Jump to content

dragos.mocanu

Recommended Posts

Recently I've started thinking about getting into real calligraphy (not just messing around with my Noodler's Ahab), so I went ahead and ordered a Speedball oblique holder just to see if this style suits me...and what do you know, it does! The only problem I have is that I can't insert my currently favorite nib (the Leonardt Steno) in the holder so that the point aligns with the center of the shaft. I started researching and found out that I need an adjustable holder, with a metal flange...

 

Now comes the problem, I really like both the Century and the Zanerian holders, and can't decide which to buy. And to complicate things further, the Zanerian also comes in a shorter version (that long shaft looks pretty thin and fragile?!), and the Century in a thicker version...

 

And then there's the Hourglass Adjustable, with the fixed flange and adjustable by screw.

 

I should mention that I do find the Speedball's grip to be a bit thin.

 

Any advice will be helpful! Thank you!

 

Edit: And then there's the very straightforward, minimalistic (= form follows function), Paper and Ink Arts Adjustable holder (PIA) http://www.paperinkarts.com/piaobl---ros.html ...I'm really not interested in ornament, I just want a holder that's versatile and comfortable to use

Edited by Murky

"The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true..." (Carl Sagan)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 35
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • YokePenCo

    12

  • dragos.mocanu

    10

  • prasadvenkat

    4

  • Randal6393

    3

I am in the same boat, perhaps we should paddle together? I was advised to go for the Zanerian, probably because I was making noises about the long tailed styles which I happen to find appealing. One of the worries for me is that I have a selection of different nibs and cannot really justify buying multiple holders for each one, so I hope most can be persuaded to fit the Zanerian.

 

In any case there should be an expert along soon to set us all to rights! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After a bit more research, I'm now wondering if the adjustable holders (like the Hourglass or the Paper and Ink Arts from...Paper and Ink Arts :D ) have any disadvantages compared to the Zanerian type (like the Zanerian or the Century)...because they sure do have a great advantage..that of versatility.

"The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true..." (Carl Sagan)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The most useable holder I have found is the Blackwell Oblique Holder, found at John Neal Bookseller (www.johnnealbooks.com). The set screw allows for using nibs as small as the Brause 66EF and goes up to the largest dip nib I have tried. Not so much a pretty holder as a functional one. Cost is currently $40.00 for the wood and $29.50 for the plastic version.

 

My holder is the wood one and I wouldn't attempt Copperplate without it.

 

Best of luck,

 

PS: Try the Esterbrook 351 along with this holder -- very pleasant vintage nib.

Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use both the Peerless Oblique (which looks like it was made using a Speedball holder) and the PIA Hourglass Adjustable holder. I like them both. Although I was surprised that the PIA Hourglass holder is about the same length as the Peerless. I thought it was longer.

 

I have not tried other holders, so I cannot comment on them.

The Blackwell has intrigued me for a while, and I may get one of them.

 

I think the length is something you have to try to see if you like it or not. I've used desk pens with long tapers/tails, so I kinda like a longer pen, to me it feels good to write with. Others who have never used a long pen may feel it is clumsy. If you take care of your pen, and don't fence with it, it should be just fine.

 

I read comments that one should have holders dedicated to nib sizes, and that is what I have done. The Peerless has my Nikko G, and the PIA Hourglass has my Esterbrook 556. That way I don't have to adjust the holder for the different nib when I change nibs, I just grab the holder that fits the nib. The Blackwell holder may be the solution here.

San Francisco Pen Show - August 28-30, 2020 - Redwood City, California

www.SFPenShow.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for the anserws. However, I decided to buy from Paper and Ink Arts because they accept Paypal for international orders, so the Blackwell Oblique Holder is out of question.

 

What I actually want to know is if there is noticeable difference in functionality (ease of adjustment mostly) between the 4 holders I mentioned: the Zanerian, the Century, the Hourglass adjustable and the PIA adjustable...I mean, why is the Century (which is the best looking IMHO) $20 when the Zanerian is $35...they employ the same flange system. Thanks again.

