Are Fine Tip Nibs For Noobs

[Nick13]

Hello,

 

I have been collecting fountain owns for quite a while, and almost ask of my pens have a fine nib. As many have mentioned, a fine nib can be much more versatile, on cheap or narrow spaces. Got me however, using a broad Nov makes my handwriting worse than it already is. Hence, in many cases, the nib width is a result of your handwriting size our comfort. I also noticed that line variation can be more prominent that I have noticed. So in my opinion I don't think it is for noobs, however you should see which ever is most comfortable for you.

 

 

Nicholas I

[SockAddict]

I'm new to *collecting* pens (as opposed to amassing them without discernment), but I've been writing with them for 25+ years. So in this case, I don't think I'm a noob, but I still love the fine pens. I will say, though, that shading inks make me think I need to add one or two broader nibs to my collection. Just as soon as I figure out how I'd use them!

[FlyFast]

I've been using fountain pens for over 30 years and prefer Asian fine and extra fine nibs for daily use. Use the nibs that work for you.

[KBeezie]

PS: every so often ( I guess in terms of newer users ), I'll see mentions that getting a "smooth fine" is either too pricey or not available. Most of the fines and extra-fines I've used are plenty smooth... if it's been tuned for flow enough that you can write with a very light hand instead of applying some degree of pressure.

[discopig]

I think fine and extra fine nibs can be more appealing to people new to the hobby, since they'll write about the size of a ballpoint or rollerball pen. Then, after gaining more experience with fountain pens sometimes they'll realize they prefer much broader nibs, but in my case I still prefer very fine nibs and only use broads or cursive italics for specific tasks.

Edited December 23, 2014 by discopig

[KBeezie]

I think fine and extra fine nibs can be more appealing to people new to the hobby, since they'll write about the size of a ballpoint or rollerball pen. Then, after gaining more experience with fountain pens sometimes they'll realize they prefer much broader nibs, but in my case I still prefer very fine nibs and only use broads or cursive italics for specific tasks.

In my case, my fine nibs are much finer than most ballpoints or rollerballs. Western fine seems to be the limit for me (which is about as you described them).

[SockAddict]

In my case, my fine nibs are much finer than most ballpoints or rollerballs. Western fine seems to be the limit for me (which is about as you described them).

 

Yeah, when I start clearing the chaff out of my collection, I'll start with all the mediums!

[ac12]

First, I am a F nib write from YEARS ago. And depending on the pen, I would use an XF nib. So forget the idea of a particular nib size for a "beginner."

 

Issues:

• Your hand. When you write the lower case "e" and "l" is the loop open or closed. If it is closed, you need to either write larger or use a finer nib.
• Paper1. Depending on the paper you have to write on you could be space constrained. Example wide ruled vs college ruled. I need to use a smaller nib when writing on college ruled paper, as I have less vertical space than when writing on wide ruled paper. Forms can have "small" boxes, forcing you to use a smaller nib.
• Paper2. Paper texture affects the choice of nibs. A Fine or XF nib will follow the texture of the paper, creating a rough writing feeling. The wider M and B will glide over the finer textures, and give you a smoother writing feeling. IOW, for a F nib, you need to use smoother paper.

 

Get several Pilot 78Gs with different nibs, or a Lamy Safari/Al Star with a selection of nibs. This way you can try the different nibs and see what works FOR YOU in the various situations. Just be aware that nib sizes do not translate between brands. A Pilot F is finer than a Lamy F. Nib sizes are valid only within the same brand, and even then, current vs older/vintage nibs may not match up. The current Parker nibs are wider than the older/vintage Parker nibs, and I think same for the old Lamy nibs.

 

Note that the Pilot B and BB are actually stub nibs, not ball nibs. Having said that, I like the line variation that I get with my Lamy 1.1 nib (same as the Pilot B nib), it looks pretty cool. But, I need more space to use the 1.1 nib. I use it on wide ruled paper, or blank paper (where I'm not space constrained), I can't use it on college ruled paper (too cramped for space).

 

Some people like the B and italic nibs, because of the effect they can get out of the ink. Certain inks shades and sheen much better with a wider nib, which puts down a wider ink line.

 

So, in my case, I currently use every thing from XF, F, M, B and 1.1. What nib I use depends on what I am writing on and what I am writing.

 

You need to write a lot, with different size nibs, to see what size nibs YOU personally like.

So don't go trying to peg yourself to a nib size so fast.

 

gud luk

[______Zaphod_Beeblebrox]

Check out Sailor nibs

They have nibs like the "zoom" nib, the line weight can change depending on the angle it's held at.

They also have some custom nibs that are medium or broad but when flipped they write fine.

 

Check out the link here....

http://nibs.com/SailorSpecialtyNibs.htm

[KBeezie]

Check out Sailor nibs

They have nibs like the "zoom" nib, the line weight can change depending on the angle it's held at.

