap feathering-prone school copy paper, and it is more to make little notes on texts with

 

highlighting.

 

  • Otherwise I wondered about blacks before, and I have currently Perle noire but not tested in narrow-nibs (I thinked to a 78G but with con-50 I think that for the price there are better options).

I can also order some samples of X-feather or Noodler's black for example.

 

 

  • I don't know if there are more to consider,  maybe more polyvalent about the flow or drying time, I am open to other colour than black/ "classic" colours, I want it to be distinguable and readable easily.

 

Scabiosa interested me because before I was thinking about Herbin PDL, I would love to use it everyday !

 

You will surely recommend me basic inks like watermans, pilot.. (no judgments) I guess.

 

 

About pens :

 

I am talking about narrow-nibs (F,EF) because this is what I am used to (western F), and because I think that for this purpose it is more adapted.

 

I have thinked about the Nemosine Singularity, not very expensive but I don't need/want to spend really much more,

 

this might be good because of the nib choices :

 

  • Does 0.6/0.8 Italic on this would work well (flow) with Scabiosa ? (also Knox K35 possible)

 

  • If yes, super good, otherwise does my Safari with a 1.1 would be too wide for this purpose, I have not tested the nib yet ?

 

  • If Scabiosa is that dry maybe with a western M nib the line will be not too big and the flow good ?

 

Or do you have other pens to recommend  ?

 

 

Finally :

 

Maybe I am confused, but there are a lot of options and I hope that you will be able to help me in this choice.

 

Hoping this thread is readable,

 

Thank you ! ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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#2 Cyber6

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 19:17

Honestly.. unless the ink is the worst ink in the world and the paper is the quality of toilet paper....  You are pretty safe with the majority of inks out there on a medium flow Fine/ExtraFine nib.

 

I love wet Broads and Stubs ... they dump a lot of ink on the regular copy paper used in my office.  Only a few inks happen to be bad for my office paper.  Most inks handle themselves.  Using medium nibs usually solves my problem.

 

 

 

 

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#3 Armand.D

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 19:52

Honestly.. unless the ink is the worst ink in the world and the paper is the quality of toilet paper....  You are pretty safe with the majority of inks out there on a medium flow Fine/ExtraFine nib.

 

I love wet Broads and Stubs ... they dump a lot of ink on the regular copy paper used in my office.  Only a few inks happen to be bad for my office paper.  Most inks handle themselves.  Using medium nibs usually solves my problem.

 

 

 

 

C.

Well, ok.

I will order some samples and will try to see with various nibs, I keep the Nemosine in mind (really any recommendation ?).



#4 hypnostene

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 21:34

I am somewhat partial to Scabiosa, which in a wet pen looks to me almost the same as j. Herbin PdL, but the way it changes colour is much neater (and it's significantly cheaper). It works in dryer pens, but loses sone of its charm then in my eyes. It needs wetness to really stand out. It works wonderfully with a wet 1.1 mm italic.

I use Perle noir in fine and extra fine nibs (Japanese fine). It works flawlessly and has a great shade of black. It should be fine for your purposes.

OTOH I recommend checking out R&K Verdigris as an alternative 'serious' colour. It's awesome ; )

#5 Nokin

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 23:17

+1 for Verdigris - I have pens inked with both at the moment, and whilst I'm very happy with Scabiosa, I feel Verdigris has more impact.
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#6 amberleadavis

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 01:09

If you like Salix, and you like Scabiossa, try mixing them. The color is wonderful, the performance is better than Scabiossa on it's own and it's wetter ink.

 

I really have been enjoying my Pilot Parallel (I think the 6.0 mm is the only way, I will finish my inks during this lifetime).  Nevertheless, every ink I've tried on almost every paper (Poster Board should not count), wants to bleed through if you let that pen drag too long.  I'd limit myself to a smaller size.  

 

As often happens, I agree with Cyber6, most inks don't misbehave until you are using really wide - fat - broad or stub nibs OR have your nibs modified to be wetter. 

 

Finally, samples are a great way to start.  My recommendation is to journal your thoughts about each pen / ink combo.  That way, you are documenting your preferences.