"The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true..." (Carl Sagan)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have all of the holders you described, and in your position, I would buy the thinner of the two Century holders. It's well-balanced, not too thick and not too thin. It's a good length and not in the least fragile and it has an adjustable, metal flange - and it's not too expensive.

 

Ken

Edited by Ken Fraser
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for the anserws. However, I decided to buy from Paper and Ink Arts because they accept Paypal for international orders, so the Blackwell Oblique Holder is out of question.

 

What I actually want to know is if there is noticeable difference in functionality (ease of adjustment mostly) between the 4 holders I mentioned: the Zanerian, the Century, the Hourglass adjustable and the PIA adjustable...I mean, why is the Century (which is the best looking IMHO) $20 when the Zanerian is $35...they employ the same flange system. Thanks again.

HI Murky,

If you are serious about using pointed pens then the adjustable brass flange is the way to go.

 

Of the holders you mentioned I use the Hourglass Adjustable and the ⅝" century oblique (larger grip area than the century)

Both of these are great holders.

I cannot say for sure about the pricing, but the Zanerian could be more expensive as it is rosewood and 8" long compared to the century which is 6.5" long. Not sure.

 

The hourglass is better than the normal adjustable primarily because of the shape. Also, I am not very sure if the normal adjustable has this, perhaps someone who has used it could comment, But the Hourglass has the flange set at an angle giving a better nib to paper angle.

 

Compared to the Century the Hourglass had options to use a wider variety of nibs.

I use G nibs (Zebra and Nikko), Leonardt Princ EF, Crowquills, Easterbrook 355/354/356 and Vintage Blanzy 2552 (huge nib) in this with no problems.

One issue with the hourglass is that you need to have some tool handy to unscrew and tighten the flange every time you change a nib.

 

The Hourglass is generally out of stock as it is a very very popular holder, but if you have the time I would highly recommend this holder.

 

I now make my own holders and almost have 1 holder per nib type :) . But until you reach that stage, the Hourglass is the most versatile.

 

-Prasad

 

P.S. posted before I saw Ken's reply. Consider his advice very seriously. He is a Master and his advice is always spot on.

 

@ Ken - Perhaps you could also shed some light on your experience with the Adjustable Hourglass.

Edited by prasadvenkat
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ken - Perhaps you could also shed some light on your experience with the Adjustable Hourglass.

Whilst I specifically mentioned the Century holder, the others mentioned are all worth having and it's just a matter of preference.

 

I have two PIA adjustable oblique penholders. They are well worth having as they take almost all nibs in their ingeniously designed flanges. I use one in the normal way and have built the other into an oblique pencil holder which can be used anywhere for practice. If you go to the IAMPETH site - lessons, click on "Building an oblique pencil" and scroll down to the second page, you'll see a photo of a holder with a pencil in place.

 

I now use beautiful holders from Brian Smith aka "Unique Obliques". They are wonderful but perhaps a little expensive for beginners.

 

Ken

Edited by Ken Fraser
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks again everyone for the suggestions; I may go for the standard Century, since all my currently favorite nibs (as well as the ones I want to try) will fit with no problems. And after I've learned a bit more, I'll try one (or ...two ... this is already getting addictive and I didn't even get my first serious holder) of the adjustables.

 

 

EDIT:

After reading Randal's post again, I've started researching a bit about the Blackwell, and it is indeed a very interesting one. I've checked with JohnNeal's and it turns out they do accept Paypal for international orders, so, to complicate my choice further, this holder is an option too now.

It seems to be especially easy to maintain (because there are no slots), and of course very versatile. However, some reviewers mentioned it to be front heavy..although I don't know why that would be a defect (I actually enjoy a fountain pen that leans more to the front...could it be different with oblique holders?).

Has anyone else tried this seemingly simple, yet so versatile holder? And what about the differences between the Blackwell and the Hourglass adjustables, in terms of functionality?