They also have some custom nibs that are medium or broad but when flipped they write fine.

 

Check out the link here....

http://nibs.com/SailorSpecialtyNibs.htm

I had the zoom nib on a 1911M, it it was 'alright' but I didn't care for it, wrote way too broadly for me at normal writing angles, to get fine and such you really have to be writing up high which is uncomfortable for me, and upside down writes more like a japanese EF. Also the way the nib is ground has too much of a chisel'd look on paper with certain inks.

[deepak23]

Imho the M is the noob nib. Nice and middle of the road. Most of the chinese pens come only in M.

Have been using FPs nearly all my life and over time have been moving away from M in both directions...After having been stuck in the Middle for years I discovered the pleasure of a F (via a Sailor 1911). My handwriting became steadier and had greater form. But then I wanted something that writes with a bit of flair. A B stub fit the bill perfectly and now I carry two pens one with an F and the other with a B stub.

[WaskiSquirrel]

I don't know if there really is a new person's nib. The old phrase is "different strokes for different folks." We all have our preferences.

 

For me, my nib preference comes down to what I'm doing. If I'm doing serious writing such as my novel, writing for school, taking notes, or correcting papers, I want a fine nib. For all purposes but the last I also want black ink.

 

For letter writing, brainstorming, embellishing my notes, and such, I enjoy the broader nibs and wider array of colors.

[transcend]

I suppose it's all about matching your pen with the right nib, and the pen is matched with it's purpose. The pen I bought was a Pelikan m605 in Fine. It's nib is a single tone and the pen is trimmed with iridium/rhodium so swapping with the interchangeable nibs isn't viable as they are all two tone and I would never be a part of such blasphemy, unless it was for experimental purposes in the name of progress, not convenience......

 

I'll stick with fine as this is a medium size pen and most of my applications are lists and reminders, rather than sit down-longhand-composition (thank god I'm not in the academic world... sorry but WHEW, i just got a nasty flashback). I like writing on small pads so I'll just match this pen and it's fine nib with that purpose.

 

In other words, I want a broad nib, but I think/hope I'm making the right call here with the Fine. A little chisel every now and then is awesome. My ink hates me for this, but screw my inkwell. It's fine tip for my ATH (all time high) fountain pen nib of choice. (right now)

 

And in conclusion, all non fine and non broad tips are henceforth garbage and for the real noobs.

 

Edited December 24, 2014 by transcend

[balson]

why not get a lamy safari? extra nibs are cheep and incredibly easy to switch out.

[KBeezie]

why not get a lamy safari? extra nibs are cheep and incredibly easy to switch out.

A Pilot 78G or Metropolitan with a Fine would be somewhat smaller (and half the price, and generally good right out the box)

[Bo Bo Olson]

Remember Japanese nibs are one width narrower than marked.

 

Yes you need an F nib and an M nib. So you need a Pelikan 200 which has a very, very good springy regular flex nib....as good as Semi-vintage or vintage regular flex.

 

Many modern nibs like the 400/600 (gold...fat and blobby too) and others are semi-nail.

 

I went from M to B and BB, getting F nibs only because the vintage make and model had that dratted F nib.

Slowly I came to like them. I do not care for western EF nibs=Japanese F.

 

Both F & M are good nibs for some shading inks....some shading inks are better in F&M than B or semi-flex. Some like a wider nib.

You can also get a B nib....a spare B or F nib costs @ $25 each with a Pelikan 200.

 

The M nib is very under rated. It is wide enough for rougher papers....it has a wider foot print making them easier to use....it is not over wide.

I developed a prejudice against a M nib here on this com....I broke it so"

MB Tofffee a brown shading ink.

F was light with dark trails.

M was 50-50!

B was dark with light trails.

Semi-flex was a bit wet.

 

You need good to better paper. It is easy enough to learn to write larger. You can get a free template and print thin lines for a F, medium lines for a M, and wide lines for a B.

 

 

You do need a nail EF or Japanese F....for real poor paper. Buy one of the cheaper Japanese pens for that.

 

The problem is with in a brand, much less out of it where each company has it's very own standards there is slop/tolerance with in the standard. A fat F can = a skinny M, or in any other width....and that is normal....

So if you order Pelikan nibs on line, do it from a nibmeister who can make sure your F, M and B are in the middle of the standard, and not at the edge. Then you have true sizes where you can see the difference in widths. An fat EF= a skinny F, a fat M= a skinny B.

 

When you have different brands....made to their standards only....widths becomes very approximate across the board. So you should not get too AR or you will have to send all your pens off to be ground to your very own standard...which is not any one else's.

Standards were set using a company's customers wishes. Parker did not make Sheaffer width nibs...or their customers could get all confused and buy a Sheaffer. Those standards were set back in the silver dollar days of One Man, One Pen.

 

I chase vintage and semi-vintage nibs in they are better than modern.