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#7 Armand.D

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 19:17

+1 for Verdigris - I have pens inked with both at the moment, and whilst I'm very happy with Scabiosa, I feel Verdigris has more impact.

 

 

I am somewhat partial to Scabiosa, which in a wet pen looks to me almost the same as j. Herbin PdL, but the way it changes colour is much neater (and it's significantly cheaper). It works in dryer pens, but loses sone of its charm then in my eyes. It needs wetness to really stand out. It works wonderfully with a wet 1.1 mm italic.

I use Perle noir in fine and extra fine nibs (Japanese fine). It works flawlessly and has a great shade of black. It should be fine for your purposes.

OTOH I recommend checking out R&K Verdigris as an alternative 'serious' colour. It's awesome ; )

Just saw some reviews, it's seems to be pretty-well behaved and always described as a good ink,

here I prefer purple, but this go to my Blue/BB ink samples to get :)

 

Thanks !



#8 Armand.D

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 19:40

If you like Salix, and you like Scabiossa, try mixing them. The color is wonderful, the performance is better than Scabiossa on it's own and it's wetter ink.

 

I really have been enjoying my Pilot Parallel (I think the 6.0 mm is the only way, I will finish my inks during this lifetime).  Nevertheless, every ink I've tried on almost every paper (Poster Board should not count), wants to bleed through if you let that pen drag too long.  I'd limit myself to a smaller size.  

 

As often happens, I agree with Cyber6, most inks don't misbehave until you are using really wide - fat - broad or stub nibs OR have your nibs modified to be wetter. 

 

Finally, samples are a great way to start.  My recommendation is to journal your thoughts about each pen / ink combo.  That way, you are documenting your preferences.

Thank you for the detailed answer !

 

I think that I will go for samples of both or even bottles as I am almost sold, the mix called "Purplix" by Carlos.q is intrusting me a lot,

especially because there is Waterman purple in it (good inks, good priced, seems to behave well and saturated).

 

I allow myself to post a picture of it :wub:

 

fpn_1392046575__purples1.jpg

 

But I need advices, because I'm new to ink recipes (I have syringes and, will have to get pipettes).

I don't understand the "parts" proportions, can you explain me what does it means ?

 

  • Does a part = 1ml or a drop of ink (like with pipette) ?

 

Otherwise, journaling is a good idea.

+ I would say that it seems difficult to me to write with stubs (at least with 1.1),

 

  • I just tried one on my Safari and I found that it is too thick to my taste for normal use, also I am a lefty overwriter and I need at first some effort, what is a little annoying.

 

So, for now I stay on the Nemosine as I find the choice convenient because of the nibs, I will probably take it still with a stub (0.6) but with Knox spare nibs.

.. For the Safari I don't know if I stay with fine for underlining, or if you would recommend other ones,

 

Let's focus on Inks ;)

(and thank you)



#9 amberleadavis

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 21:04

Okay, I love the bottom color, but mix in the vial and wait a day before using. You are mixing IG inks with another ink so you could have a chemical reaction.  Thus, wait and see if it has precipitate or seems thick.  If it has any strange properties, don't use the mix in your pen.

 

1 Part can be 1 ml, 1 qt or 1 drop, it's just the measurement proportion.  So, 1:2 is One unit of the first and TWO equally sized units of the second.  So, If you are using drops a 1:2 Scabiossa / Salix mix would be 1 drop of Scabiossa with 2 drops of Salis for a total of three drops.

 

I hope that helps.


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What do I like about my handwriting? 

Whose handwriting do I like?  

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#10 Armand.D

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 07:09

Okay, I love the bottom color, but mix in the vial and wait a day before using. You are mixing IG inks with another ink so you could have a chemical reaction.  Thus, wait and see if it has precipitate or seems thick.  If it has any strange properties, don't use the mix in your pen.

 

1 Part can be 1 ml, 1 qt or 1 drop, it's just the measurement proportion.  So, 1:2 is One unit of the first and TWO equally sized units of the second.  So, If you are using drops a 1:2 Scabiossa / Salix mix would be 1 drop of Scabiossa with 2 drops of Salis for a total of three drops.