Edited by Murky

"The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true..." (Carl Sagan)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Blackwell holder is very front heavy and you also have to be very careful that you do not over-tighten the screw which secures the nib. If you tighten the screw too much, it can splay the nib tines apart causing damage to the nib or a horrible writing experience.

 

If you are a beginner, I highly suggest the PIA Adjustable Hourglass. Although a little more expensive than the other style production holders, the ability of the Bullock style flange on the Adjustable Hourglass to accommodate different nibs without major readjustment allows you to easily learn what nib you prefer by swapping nibs out easily without the worry of nib damage. You can see my thoughts in the review section of the pen on Paper and Ink Arts website. I should mention that I in no way am associated with that pen and make nothing off of the sale of them.

 

In regards to the size of the pen it is slightly larger in diameter than the speedball you currently own.

 

http://www.paperinkarts.com/hourgl.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The current problem with the Hourglass Adjustable is that it is listed as out-of-stock. As for the Blackwell, well, I don't know what front-heavy means. Mine seems well-balanced to my hand.

 

I am tempted to try the Ziller Oblique offered by Paper & Ink Arts. Looks like a decent holder, has the classic long-staff, and takes the Zebra G nib. Cost is around $10.00, which is an excellent price.

 

Enjoy,

Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Randal,

 

Holders are very personal, I guess a more correct statement would be the Blackwell is more front heavy than other production holders. The brass, which is most of the mass of the pen, is placed at the foot which is a very different writing experience than most pen holders. The majority of scribes prefer very little weight on the front of the holder, but again, this is a personal choice.

 

In regards to the Ziller, I know that they are adjusted for specific nibs, but any of them or any other brass flange holder can be adjusted to fit most nibs very easily. So never let a "it's brass flange is adjusted for a particular nib" sway you from purchasing a pen holder you might enjoy. Also a note, the Ziller does have a hexagonal shape to the staff, hard to see in the images (not that this is a negative point, just a note of reference, since I own every production holder there is).

 

A short video I made on how to adjust a flange to fit a particular nib is below.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6ElXzVzGP4

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, YokePenCompany,

 

Your firm makes some very lovely oblique holders! And your video covered the flange adjustment very nicely. Thanks for your kind words.

 

@FPN'ers, if you want to see some lovely holders (and maybe get one for your desk), take a look at the Yoke Pen Company's offering. By a new member, here at FPN.

 

And, :W2FPN: , guys.

Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[...](not that this is a negative point, just a note of reference, since I own every production holder there is).

 

A short video I made on how to adjust a flange to fit a particular nib is below.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6ElXzVzGP4

 

Thanks again for the answers; however, as Randal pointed out, the Hourglass adjustable is currently out of stock (and I don't know when they'll re-supply)...they do have another holder with the same flange: http://www.paperinkarts.com/piaobl---ros.html , does anyone know how that compares to the Hourglass adjustable? (grip diameter, balance etc).

 

Edit: Sorry for all the nagging questions...living in Europe is hard when you need stuff made only in the USA.

Edited by Murky

"The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true..." (Carl Sagan)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Straight Handle Adjustable Oblique is a small diameter pen, 3/8", it will be small like your current. The hourglass holder is made in small batches and they quickly sell out due to low quantity. If you contact PIA, I would be willing to bet, they should be able to tell you how long before the next shipment arrives and you can pre-order if you feel it acceptable time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The quality of the straight handle holder is the same as the hourglass, and the flange is identical, but the shape is vastly inferior in my opinion. It just doesn't fit the hand anywhere near as well and the flange is not angled to the plane of the paper. Even if you have to wait a while for an hourglass holder, I would not recommend buying the straight holder in the meantime.

 

I'm also not a fan of the Bullock holders. I do use one sometimes when I want to quickly try out a nib, but I find that for actual work the screw holder does not work that well, letting the nib slip if too loose and, as Mr Yoke pointed out, deforming the nib if too tight (and the Goldilocks zone is pretty narrow in my experience). The balance is also not to my liking, and the overall quality is not as high as that of the PIA hourglass oblique.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess a more correct statement would be the Blackwell is more front heavy than other production holders.