However the nibs of the 200 have really impressed me. I've trans-mailed some 6-7 from Germany to England, because some German idiots won't ship out of country or charge much too much to do so.

 

I don't have a 200, in I have so many 400's...six of them. (Two Celebry cartridge pens, with also great springy regular flex nibs.)

I will buy a heavier 215, in I like that pen, and it has a very good springy regular flex nib, of the 200.

Because of the nibs, I'm very high on the 200....not high at all on the modern 400/600.

 

This is for later, Vintage Semi-flex is more springy than good springy regular flex...sort of springy ++. Can be had in Vintage Pelikan, (Penboard de.) in they fit a 200 also.

 

 

Do remember to hold a fountain pen lightly, like a featherless baby bird.

Don't make baby bird paste.

In that a fountain pen tip, floats on a small puddle of ink, no pressure is needed to write.

Do hold the fountain pen behind the big index knuckle, not before it like a ball point.

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink, and in that order.

So do get good to better paper, which costs a couple cans of Coke or Starbucks coffee more than the basic 90g laser paper.

80g copy paper is not good enough for fountain pens if you wish to use shading inks.

Rhoda 80g is good fountain pen paper, but is hard to find as copy paper.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[transcend]

Both pilot metros i own write exactly the same tho they were bought a year apart, and they tend to embarrass everything else I own. And I hate everything about the pen until a few millimeters worth of writing. It is picky with some inks but it's very existence is unfair and quite offensive to the rest of my collection.

 

Its M tipped line is thinner than the F's on my lamy's and low end pelikans (m150 and 205). I think everyone knows that, but I've enjoyed comparing the lines under a couple loupes.

 

I know I prefer the 0.4mm line, it definitely suits my purposes, but broad tips are emblematic of the fountain pen. The print is more "fountain pen-y". the hand feel/ink flow, also, something more connected with FPs, and chiseling, well that's the area of the mechanical pencil, not the FP.

 

But I'm not a painter or musician either.

 

So I remain as conflicted as ever.

Edited December 25, 2014 by transcend

[transcend]

What is paramount isn't that my most prized FP be matched with a nib tip that is most characteristic of the FP or it's historic writing experience, but more so as an instrument to most expressively reflect writing character.

 

What tip do you think reflects your mood or can most accurately express subtle writing expressions most vividly?

Edited December 25, 2014 by transcend

[legume]

I prefer finer nibs because my main writing hobby is dip pens and Calligraphy. A broad nib makes my handwriting a blobby mess.

 

It seems that some people here are trying to correlate finer or broader nibs to some superior attribute the writer holds, but really it just has to do with your personal handwriting.

 

I mean obviously if you tend to write larger, a broader nib may suit you better, but I'm sure most people are capable of varying the size of their letters and will survive with a finer nib, and vice versa.

 

But if a broad nib is what you prefer anyway, well that's not surprising. We simply have our preferences.

 

It may also have to do with what you want to see of the ink you're using. I love sheen and shading and it may be nice to see more using a broad nib, but a fine is just more comfortable. I save that for my dip pens rather than try to force it out of my fountain pens.

Edited December 25, 2014 by legume

[DonLeone]

A fine or an extra fine western nib is usually what beginners start off with. All the people I know who got (back) into FPs are sporting EF or F nibs and I only gift EF or F nibs. I'm usually the one to get them into FPs, in fact I don't know anyone who already was into FPs before I met them. So their first pen is usually one picked by me with the primary purpose of being a workhorse every day writing pen with character, perfect for their hand and every day needs.

 

EF and F nibs, western nibsize that is, are perfect for that.

 

Let's take students for example:

 

Students need EF or F due to session length. A lecture takes between 50 minutes and 2 hours before a break. Exam pens generally need converter-sized ink reservoirs or large cartridge in reservoirs and a fine enough nib to be economical in terms of time vs ink supply.

 

So this could be called "ink economy": How much mileage you get out of a full gas tank. EF and F nibs, by default, use less ink.

 

Besides ink economy, they also need to be able to write large amounts of text, quickly, in short bursts. Teacher says something important, need to get it down fast. Answering a question in an exam, time is of high importance. If you're writing and the feed can't keep up, that's a problem. Not sure if I can keep my automotive analogy going. Carburators? Fuel injection?

 

The "ink supply" or feed saturation or whatever, allowed the pen to keep writing because the line put down is small. Try writing incredibly fast with an italic or broad nib. After a bit the feed needs to catch up, unless, of course, you have a good feed that keeps the nib wet.

 

Then you have the "space economy". On a piece of paper, be it for note taking, annotating in a book, or writing in the small designated square on an exam, smaller is better.

 

EF or F nibs are the supreme dear leaders of these types of situations. And a pro, as opposed to a "noob", will likely have a few EF or F nibbed pens laying around, most likely inked, in case they're needed.

 

"Noobs" may start out using one but pros used them too.