 

I hope that helps.

Ok, and then at the bottom it is 3 drops with one drop of each according to this.

I will not precipitate myself and soon order a sample of both with vials and inkwells.

 

I will see if there are anything strange,

I think I will keep my researchs in this direction,

 

Thank you.



#11 Runnin_Ute

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 03:36

When I first tried Scabiosa (it was my first IG ink) I put it in my Pelikan M205 with a M nib. Such a lovely color. I kept saying it is going to be the next ink I buy. I am still saying it. Not because I didn't like it (I bought two vials of the stuff) but because I don't think I have ordered any ink since then.

 

I want to try Salix too. (I am a big blue black fan) I have 4-5 pens with blue blacks in them at present. (one I wouldn't buy, but hey its vintage and I wanted to try it. Two are rock solid and the other two are also vintage, same ink mixed slightly different - love them both.

 

I have even tried making my own blue black. Mixing Blue Cashmere and Black Cashmere.....

 


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#12 Armand.D

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 14:44

When I first tried Scabiosa (it was my first IG ink) I put it in my Pelikan M205 with a M nib. Such a lovely color. I kept saying it is going to be the next ink I buy. I am still saying it. Not because I didn't like it (I bought two vials of the stuff) but because I don't think I have ordered any ink since then.

 

I want to try Salix too. (I am a big blue black fan) I have 4-5 pens with blue blacks in them at present. (one I wouldn't buy, but hey its vintage and I wanted to try it. Two are rock solid and the other two are also vintage, same ink mixed slightly different - love them both.

 

I have even tried making my own blue black. Mixing Blue Cashmere and Black Cashmere.....

 

I don't know in what pen I will test the samples that I ordered,

 

but I see well the Purplix mix into a Metropolitan Violet Leopard :)

(have to wait for the 2-pack drop..)



#13 jcgara

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 03:32

I haven't used Scabiosa, but I have used Salix on very crappy paper - bad copy paper and legal pads that look like paper towels. Salix in a Pilot Metro Fine is the only ink that will write a narrow line without bleeding. Even Pelikan Blue-Black will bleed on these papers. I think Scabiosa is worth a try...



#14 ENewton

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 13:34

I have used Scabiosa every day for several months in a Japanese medium point pen, loving the shading and especially how different the ink looks on different papers, varying from pale lilac to almost black.  As for change in the color over time, it is not one of those iron gall inks that change in seconds before one's eyes, but recently I have been looking at some notes I wrote two months ago; originally the lines were a dusty grape color, but now they are a unique coppery lilac.  



#15 Armand.D

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 14:05

I haven't used Scabiosa, but I have used Salix on very crappy paper - bad copy paper and legal pads that look like paper towels. Salix in a Pilot Metro Fine is the only ink that will write a narrow line without bleeding. Even Pelikan Blue-Black will bleed on these papers. I think Scabiosa is worth a try...

 

Coming-back to the thread I don't need anymore IG inks , but I agree that Salix can be very tolerant to cheaper paper.. even though the cheapest I have is Muji.

 

I prefer Scabiosa to Salix for its more original color (kind of bordeaux, "smoky-purple") which will vary with the paper.

I also find it wetter, that's better as I use mostly fine nibs.

 

Armand.D



#16 Armand.D

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 14:13

I have used Scabiosa every day for several months in a Japanese medium point pen, loving the shading and especially how different the ink looks on different papers, varying from pale lilac to almost black.  As for change in the color over time, it is not one of those iron gall inks that change in seconds before one's eyes, but recently I have been looking at some notes I wrote two months ago; originally the lines were a dusty grape color, but now they are a unique coppery lilac.  

 

I agree with you about the color.

 

I have currently a sample inked in my Safari Fine and on Clairefontaine/Rhodia paper there can be a lot of shading ; as well as color-variation.

When putted on the paper it looks like pale-purple and when it dries it appears as a kind of smoky-bordeaux, "grape" color as you said.

 

It's not an ink that I will use daily but if I had to choose for an IG ink I think it would be this one for its original color ; I would use it in a M western nib for more smoothness :)







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