 

Also a note, the Ziller does have a hexagonal shape to the staff, hard to see in the images (not that this is a negative point, just a note of reference, since I own every production holder there is).

 

A short video I made on how to adjust a flange to fit a particular nib is below.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6ElXzVzGP4

HI Chris,

Welcome to the FPN. Seeing all your stuff on the FF I thought you would be a long time member here.

 

@ others...

Chris of Yokepen is a genius at making Oblique holders and has done a lot of study and research into the holders. His site will show you the amazing holders he makes, both his own designs and replicas of classic holders.

 

He also has great videos on Adjusting holders (link that he has given) and also how to make flanges if you are interested in making your own holders.

 

Again, he has bought, studied and used all production holders and incorporated a lot into his own designs. His advice on the technical aspects of holders is spot on.

 

The quality of the straight handle holder is the same as the hourglass, and the flange is identical, but the shape is vastly inferior in my opinion. It just doesn't fit the hand anywhere near as well and the flange is not angled to the plane of the paper.

Thanks for this confirmation dhnz, I was not sure if the flange angle in the Hourglass was replicated in the straight handle too.

 

@ Murky...

As suggested, write off to PIA and they will reply immediately with an availability schedule. You should pre-order the hourglass Oblique as it is really a great and very versatile holder.

 

-Prasad

 

(No affiliation to Yokepens, just an ardent admirer )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The quality of the straight handle holder is the same as the hourglass, and the flange is identical, but the shape is vastly inferior in my opinion. It just doesn't fit the hand anywhere near as well and the flange is not angled to the plane of the paper. Even if you have to wait a while for an hourglass holder, I would not recommend buying the straight holder in the meantime.

 

I'm also not a fan of the Bullock holders. I do use one sometimes when I want to quickly try out a nib, but I find that for actual work the screw holder does not work that well, letting the nib slip if too loose and, as Mr Yoke pointed out, deforming the nib if too tight (and the Goldilocks zone is pretty narrow in my experience). The balance is also not to my liking, and the overall quality is not as high as that of the PIA hourglass oblique.

 

Both correct points. The Straight Adjustable does not have the upward cant applied to the nib in the nib slot. It can be bent though to replicate the same angle. I myself would wait for an hourglass as well.

 

I think above when you mention Bullock, you mean Blackwell. Two very different flanges

 

post-112338-0-86547000-1422374831_thumb.gif

Blackwell

 

post-112338-0-10003200-1422374833.gif

Bullock

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HI Chris,

Welcome to the FPN. Seeing all your stuff on the FF I thought you would be a long time member here.

 

@ others...

Chris of Yokepen is a genius at making Oblique holders and has done a lot of study and research into the holders. His site will show you the amazing holders he makes, both his own designs and replicas of classic holders.

 

He also has great videos on Adjusting holders (link that he has given) and also how to make flanges if you are interested in making your own holders.

 

Again, he has bought, studied and used all production holders and incorporated a lot into his own designs. His advice on the technical aspects of holders is spot on.

 

-Prasad

 

(No affiliation to Yokepens, just an ardent admirer )

 

Lol, thanks Prasad! Not sure about the genius point, my wife would beg to differ, lol. I'm simply spinning wood real fast and learning all I can about Pen Holders :)

 

I have as he said done tons of research and own many many pen holders (both antique and new production). This allows me to first study them and secondly have a point of reference when a custom requests a custom order. For example if they want a Magnusson clone I can duplicate it exactly because I own one, the same goes for shapes of modern holders. If they like the grip of say a PIA Adjustable hourglass, I can apply that shape to a custom order, because again I have that pen.

 

All of this info has taken me several years to acquire and instead of keeping it all for myself, I try to spread the knowledge around with things such as videos, many email conversations with people who aspire to make their own pen holder and the upcoming free eBook. There was many years where penman were left with no source of anything close to the antique holders I now replicate, and it is my hope by providing all of this information, those antique designs & construction methods are never lost again.

 

-Christopher

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33494
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26627
    5. jar
      jar
      26101
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...